Ecclestone: no qualms over British GP axe

[toomuchbeer]

So, he's off again, but, in this day and age, with the very much publised economic downturn in the world economy, surely the fee's that each country pay (ie the promotors) will become increasingley hard to find.

linky to story

SO, does anybody know how much Ecclestone requires in order to bring the F1 circus to town? and is he starting to outprice himself?

[Ahonen]

Change the record, Bernie; you've been playing it for over ten years now.

F1 will become even more surreal in future. Bernard Charles wants to hold the races in random 3rd world countries, yet they'll have to be staged at night so that the European TV audience can watch them at a reasonable hour...

[kevin ritson]

Timed to tie into the new deal the circuit is cutting to raise cash.

Problem is, the 'deal' isn't what we need - it involves, amongst other things, a housing estate. So you can say goodbye to the 24-hour Britcar race, GTs, Touring Cars, Historic racing, trackdays...in fact anything apart from the GP and then the circuit will only be open for two hours, no helicopter access and one road in and out within a 20 mile radius. You think the rulings over Castle Combe and Monza were tough....that's nothing compared to Silverstone in 10 years' time...

[stockhatcher]

i can't say i am particularly bothered if we loose the gp or not. i've been twice in the last 16 years - that's enough. I'd rather watch it on tele.

i genuinely think there could be some benefit to not having the gp in at silverstone in terms of lower costs for the club competitor.

[johnph]

kevin ritson said:

Timed to tie into the new deal the circuit is cutting to raise cash.

Problem is, the 'deal' isn't what we need - it involves, amongst other things, a housing estate. So you can say goodbye to the 24-hour Britcar race, GTs, Touring Cars, Historic racing, trackdays...in fact anything apart from the GP and then the circuit will only be open for two hours, no helicopter access and one road in and out within a 20 mile radius. You think the rulings over Castle Combe and Monza were tough....that's nothing compared to Silverstone in 10 years' time...

I think the BRDC would have thought about that, probably put some clause in the contracts saying 'there is a race track, there will be noise'.

[kevin ritson]

stockhatcher said:

i can't say i am particularly bothered if we loose the gp or not. i've been twice in the last 16 years - that's enough. I'd rather watch it on tele.

i genuinely think there could be some benefit to not having the gp in at silverstone in terms of lower costs for the club competitor.

Any benefit would be outweighed by the massive blow to the industry and the gradual migration to other countries. At least in the current climate you can race at several other circuits instead

[Muzzer]

The problem is basically that Ecclestone has a licence to print money because of the car manufacturers in F1.

They're torn between the 'heritage' of circuits like Silverstone, Monza and Spa and the fact that in countries like India, China and Singapore they want to sell more cars and therefore have a higher profile.

Bernie knows that if Silverstone can't write a cheque for the amount he wants, another country will and in business money walks....

It used to be about facilities and access - I went to the GP in 2000 and it really was a farce. You couldn't get in, it was a mudbath, and my Dad wouldn't use the bog for fear of dysentry. I vowed then never to return unless in hospitality.

However, I was persuaded back in 2005 and was pleasantly amazed. It was clean, perfectly acceptable conditions and in both 2005 and 2006 I encountered one traffic queue around the circuit (Exiting on race day)

Now Silverstonehave got their act together and developed the place a bit it's all about cash to 'buy' the race.

Bernie uses his Olympics excuse - we're spending billions on that so why can't we drop 10% of that into his pocket for the GP. Horse sh1t. The Olympics will attract a worldwide audience of billions and necessitates a different world of organisation and facilities. F1, whilst popular, reaches a fraction of the audience and as such cannot be mentioned in the same league event-wise.

Sorry for the rambling post. It just gets my goat that Ecclestone only takes the commercial view of a sport he's been in for 4 decades instead of attracting new races and preserving the great circuits aswell.

Trust me - it's Silverstone now but in 10 years time we could have lost both Monza and Spa (we almost have already) There'll be one 'European' grand prix and the rest will cover the globe.

Why not give the teams a say where they race on a open vote?

[Galileo]

stockhatcher said:

i can't say i am particularly bothered if we loose the gp or not. i've been twice in the last 16 years - that's enough. I'd rather watch it on tele.

i genuinely think there could be some benefit to not having the gp in at silverstone in terms of lower costs for the club competitor.

Yes indeed, but, club racers only like racing there because of the kudos of racing on the 'same' track as the F1 greats. They put up with making do with the club curcuit because of this kudos. Take away the GP and the glamour and any benefit to the club racer go with it. Cos lets face it, Silverstone club curcuit is really boring in comparison to other club curcuits.

[belleair302]

I am not so sure Singapore is a good car market....Mercedes sold under 200 cas there last year and buying a car there is far from simple. You need to buy a license first then pay 120% duty on a car!! Point taken re China, India, Dubai etc.

CVC who own F1 are struggling to repay their borrowings and cannot afford to lose GP's, and countries are not currently willing to pay $22 million for a two year deal. Silverstone will stay otherwise 5 or more teams will lose so much support and revenue from ITV and its advertising.

The programme sponsors Honda have not renewed their contract and the price for the bumper ads has fallen.

Its all politics and Bernie enjoying some PR when rugby, soccer, cricket and the NFL are dominating the news.

[kevin ritson]

Muzzer said:

Bernie uses his Olympics excuse - we're spending billions on that so why can't we drop 10% of that into his pocket for the GP. Horse sh1t. The Olympics will attract a worldwide audience of billions and necessitates a different world of organisation and facilities. F1, whilst popular, reaches a fraction of the audience and as such cannot be mentioned in the same league event-wise.

Wrong - global F1 audiences compare to both the Olympics and the World Cup. They also take place 16-18 times a year as opposed to once every 4 years. Bernie's 'excuse' is perfectly valid - after the Olympics the facilities will have limited use, whereas a world class Silverstone will be hosting GPs for decades and keeping a vital UK industry functioning.

[Leithen]

Sadly the economics just don't add up. Gate receipts + Hot Dogs - Running costs does not = £7m+

Meantime Hospitality + TV Revenue + 7m+ = rip off.

[stockhatcher]

Galileo said:

stockhatcher said:

i can't say i am particularly bothered if we loose the gp or not. i've been twice in the last 16 years - that's enough. I'd rather watch it on tele.

i genuinely think there could be some benefit to not having the gp in at silverstone in terms of lower costs for the club competitor.

Yes indeed, but, club racers only like racing there because of the kudos of racing on the 'same' track as the F1 greats. They put up with making do with the club curcuit because of this kudos. Take away the GP and the glamour and any benefit to the club racer go with it. Cos lets face it, Silverstone club curcuit is really boring in comparison to other club curcuits.

i wasn;t just thinking about silverstone, more the fact that silverstone uses the fact that it hosts the BGP to charge top dollar to the motor clubs who hire the circuit, and then if the 'stone is 25k then brands can be 20K, donny 20K. its sets the bar, and is too high as it has to fund the gp.

i am also not certain that loosing the gp is the thin end of the wedge and that the teams will migrate to asia or wherever, if 600 people work at williams, then you are not going to persuade all of them to move to china or dubai.

so in summary, if we can get it at a fair price great, other wise good riddance ( to BCE )

[Graham]

Galileo said:

Yes indeed, but, club racers only like racing there because of the kudos of racing on the 'same' track as the F1 greats. They put up with making do with the club curcuit because of this kudos. Take away the GP and the glamour and any benefit to the club racer go with it. Cos lets face it, Silverstone club curcuit is really boring in comparison to other club curcuits.

Actually I dont give a toss about the Kudos that F1 gives silverstone, racing on the club circuit, which you rightly say is crap isnt worth putting up with. I'd happily not go to silverstone at all if all we get is the club circuit..

[Piglet]

Galileo said:

stockhatcher said:

i can't say i am particularly bothered if we loose the gp or not. i've been twice in the last 16 years - that's enough. I'd rather watch it on tele.

i genuinely think there could be some benefit to not having the gp in at silverstone in terms of lower costs for the club competitor.

Yes indeed, but, club racers only like racing there because of the kudos of racing on the 'same' track as the F1 greats. They put up with making do with the club curcuit because of this kudos. Take away the GP and the glamour and any benefit to the club racer go with it. Cos lets face it, Silverstone club curcuit is really boring in comparison to other club curcuits.

Actually that's not proven, neither is the "track day draw" that folks like to do track days at Silverstone because of the GP. They are both factors but they aren't enough to justify the cost to the BRDC of paying for a GP.

The BRDC is a company limited by guarantee - it's "not for profit", their aim is to further grass roots motorsport within the UK. There are many people who know that the risk to the BRDC of paying for and running GP's is huge - they could lose everything and let's guess who'd be waiting with his wallet open to take over....

My view has changed over the last 10 years, I don't think it's worth the BRDC risking everything for a short term contract - how long exactly is the contract on offer? Bernie's companies operate on short term contracts - how do you justify multi-millon pound investments on five year contracts?

I hope the BRDC tell him to walk - I don't think the risk is worth it - there is money to be made from GP's, but unfortunately most of it goes into the pocket of one of the established companies...

[thunderbelmont]

IIRC, the last time he threatened it, there was a war of words with the BRDC who said they'd run their own non-FIA series with a number of other circuits, and teams like Williams, McLaren, AND Ferrari all said "yep, we'd come and play in your field, because it would be cheaper for us to do that than keep jetting off to the other side of the world, when we're all based here"

Suddenly, some middle ground was found, and the BRDC & FOM signed up for a deal to 2009.

I feel a similar deal is going to happen again.

I very much doubt that Captain Darling, and General Melchet, err I mean Chancellor Darling, and President Brown, would allow any money to be spent on Silverstone from government coffers. They are more likely to get all politically "windy" and say that industry should chip in and pay.

In some ways you could say that they are right. F1 is worth many billions of pounds in revenue, much of it going to SLEC, and they could affort to give Silverstone 20 or 30million to bulldoze and start again (for the third time in the last 20 years).

They (the government) are starting to squeal over the amount of money the Olympics is going to cost them as the planners way underestimated it (as they do!).

I can't see why Silverstone is always singled out by Bernie. He let Imola carry on un-altered for years with it's totally useless pit complex - there's more space at Brands Hatch in the inner paddock! It's had a major re-work now, but it's still tiny compared to Silverstone.

[flemke]

thunderbelmont said:

IIRC, the last time he threatened it, there was a war of words with the BRDC who said they'd run their own non-FIA series with a number of other circuits, and teams like Williams, McLaren, AND Ferrari all said "yep, we'd come and play in your field, because it would be cheaper for us to do that than keep jetting off to the other side of the world, when we're all based here"

Suddenly, some middle ground was found, and the BRDC & FOM signed up for a deal to 2009.

I feel a similar deal is going to happen again.

I very much doubt that Captain Darling, and General Melchet, err I mean Chancellor Darling, and President Brown, would allow any money to be spent on Silverstone from government coffers. They are more likely to get all politically "windy" and say that industry should chip in and pay.

In some ways you could say that they are right. F1 is worth many billions of pounds in revenue, much of it going to SLEC, and they could affort to give Silverstone 20 or 30million to bulldoze and start again (for the third time in the last 20 years).

They (the government) are starting to squeal over the amount of money the Olympics is going to cost them as the planners way underestimated it (as they do!).

I can't see why Silverstone is always singled out by Bernie. He let Imola carry on un-altered for years with it's totally useless pit complex - there's more space at Brands Hatch in the inner paddock! It's had a major re-work now, but it's still tiny compared to Silverstone.

That is not to mention Monaco's complete absence of a paddock. But then again, that's "special" - although one is still waiting for a creditable explanation of why it's supposed to be special (apart from the fact that it's a tax haven for a number of F1 big shots, such as Mosley).

As for gov't handouts, as they were not forthcoming a few years ago when the Treasury was flush, there is no way that Gordy will be handing anything out now that he's skint.

[Ordinary Bloke]

He is the drug dealer hanging around outside the school, you F1 supporters are his 'clients', he has the drug which you want/need sooooo badly.

FFS who wants to watch the 'pitstops and lawyers' racing show?

[Nicholas Blair]

Money,money,money.

[ph123]

The other side to this is that many of us feel with so many GP teams based in the UK, it's pretty vital for the UK economy and automotive enterprise (which we're world leading at), that we retain a GP in the UK.
I cannot believe however, with so many GP teams UK-based, there won't be a real feeling of revolt within the GP world itself, if the British GP/Silverstone race left here.
But it's simple supply and demand; more countries in the world will stump up the cash to hold a GP, than there are weekends to hold them; the weakest will go.
Personally and as a BRDC member, as much as a shame it would be, in some respects I wish BE would go elsewhere. The BRDC are spending all it can lay it's hands on in order to upgrade Silverstone, but when it's finished, there's no guarantee that the GP will stay here. What a bloody stupid waste of money & effort that could turn out to be. We've been through this constant cycle of threat/promise/upgrade spend threat/promise/upgrade spend before at Silverstone.
Neither can I get my head around the fact that BE expects the UK government to stump up and support GP World, when year after year he sits atop a list of the most super wealthy folk in the world. There's a direct correlation between UK government cash and BE's bank & pockets which is unavoidable, so BE is hoisted.
But that in fact, imho is what has to happen if the UK is to retain it's place in GP world and as a world sporting power. Sure they stump up for the Olympics amateur sport; but it’s a bit of different question how you provide support for a local benefit with commercially strong sport like motor racing - and now football. Providing good local infrastructure only goes so far.
Perhaps as we've now got Wembly, then the Olympics, m/racing will come after that (less votes!).

[Piglet]

ph123, do you know and can you say what length contract is on offer post 2009?