Considering an Elise S2
Discussion
I am looking at buying an early S2 elise and have a few questions! Apologies if any of these have been asked to death..
No abs/power steering - i'm assuming these aren't much of an issue due to the weight of the car?
Stone chips - I understand the elise is prone to this. The elise will be my daily drive, is it worth getting protection film or is touch-up paint ok? It's not going to be a major issue for me, i just wouldn't want to have the car looking neglected!
S2 roof - Is this as bad for leaks as the S1? Also, after watching an old top gear review of the s1 on youtube, is the roof any easier to get off and on!
Service intervals - how often is the big C service /cam belt change?
Head gasket failure - average cost of repair?
No abs/power steering - i'm assuming these aren't much of an issue due to the weight of the car?
Stone chips - I understand the elise is prone to this. The elise will be my daily drive, is it worth getting protection film or is touch-up paint ok? It's not going to be a major issue for me, i just wouldn't want to have the car looking neglected!
S2 roof - Is this as bad for leaks as the S1? Also, after watching an old top gear review of the s1 on youtube, is the roof any easier to get off and on!
Service intervals - how often is the big C service /cam belt change?
Head gasket failure - average cost of repair?
No abs/power steering - i'm assuming these aren't much of an issue due to the weight of the car? –
I have had no problems at all. Brakes are excellent, lots of feel and stop you dam quick. The steering is also perfect, once on the move its light and very talkative.
S2 roof - Is this as bad for leaks as the S1? Also, after watching an old top gear review of the s1 on youtube, is the roof any easier to get off and on! –
The roof is fine, very very easy to remove and put back into place, if you are referring to the review I think you are (with Tiff?) then yes, that is a complex roof. The S2 roof has 2 clips on each side which just need squeezing to release, the roof then rolls up and can be stored in the boot. I have only had my S2 since October but have experience some monsoon conditions in this time and so far I have had no leaks at all.
Head gasket failure - average cost of repair? –
Which S2 are you considering? HGF is only a real issue with the K series Elises (111S for example) and if your car is well looked after its nothing to worry about. Have a read of this post as it should put your mind to rest> http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
The Elise R and 07 onwards S are powered by a Toyota lump
No ABS (or indeed brake servo if you get a Rover engined car) or power steering: The steering is very light unless you like to be able to turn the wheel when stationary (which you shouldn't on any car). All you'll notice is how little feedback your old cars gave you - if anything, the Elise is alarmingly light until you get used to it. The brakes work well.
The front end does suffer badly from stone chips because it's very low and I suspect because Lotus use crap paint. Many cars will have armourfend or similar. Whether it's worth adding paint protection depends on how much you care about stone chips really.
I have a short-roof S2 and it has never leaked, even in the worst of weather. I don't think it's the short-roofness as much as the little rubber channels attached to the windscreen pillars that help though. Not sure when they came in. The short-roof top is much quicker to take on and off.
C-service is every 6 years (AABAACAABAAC...).
HGF costs about 400-500 quid to fix if it happens. If you look after it properly, it probably wont go.
It's worth looking at VX220s too unless you're obsessed by the badge.
The front end does suffer badly from stone chips because it's very low and I suspect because Lotus use crap paint. Many cars will have armourfend or similar. Whether it's worth adding paint protection depends on how much you care about stone chips really.
I have a short-roof S2 and it has never leaked, even in the worst of weather. I don't think it's the short-roofness as much as the little rubber channels attached to the windscreen pillars that help though. Not sure when they came in. The short-roof top is much quicker to take on and off.
C-service is every 6 years (AABAACAABAAC...).
HGF costs about 400-500 quid to fix if it happens. If you look after it properly, it probably wont go.
It's worth looking at VX220s too unless you're obsessed by the badge.
jconn said:
I am looking at buying an early S2 elise and have a few questions! Apologies if any of these have been asked to death..
No abs/power steering - i'm assuming these aren't much of an issue due to the weight of the car?
As above, it's not a problem ,the front is also very light. Brakes have brilliant feel, too.
Stone chips - I understand the elise is prone to this. The elise will be my daily drive, is it worth getting protection film or is touch-up paint ok? It's not going to be a major issue for me, i just wouldn't want to have the car looking neglected!
Just get the lower nose section and side sills armourfended, the rest doesn't do too badly. The nose bit is about £200 fitted
S2 roof - Is this as bad for leaks as the S1? Also, after watching an old top gear review of the s1 on youtube, is the roof any easier to get off and on!
Really easy to use, can leak a little but won't be a problem
Service intervals - how often is the big C service /cam belt change?
Bear in mind the Cam Belt needs changing every 4 years, irrespective of mileage, price depends on where you go - plenty of decent specialists out there that won't break the bank
Head gasket failure - average cost of repair?
If it goes, about £6-700. But I wouldn't worry about it
No abs/power steering - i'm assuming these aren't much of an issue due to the weight of the car?
As above, it's not a problem ,the front is also very light. Brakes have brilliant feel, too.
Stone chips - I understand the elise is prone to this. The elise will be my daily drive, is it worth getting protection film or is touch-up paint ok? It's not going to be a major issue for me, i just wouldn't want to have the car looking neglected!
Just get the lower nose section and side sills armourfended, the rest doesn't do too badly. The nose bit is about £200 fitted
S2 roof - Is this as bad for leaks as the S1? Also, after watching an old top gear review of the s1 on youtube, is the roof any easier to get off and on!
Really easy to use, can leak a little but won't be a problem
Service intervals - how often is the big C service /cam belt change?
Bear in mind the Cam Belt needs changing every 4 years, irrespective of mileage, price depends on where you go - plenty of decent specialists out there that won't break the bank
Head gasket failure - average cost of repair?
If it goes, about £6-700. But I wouldn't worry about it
The early S2 has the same roof as the S1. I'm not sure when the "short-roof" came in or whether the early S2 had the little drip catchers at the front.
I just had a full service and cam belts (the 111S has two cam belts) change (plus a few minor odds and ends) done for 400 quid. New clutch will cost you the same as it would on a Rover 25 but they never go because the car is so light.
I just had a full service and cam belts (the 111S has two cam belts) change (plus a few minor odds and ends) done for 400 quid. New clutch will cost you the same as it would on a Rover 25 but they never go because the car is so light.
Edited by kambites on Friday 8th February 15:17
kambites said:
The early S2 has the same roof as the S1. I'm not sure when the "short-roof" came in or whether the early S2 had the little drip catchers at the front.
Model Year 04 was the short roof, I believe!?It has the same style roof as an S1 but I thought they were, unlike the S1, watertight (well more so should I say?!)
Short roof came in mid '02 when the 111S was introduced. All the base models then had the roof fitted. However, it's not as fiddly as the S1, it's a similar fitting to the short roof but with two fixings on the buttresses that are fixed in place by a tensioner underneath the buttress.
WRT servicing, it's no different to any other car if you find a good dealer or indie that won't charge the earth. For example I pay £115 for an A service and £175 for a B. You can probably find good places that will charge £150 and £250 respectively - Google Scottish Elises for a useful forum.
WRT servicing, it's no different to any other car if you find a good dealer or indie that won't charge the earth. For example I pay £115 for an A service and £175 for a B. You can probably find good places that will charge £150 and £250 respectively - Google Scottish Elises for a useful forum.
Just to clarify one point in your original post re ABS brakes.
It could be argued that a lighter car will be more prone to locking its wheels and therefore be in need of ABS. In practice the lack of a servo and any other interferance means its fairly easy to modulate the brakes yourself. If you've never driven a car without servoed or ABS brakes then its worth finding somewhere quiet to have a bit of practice.
Servicing costs have been covered above but for one thing: The service book will tell you that the C service includes a cambelt change. Lotus changed this to changing the cambelt every 48k or 4 years whichever comes earlier. Otherwise everything else stated in the service book remains unchanged ie: 9k intervals and AABAACAABAAC etc.
The roof thing on Top Gear overdid it a bit. Yes it is a bit fiddly but with practice its very simple and quick and they don't leak too badly if fitted properly. A shower cape stops anything getting in when parked up.
Don't get too hung up about HGF: as others have said its not that pricey a fix. If it does go get it fied properly: liner heights need to be checked before the head goes back on. If you take it easy on the engine (keep it below 3k rpm) till its properly warmed up and you can help it out.
Something not mentioned is the suspension. Although its a light car the Elise is heavy on suspension bushes, balljoints, wheel bearings and pretty well anything else down in that area.
Dependant on the type of use the car has had once its past say 50k then it could probably do with a suspension refresh. Parts for that could come to £1,000 plus lots of labour. Its an easy enough job to do yourself though.
Can't think of anything else: just be aware that to keep the car in tip top condition takes a little more effort than a Eurobox but its well worth it.
It could be argued that a lighter car will be more prone to locking its wheels and therefore be in need of ABS. In practice the lack of a servo and any other interferance means its fairly easy to modulate the brakes yourself. If you've never driven a car without servoed or ABS brakes then its worth finding somewhere quiet to have a bit of practice.
Servicing costs have been covered above but for one thing: The service book will tell you that the C service includes a cambelt change. Lotus changed this to changing the cambelt every 48k or 4 years whichever comes earlier. Otherwise everything else stated in the service book remains unchanged ie: 9k intervals and AABAACAABAAC etc.
The roof thing on Top Gear overdid it a bit. Yes it is a bit fiddly but with practice its very simple and quick and they don't leak too badly if fitted properly. A shower cape stops anything getting in when parked up.
Don't get too hung up about HGF: as others have said its not that pricey a fix. If it does go get it fied properly: liner heights need to be checked before the head goes back on. If you take it easy on the engine (keep it below 3k rpm) till its properly warmed up and you can help it out.
Something not mentioned is the suspension. Although its a light car the Elise is heavy on suspension bushes, balljoints, wheel bearings and pretty well anything else down in that area.
Dependant on the type of use the car has had once its past say 50k then it could probably do with a suspension refresh. Parts for that could come to £1,000 plus lots of labour. Its an easy enough job to do yourself though.
Can't think of anything else: just be aware that to keep the car in tip top condition takes a little more effort than a Eurobox but its well worth it.
I've got the K series engine in mine. Had HGF once when I very first got it, but since then have tried to let it warm up etc before giving it beans, and its been rock solid. No other problems whatsoever, and trust me I've given it beans on our local runs out. 
Great car, dont dwell on the negatives too much - make sure
a) You've got a good local Lotus garage, makes all the difference to know they're there should you need em.
b) Take out a warranty for peace of mind. Sure they dont cover 100% of failures, but still covers majority of potential issues.
Other than that, fantastic cars, can't recommend highly enough.
HTH.
Great car, dont dwell on the negatives too much - make sure
a) You've got a good local Lotus garage, makes all the difference to know they're there should you need em.
b) Take out a warranty for peace of mind. Sure they dont cover 100% of failures, but still covers majority of potential issues.
Other than that, fantastic cars, can't recommend highly enough.
HTH.
Fidgits said:
I was wondering how reliable the K-series engine is?
I am really taken with a 2006 111R - but its a lot of money for a 'weekend toy' (i cant really use it for work, i cant imagine my boss being happy climbing into it) but am i asking for trouble by looking at a 02/03 111S?
Drive them both, normally the 111S is enough but you may like the extra bhp of the 111R. Different power delivery styles with all of the Rs power coming in a big rush on the second cam. I am really taken with a 2006 111R - but its a lot of money for a 'weekend toy' (i cant really use it for work, i cant imagine my boss being happy climbing into it) but am i asking for trouble by looking at a 02/03 111S?
You can get a good 02/03 111s for around the 13k mark. Don't worry about HGF, if you take out an AA warranty for 60 quid a year you are covered. Also bear in mind if the very worst did happen & the engine died, you can get replacement ones for f*ck all. Someone is selling a VVC engine with gearbox & installation for only 1500 quid on seloc!
If a yota goes bang & you're out of warranty then it'll cost you a fortune. The vvc engine in the 111s is very good & lots of low end grunt, very driveable. I chose one over a 111r as I preferred the torque curve of it & not a big fan of revving the nuts off an engine to get performance. Ignore the HGF worries, as a previous poster said, just let it warm up before pressing the loud pedal too hard & you'll be ok. Another bonus is the great fuel consumption & low tax. Get a 111s, you'll save a few quid & have a great car.
If a yota goes bang & you're out of warranty then it'll cost you a fortune. The vvc engine in the 111s is very good & lots of low end grunt, very driveable. I chose one over a 111r as I preferred the torque curve of it & not a big fan of revving the nuts off an engine to get performance. Ignore the HGF worries, as a previous poster said, just let it warm up before pressing the loud pedal too hard & you'll be ok. Another bonus is the great fuel consumption & low tax. Get a 111s, you'll save a few quid & have a great car.
Fidgits said:
I was wondering how reliable the K-series engine is?
I am really taken with a 2006 111R - but its a lot of money for a 'weekend toy' (i cant really use it for work, i cant imagine my boss being happy climbing into it) but am i asking for trouble by looking at a 02/03 111S?
Later 111Ss have very well-sorted engines and as above it sips petrol, even on track if you drive smoothlyI am really taken with a 2006 111R - but its a lot of money for a 'weekend toy' (i cant really use it for work, i cant imagine my boss being happy climbing into it) but am i asking for trouble by looking at a 02/03 111S?
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