To anybody who asks if these cars are expensive beasts...

[skoff]

Well they are...

Just got the car (4.2 '96) back from it's 12K service. Had loads of other bits and bobs done including a couple of new tyres, rear shocks, and some other stuff, and the bill...

Well, £2,700 there or there abouts... That's pretty much my car budget for the year now, so here's hoping that will give me a good year before any more major expense, and hopefully the next time will be a bit cheaper.

Is it worth it??? Hell yes!!! The car is driving loads better, and it's a nice feeling to know it has been treated the way it deserves.

A big thanks and a thumbs up in praise of Dulfords - Richard kept me informed all the way through the process and gave me all the options and some good advice.

Finally to anybody who sees these cars for sale at the low prices that they now seem to be, and thinks 'hey I could about afford to buy one of them' please think again and consider the running costs. You need to look after these cars, and they ain't cheap.

[ridds]

Indeed, but I can fit shocks and tyes and not pay someone £40 per hour to do it. Hence I save a little money.

[dean_ratpac]

2500 is expensive, i have many a bill from the past 3 cerbs I've owned doubling that from a "service". I've been looking at my lever arch file of previous owner costs, some are ludicrous for easy fixes that you can do yourself.
i might when i have time to add the file up to see roughly how much has been spent on it.

they're hell of a lot cheaper to run now than a few years ago. dealers were extortionate ££££££

the only thing that winds me up is the price of fuel!

don't get me started!

[Tyre Smoke]

dean_ratpac said:

2500 is expensive, i have many a bill from the past 3 cerbs I've owned doubling that from a "service". I've been looking at my lever arch file of previous owner costs, some are ludicrous for easy fixes that you can do yourself.
i might when i have time to add the file up to see roughly how much has been spent on it.

they're hell of a lot cheaper to run now than a few years ago. dealers were extortionate ££££££

the only thing that winds me up is the price of fuel!

don't get me started!

I can verify that if Richard Smith of Dulford did £2700 worth of work, then it would cost at least £3500+ anywhere else. The man is not in the business of ripping people off.

[grahamn]

Mines in at the moment for 12K service, chassis waxoil, slave cylinder, oil leak, diff bushes and a few other odds and sods estimated £2600 the last time I spoke to them.

If the other half is reading this then I miss typed it should have been £260.

[marcus1970]

grahamn said:

Mines in at the moment for 12K service, chassis waxoil, slave cylinder, oil leak, diff bushes and a few other odds and sods estimated £2600 the last time I spoke to them.

If the other half is reading this then I miss typed it should have been £260.

A 12k service should be around £600 to £900. What other bits are costing £1700?

I'd be mighty hacked off if it went in for a 12k and I ended up with a bill like that.

MB

[BLUETHUNDER]

With a Cerb,its my belief to be handy with the spanners.Do what you can by yourself,saving the electrical stuff.I.e engine management throttle pots etc to a specialist.Unless you can do that yourself as well,which i cant.

[grahamn]

marcus1970 said:

grahamn said:

Mines in at the moment for 12K service, chassis waxoil, slave cylinder, oil leak, diff bushes and a few other odds and sods estimated £2600 the last time I spoke to them.

If the other half is reading this then I miss typed it should have been £260.

A 12k service should be around £600 to £900. What other bits are costing £1700?

I'd be mighty hacked off if it went in for a 12k and I ended up with a bill like that.

MB

When I get the bill I will let you know.

[Byker28i]

I dunno, I had a 2K bill for Nitrons (£1k), Steve Heath droplinks, poly bushes, radiator recore/rebuild, AC rad recore/rebuild, stainless water manifold, water pipes, a few other little things, labour & the dreaded vat.

Now none of that strictly needed doing but they would have done sometime in the nearish future. Rather than risk the cars reliability and wilst it was apart for the shocks/AirCon rebuild it made sense to do the other bits at the same time.

Mines just gone in for the 12k service and Lambda 2 reading 0 volts - I'll let you know also.

Although I think I may have a cat disintegrating with the dodgy fueling. I was shooting 20-25 foot sparks from the exhaust

[marcus1970]

grahamn said:

marcus1970 said:

grahamn said:

Mines in at the moment for 12K service, chassis waxoil, slave cylinder, oil leak, diff bushes and a few other odds and sods estimated £2600 the last time I spoke to them.

If the other half is reading this then I miss typed it should have been £260.

A 12k service should be around £600 to £900. What other bits are costing £1700?

I'd be mighty hacked off if it went in for a 12k and I ended up with a bill like that.

MB

When I get the bill I will let you know.

Surely you can't be telling me that the car has gone in for a service say £800, waxoyl say £150, oil leak an hour to investigate £40 and then let you know, slave cylinder £200, diff bushes £200 icluding fitting = around £1400, and the garage has found £1300 quids worth of bits. I'd be banging on the door asking what the fecks' the other £1300 for, the garage should be updating you bit by bit - it seems they are just adding on things that they consider need doing. What was the garage ?

I'd be worried unless of course money is no object.

MB

[marcus1970]

Byker28i said:

I dunno, I had a 2K bill for Nitrons (£1k), Steve Heath droplinks, poly bushes, radiator recore/rebuild, AC rad recore/rebuild, stainless water manifold, water pipes, a few other little things, labour & the dreaded vat.

Now none of that strictly needed doing but they would have done sometime in the nearish future. Rather than risk the cars reliability and wilst it was apart for the shocks/AirCon rebuild it made sense to do the other bits at the same time.

Mines just gone in for the 12k service and Lambda 2 reading 0 volts - I'll let you know also.

Although I think I may have a cat disintegrating with the dodgy fueling. I was shooting 20-25 foot sparks from the exhaust

Yes, but the stuff you have lsited is expensive and then needed fitting. 2k sounds about right, as long as they are keeping you updated as you go along. I'd be peeved off if it went in for Nitrons and then the bill came in with all the other bits on, if I hadn't asked / agreed to them.

MB

[skoff]

marcus1970 said:

grahamn said:

Mines in at the moment for 12K service, chassis waxoil, slave cylinder, oil leak, diff bushes and a few other odds and sods estimated £2600 the last time I spoke to them.

If the other half is reading this then I miss typed it should have been £260.

A 12k service should be around £600 to £900. What other bits are costing £1700?

I'd be mighty hacked off if it went in for a 12k and I ended up with a bill like that.

MB

Ok, here goes... My £2700 (which incidentally is inc of VAT) included:

Parts over and above service stuff (about £600):
Rear Shocks
Air filter
Suspension bushes
2 front tyres

Labour (about £1700 in time and £400 in bits and non service stuff):
12K service inc valve clearances
MOT
Fitting Child seat adapter frame
Brake calipers removed, nipples drilled (ouch!) and replaced
Replaced brake pads all round and hoses replaced (parts supplied by me)
Steering rack oil leak fixed
Sump hose oil leak fixed
Diff oil leak fixed
4 wheel geometry check and setup
Strip front suspension and replace wishbone bushes
Replace rear shocks and adjust ride height
Small weld to chassis
Aircon re-gas
Washer hose replaced (could have done that myself I suppose)
Repair heater ecu

So that's about it. To be honest it was quite a bit more than I was expecting before I took it in, but it transpired there was quite a bit of work that needed doing and it seemed right to do it all whilst it was in bits anyway. There isn't that much I would have atamted myself on that list as I am not that good with a spanner and don't have a garage with enough space to work on the car, and leaving it outside in bits is not an option!

Whilst it's a good deal of money, I do believe it's worth looking after these cars, and whilst I could have bought a half decent car for the £2700 it cost me I had my eyes open when I bought the car and want it to be what's commonly described on here as 'a good un'... And that I suppose costs money...

And once again I should say that Richard consulted me all the way along and I was fully aware of work that was being done and the costs involved. I think they did a good job, and I don't think I was ripped off - though I guess that's just my opinion as a non mechanic...

[ff5317]

Dropped mine off today for what should have been a 12k service in a couple of weeks time, bloody thing decided to divest itself of water and that coupled to a few other niggles means I took it in early and am now expecting a somewhat hefty bill for its return.

[FarmyardPants]

Skoff: all fair and above board (though I wouldn't have let them drill my nipples as well )

MB: I think you underestimated some costs (eg slave cylinder).None of the above sounds as outrageous as your posts seem to suggest. I hope you have a trouble-free year now. Sometimes a year's budget goes in one hit, c'est la vie!

Good to hear of people lavishing care on their cars - you get what you pay for and then some, IMO.

[marcus1970]

Farmyardpants.

Now that I have seen the list I would say that the price sounds nearer what I would expect.

The original post said a few bits and a few bits would be expensive at £1300.

As it is it still sounds quite pricey when you consider that they are charging £40 an hour.

I'd be more in favour if garages gave fixed price jobs, then it takes however long it takes not however long we think it might take.

Eg starter motor fixed price fitting £60. Then if they know they're onions it should take an hour and they make £20. If they take 3 hours due to inexperience or whatever then we don't have to fork out £120.

MB

[Byker28i]

I use Neil Garner - always been more than fair, so he gets my repeat business

[bosscerbera]

marcus1970 said:

Stuff about how cheap repairs should be

All garages worth their salt will provide an estimate before they start work, ideally with an inspection to assess the job. Cerberas are getting old and the variance in quality is getting wider and wider. Some of the self-, poorly- and/or cheaply-maintained cars are turning into money pits. The price you'll get quoted reflects the amount of work that needs doing, simple as that. If you doubt the advice you're given before the job starts, ask to be shown.

It's your car - it's not the garage's responsibility to subsidise the maintenance of your car. If it's rotten and beset with seized parts etc., take a long hard look at whoever was supposed to be 'maintaining' it every 6K/year. The proper service schedule runs to over 40 items for a reason. Ditto the 6,000 miles OR ANNUAL requirement.

I've seen cars that have been Waxoyl'd at home or on the cheap, with the stuff plastered straight over the rust and more often than not missing from the places that actually matter. If you have any sense you get someone who knows what they're doing to prepare and inspect the chassis properly, advise as necessary and do a thorough job of applying the Waxoyl. Stating £150 for a Waxoyl is misleading - on a clean well-maintained car, it can be as little as £100 all in but it can take an awful lot longer on a car that's been neglected or badly done previously. The worst Cerbera I've ever seen (a 2000 car) actually looked like a show-stopper with immaculate paint and an unblemished interior. Its chassis was so bad it had to be replaced.

Diff bushes... It's not unusual for the two side bushes (that can be put in a press) to require 30 tonnes of pressure, repeatedly, to dislodge them and 20 tonnes or more to shove them through the holes. The bastard one up near the fuel tank needs the same amount of effort - but without a press - to extract. As the cars get older this job gets worse. £200? I should coco.

Cerberas are 190mph cars that have become ridiculously cheap to buy, and they need more time spent on them (i.e. labour cost) now than they ever did when they were a £50K+ current model. The increased risk of bigger maintenance bills is why prestige cars depreciate. Promoting the idea they can be run for buttons is worrying. Nothing wrong with competent DIY or shopping around for a deal but it's your car, your residual value and potentially your life on the line.

[Ireland]

bosscerbera said:

.....Nothing wrong with competent DIY or shopping around for a deal but it's your car, your residual value and potentially your life on the line.

That says it all, doesn't it?

[bosscerbera]

JensenA said:

Well said Phil - The Cerb is not a car that you can maintain yourself just because your a Mechanic. They need looking after by people who know what they are doing. It's a blisteringly fast 190mph supercar, and it needs to be 'Right'.
I was crusing along at about 70 in my old comfy Legend once, a car pulled alongside pipped his horn and pointed down towards my front wheel, I pulled over and I had a flat tyre - I hadn't even noticed. What point am I making? Well you can have a Cerb that might just have something simple wrong with it like the tracking out by a few degrees, and one day you put put your foot down and..............the car spins and your dead! And if people can't see that, then thy don't deserve to have a Cerb.

Quite, reminds me of a sad tale.

A couple of years ago a local general car trader had a fairly ropey Cerbera on his books and brought it into SP for a check-up. He was none too pleased with the list of works required (he'd paid too much for the car) and demanded the minimum of work be done before sale. It had different tyre wear across axles, the geo was a mile out (it drove like a shopping trolley) and it wanted lots of niggly (but time-consuming) bits doing. The trader didn't want any of it done. The car sold to someone enthusiastic but clearly at the outer limits of their finances ("Whoopee, we've bought a Cerb&quot. They didn't want the work done either. They probably spent more on AutoGlym stuff than maintenance in the next couple of months. Those couple of months was how long they had the car: it fell off the road on a wet night and was written off. Luckily the occupants survived. All the usual "it just stepped out" and "I wasn't even going fast" twaddle was put forward.

I don't think Cerberas are expensive to run for what they are. If "what they are" is no more than a £10K car to somebody then I suppose they could be viewed as a ruinously expensive car to run. "What they are" to me is a hand-made supercar and the odd four-figure bill is par for the course - and they really aren't that bad if you keep on top of them.

[dinkel]

I just asked Ben Speak: Any idea how many - or how few - PROPER Cerbera's are around?

Bad maintainance / neglect is a rotter for any car. Just look what Rari-folk have to pay to have their fun with their cars.