ABS how important for first bike
Discussion
I can see it's use but I've never owned a bike with it so don't miss it (but the Triumph's drum brakes have the same effect)
Learning to read the road conditions and traffic much more important. The level of feedback on a bike is so much greater than that in most cars so learning to deal with all that is the real trick to surviving.
Learning to read the road conditions and traffic much more important. The level of feedback on a bike is so much greater than that in most cars so learning to deal with all that is the real trick to surviving.
Is it essential? - No
Is it worth the extra money/weight/complexity? - YES
I've had it on many bikes and in about 15 years of riding with ABS I've used it 'for real' about 3 times. On each of those occasions, had I not had ABS I would have had an accident so it's saved me more times than my helmet, leathers, boots, gloves, back protector etc., yet suggest riding without any of the above kit (where legal) and you will get told that you must be stupid!
Is it worth the extra money/weight/complexity? - YES
I've had it on many bikes and in about 15 years of riding with ABS I've used it 'for real' about 3 times. On each of those occasions, had I not had ABS I would have had an accident so it's saved me more times than my helmet, leathers, boots, gloves, back protector etc., yet suggest riding without any of the above kit (where legal) and you will get told that you must be stupid!
I have it on my first bike a Ducati ST4S, saved my butt once already when a prat turned across me in the wet I just grabbed a big handful the abs came on and I stopped with 1 metre to spare
The Ducati ABS is different to the linked systems from Honda etc, both front and rear are independently controlled, think it is the Bosch system
The Ducati ABS is different to the linked systems from Honda etc, both front and rear are independently controlled, think it is the Bosch system
As a "get you out alive" tool, ABS is fantastic.
As a "my first bike" device however, ABS is not such a good idea.
ABS takes away a lot of the need for feel, skill and finesse; you simple "grab a handfull" and the electronic brain does the rest.
Okay, fine; gets me out alive, that's what I've paid for.
But what happens when you then get on a bike without ABS?
If you've never had to learn the desired skills then the first time you need to stop in an emergency it has a much increased potential to go "Pete Tong.".
I teach DAS courses on CBF 500's (with ABS), but never actually mention the ABS to the student. If anyone ever asks I tell them it's only there to save their ass if they make a mess of things.
To me it's much more important that the rider is actually conscious of their level of braking in relation to their level of grip, and adjusts it accordingly.
As a "my first bike" device however, ABS is not such a good idea.
ABS takes away a lot of the need for feel, skill and finesse; you simple "grab a handfull" and the electronic brain does the rest.
Okay, fine; gets me out alive, that's what I've paid for.
But what happens when you then get on a bike without ABS?
If you've never had to learn the desired skills then the first time you need to stop in an emergency it has a much increased potential to go "Pete Tong.".
I teach DAS courses on CBF 500's (with ABS), but never actually mention the ABS to the student. If anyone ever asks I tell them it's only there to save their ass if they make a mess of things.
To me it's much more important that the rider is actually conscious of their level of braking in relation to their level of grip, and adjusts it accordingly.
Rubin215 said:
As a "my first bike" device however, ABS is not such a good idea.
ABS takes away a lot of the need for feel, skill and finesse; you simple "grab a handfull" and the electronic brain does the rest.
Sorry, but I totally disagree with the comment about first bikes. I have never "fired off" the ABS without knowing it has happened so I have always been aware that ‘I have now gone beyond the limits of grip’. With ABS, inexperienced 'newbies' have an extra safety barrier that will help ensure that when they do panic and grab a fistful of front brake in the wet, they are likely to remain upright and hopefully have enough time and control to sort the problem. They will then go home in one piece, change to fresh underwear, and accept that they pushed the front brake too hard. Without ABS they end up hitting the tarmac immediately after the front wheel wash out and, if lucky, will get away with a lesson in body surfing.ABS takes away a lot of the need for feel, skill and finesse; you simple "grab a handfull" and the electronic brain does the rest.
Never ridden a bike with ABS so I wouldn't think it's essential on a first bike, although my first bike had 'anti-lock' brakes (drums that wouldn't lock coz they were shite).
I'm not sure a first time rider should be thinking of braking so hard to 'need' ABS and, even more so than with a car, I think it's good to learn the traditional way.
I'm not sure a first time rider should be thinking of braking so hard to 'need' ABS and, even more so than with a car, I think it's good to learn the traditional way.
black-k1 said:
Rubin215 said:
As a "my first bike" device however, ABS is not such a good idea.
ABS takes away a lot of the need for feel, skill and finesse; you simple "grab a handfull" and the electronic brain does the rest.
Sorry, but I totally disagree with the comment about first bikes. I have never "fired off" the ABS without knowing it has happened so I have always been aware that ‘I have now gone beyond the limits of grip’. With ABS, inexperienced 'newbies' have an extra safety barrier that will help ensure that when they do panic and grab a fistful of front brake in the wet, they are likely to remain upright and hopefully have enough time and control to sort the problem. They will then go home in one piece, change to fresh underwear, and accept that they pushed the front brake too hard. Without ABS they end up hitting the tarmac immediately after the front wheel wash out and, if lucky, will get away with a lesson in body surfing.ABS takes away a lot of the need for feel, skill and finesse; you simple "grab a handfull" and the electronic brain does the rest.
Knowing that the ABS has gone off is retrospective (stable door, horse, etc), whereas it would be nice to think pro-actively and prevent it happening in the first place.
Proper instruction includes recognising the symptoms of a tyre letting go and the suitable corrective actions to take.
Proper instruction also gives the student the skill and ability to make sure they don't panic and grab a fistfull in the first place.
In seven years of teaching, I've never once had a student wash out the front wheel, let alone go body surfing!
Maybe you should go back to your bike school and ask for the rest of your course...
how damn hard do you have to brake to make the front lock though? ive stopped faster than i thought i could a few times due prats/misreading the road/etc and never locked a front wheel.
actually thinking about it, last week, wet road & about 10mph filtering when a daft bat walked out from behind a van the front locked just before i stopped, but thats the only time in 40k.
actually thinking about it, last week, wet road & about 10mph filtering when a daft bat walked out from behind a van the front locked just before i stopped, but thats the only time in 40k.
Rubin215 said:
black-k1 said:
Rubin215 said:
As a "my first bike" device however, ABS is not such a good idea.
ABS takes away a lot of the need for feel, skill and finesse; you simple "grab a handfull" and the electronic brain does the rest.
Sorry, but I totally disagree with the comment about first bikes. I have never "fired off" the ABS without knowing it has happened so I have always been aware that ‘I have now gone beyond the limits of grip’. With ABS, inexperienced 'newbies' have an extra safety barrier that will help ensure that when they do panic and grab a fistful of front brake in the wet, they are likely to remain upright and hopefully have enough time and control to sort the problem. They will then go home in one piece, change to fresh underwear, and accept that they pushed the front brake too hard. Without ABS they end up hitting the tarmac immediately after the front wheel wash out and, if lucky, will get away with a lesson in body surfing.ABS takes away a lot of the need for feel, skill and finesse; you simple "grab a handfull" and the electronic brain does the rest.
Knowing that the ABS has gone off is retrospective (stable door, horse, etc), whereas it would be nice to think pro-actively and prevent it happening in the first place.
Proper instruction includes recognising the symptoms of a tyre letting go and the suitable corrective actions to take.
Proper instruction also gives the student the skill and ability to make sure they don't panic and grab a fistfull in the first place.
In seven years of teaching, I've never once had a student wash out the front wheel, let alone go body surfing!
Maybe you should go back to your bike school and ask for the rest of your course...
John.
Rubin215 said:
black-k1 said:
Rubin215 said:
As a "my first bike" device however, ABS is not such a good idea.
ABS takes away a lot of the need for feel, skill and finesse; you simple "grab a handfull" and the electronic brain does the rest.
Sorry, but I totally disagree with the comment about first bikes. I have never "fired off" the ABS without knowing it has happened so I have always been aware that ‘I have now gone beyond the limits of grip’. With ABS, inexperienced 'newbies' have an extra safety barrier that will help ensure that when they do panic and grab a fistful of front brake in the wet, they are likely to remain upright and hopefully have enough time and control to sort the problem. They will then go home in one piece, change to fresh underwear, and accept that they pushed the front brake too hard. Without ABS they end up hitting the tarmac immediately after the front wheel wash out and, if lucky, will get away with a lesson in body surfing.ABS takes away a lot of the need for feel, skill and finesse; you simple "grab a handfull" and the electronic brain does the rest.
Knowing that the ABS has gone off is retrospective (stable door, horse, etc), whereas it would be nice to think pro-actively and prevent it happening in the first place.
Proper instruction includes recognising the symptoms of a tyre letting go and the suitable corrective actions to take.
Proper instruction also gives the student the skill and ability to make sure they don't panic and grab a fistfull in the first place.
In seven years of teaching, I've never once had a student wash out the front wheel, let alone go body surfing!
Maybe you should go back to your bike school and ask for the rest of your course...
I live in a rural area where there is a lot of farm vehicle activity. For example, at this time of year, it is common to suddenly, without any prior warning, find the road covered in mud where the sugar beat harvesting is happening, and at the same time to have an unlit trailer parked half way across the road. Yes, my forward observation possibly should have allowed for that but like all road users, I am only human and occasionally misjudge things. At those points, ABS has ‘saved my bacon'.
For your reference, I have been riding motorcycles for 29 years. The first 8 of those years it was my only form of transport so I rode all year round, including snow and ice. I have always owned a motorcycle and my annual mileage has ranged from as little as 4000 miles a year to a high of 45000 miles in one year. I ride in Europe at least once a year. I spent 10 years as a motorcycle instructor and I have passed numerous advanced motorcycling courses.
Rubin215 said:
Maybe you should go back to your bike school and ask for the rest of your course...
People in glass houses....http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Rubin215 said:
As a "get you out alive" tool, ABS is fantastic.
As a "my first bike" device however, ABS is not such a good idea.
ABS takes away a lot of the need for feel, skill and finesse; you simple "grab a handfull" and the electronic brain does the rest.
Okay, fine; gets me out alive, that's what I've paid for.
But what happens when you then get on a bike without ABS?
If you've never had to learn the desired skills then the first time you need to stop in an emergency it has a much increased potential to go "Pete Tong.".
I teach DAS courses on CBF 500's (with ABS), but never actually mention the ABS to the student. If anyone ever asks I tell them it's only there to save their ass if they make a mess of things.
To me it's much more important that the rider is actually conscious of their level of braking in relation to their level of grip, and adjusts it accordingly.
that what i thunk thanksAs a "my first bike" device however, ABS is not such a good idea.
ABS takes away a lot of the need for feel, skill and finesse; you simple "grab a handfull" and the electronic brain does the rest.
Okay, fine; gets me out alive, that's what I've paid for.
But what happens when you then get on a bike without ABS?
If you've never had to learn the desired skills then the first time you need to stop in an emergency it has a much increased potential to go "Pete Tong.".
I teach DAS courses on CBF 500's (with ABS), but never actually mention the ABS to the student. If anyone ever asks I tell them it's only there to save their ass if they make a mess of things.
To me it's much more important that the rider is actually conscious of their level of braking in relation to their level of grip, and adjusts it accordingly.
SplatSpeed said:
Rubin215 said:
As a "get you out alive" tool, ABS is fantastic.
As a "my first bike" device however, ABS is not such a good idea.
ABS takes away a lot of the need for feel, skill and finesse; you simple "grab a handfull" and the electronic brain does the rest.
Okay, fine; gets me out alive, that's what I've paid for.
But what happens when you then get on a bike without ABS?
If you've never had to learn the desired skills then the first time you need to stop in an emergency it has a much increased potential to go "Pete Tong.".
I teach DAS courses on CBF 500's (with ABS), but never actually mention the ABS to the student. If anyone ever asks I tell them it's only there to save their ass if they make a mess of things.
To me it's much more important that the rider is actually conscious of their level of braking in relation to their level of grip, and adjusts it accordingly.
that what i thunk thanksAs a "my first bike" device however, ABS is not such a good idea.
ABS takes away a lot of the need for feel, skill and finesse; you simple "grab a handfull" and the electronic brain does the rest.
Okay, fine; gets me out alive, that's what I've paid for.
But what happens when you then get on a bike without ABS?
If you've never had to learn the desired skills then the first time you need to stop in an emergency it has a much increased potential to go "Pete Tong.".
I teach DAS courses on CBF 500's (with ABS), but never actually mention the ABS to the student. If anyone ever asks I tell them it's only there to save their ass if they make a mess of things.
To me it's much more important that the rider is actually conscious of their level of braking in relation to their level of grip, and adjusts it accordingly.
If you get it wrong without ABS you feel the front slide out from under you then a pulsing through your body as you bounce down the tarmac and if you remain conscious, you get a realisation that you’ve pushed the front brake too hard!
I know which option I'd rather use to learn about "braking in relation to their level of grip", but each to their own!
Ride safe and enjoy.
I've never had a bike with ABS, so I may not be the most qualified to answer (but hey, thay's never stopped me before!) I think it's good as a safety net, just in case, but it's important to ride with the opinion "if the ABS kicks in, I've f**ked up" so you don't get dependant on it. I think people's main worry with ABS is that people just always use it, then get on a non-ABS bike and kill themselves. Then again, how often do you stop a car by just stamping on the brakes and letting the system do the rest?
So, I'd say you don't NEED to have it on a first bike, but that's up to you.
So, I'd say you don't NEED to have it on a first bike, but that's up to you.
The simple answer is YES.
It's a bit like when in 1970 someone asked "are disk brakes better than drum brakes."
Well, duh.
If you're a riding God ABS will never bother you. But if you're riding home one night, cold and wet - and a Deer/Badger/Dog/Rabbit runs out in front of you, you might thank your lucky stars for ABS!
It's a bit like when in 1970 someone asked "are disk brakes better than drum brakes."
Well, duh.
If you're a riding God ABS will never bother you. But if you're riding home one night, cold and wet - and a Deer/Badger/Dog/Rabbit runs out in front of you, you might thank your lucky stars for ABS!
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