Discussion
Saw my first one at Castles on Saturday.
Nice, but not sure it really has a market...
Maybe Lotus just need to cover a small development cost so after selling a handfull with have started making returns on their investment into the car, but the sector it seems to be pitched against is well established and tough to enter. I guess that the marque will count for something here compare to the Toniq-R say, but I just think there's better out there for less outlay and when you buy a car like this you don't really buy it for the badge, but for how it gets you around a track and makes you feel... maybe it's mind blowingin bed on the track?
Nice, but not sure it really has a market...
Maybe Lotus just need to cover a small development cost so after selling a handfull with have started making returns on their investment into the car, but the sector it seems to be pitched against is well established and tough to enter. I guess that the marque will count for something here compare to the Toniq-R say, but I just think there's better out there for less outlay and when you buy a car like this you don't really buy it for the badge, but for how it gets you around a track and makes you feel... maybe it's mind blowing
It's been a success. And I reckon there are a couple of good reasons for this:
1. It's a turn-key solution to extreme track cars - Radicals, for example, need constant attention, rebuilds etc. This has a proven engine package.
2. It's as quick as a 911 GT3 RS, yet is half the price. Yes, the GT3 has a roof and other bits, but it's never going to be your only car, is it? Buy a 2-Eleven and a BMW etc for daily use and you'll still have loads of change left over for trackdays, not to mention the lower running costs. New Ceramic brakes Sir? Certainly, please give me the number of your offshore account and I'll arrange this for you.
1. It's a turn-key solution to extreme track cars - Radicals, for example, need constant attention, rebuilds etc. This has a proven engine package.
2. It's as quick as a 911 GT3 RS, yet is half the price. Yes, the GT3 has a roof and other bits, but it's never going to be your only car, is it? Buy a 2-Eleven and a BMW etc for daily use and you'll still have loads of change left over for trackdays, not to mention the lower running costs. New Ceramic brakes Sir? Certainly, please give me the number of your offshore account and I'll arrange this for you.
kevin ritson said:
It's been a success. And I reckon there are a couple of good reasons for this:
1. It's a turn-key solution to extreme track cars - Radicals, for example, need constant attention, rebuilds etc. This has a proven engine package.
2. It's as quick as a 911 GT3 RS, yet is half the price. Yes, the GT3 has a roof and other bits, but it's never going to be your only car, is it? Buy a 2-Eleven and a BMW etc for daily use and you'll still have loads of change left over for trackdays, not to mention the lower running costs. New Ceramic brakes Sir? Certainly, please give me the number of your offshore account and I'll arrange this for you.
Have to agree 100% with Kevin1. It's a turn-key solution to extreme track cars - Radicals, for example, need constant attention, rebuilds etc. This has a proven engine package.
2. It's as quick as a 911 GT3 RS, yet is half the price. Yes, the GT3 has a roof and other bits, but it's never going to be your only car, is it? Buy a 2-Eleven and a BMW etc for daily use and you'll still have loads of change left over for trackdays, not to mention the lower running costs. New Ceramic brakes Sir? Certainly, please give me the number of your offshore account and I'll arrange this for you.
It's a fantastic Car for Track day's Sprint's etc, Wait and see how it performs in this year's Trophy
Boggy
but for £6,000 less (read price of lots of track days / spare car / season racing) I can have the a little more power, 200kg lower mass, quicker proven lap times and have a less stressed engine in a standard Caterham CSR 260.
Don't get me wrong, I'm a loyal Lotus fan, but I'm not sure how they convinced their backers this was a car they should invest in.
Don't get me wrong, I'm a loyal Lotus fan, but I'm not sure how they convinced their backers this was a car they should invest in.
kevin ritson said:
1. It's a turn-key solution to extreme track cars - Radicals, for example, need constant attention, rebuilds etc. This has a proven engine package.
Not exactly comparing apples to apples are we here really... The 2-eleven neither has the speed nor cornering ability of a Radical. Once we're talking about power to weight of 2kg per bhp or less, constant attetntion and rebuilds become a factor. It'd be a lot closer if we could get a 2-eleven closer to 500kg or less rather than the 650-750 that it's currently pegged at.
Phil-CH said:
kevin ritson said:
1. It's a turn-key solution to extreme track cars - Radicals, for example, need constant attention, rebuilds etc. This has a proven engine package.
Not exactly comparing apples to apples are we here really... The 2-eleven neither has the speed nor cornering ability of a Radical. Once we're talking about power to weight of 2kg per bhp or less, constant attetntion and rebuilds become a factor. It'd be a lot closer if we could get a 2-eleven closer to 500kg or less rather than the 650-750 that it's currently pegged at.Boggy
AndrewD said:
Hi Phil, notice you're in CH with an Exige. Who looks after it out here, if you don't mind me asking. And any recommendations on the best place to look for an Exige? Any words of wisdom on Exige ownership (with a track bias for me)?
Saw a Bermani for sale on autoscout24
I'm in Zug
Hi AndrewSaw a Bermani for sale on autoscout24
I'm in Zug
Moved my response to your topic. Cheers!
Edited by Phil-CH on Monday 11th February 13:23
Phil-CH said:
kevin ritson said:
1. It's a turn-key solution to extreme track cars - Radicals, for example, need constant attention, rebuilds etc. This has a proven engine package.
Not exactly comparing apples to apples are we here really... The 2-eleven neither has the speed nor cornering ability of a Radical. Once we're talking about power to weight of 2kg per bhp or less, constant attetntion and rebuilds become a factor. It'd be a lot closer if we could get a 2-eleven closer to 500kg or less rather than the 650-750 that it's currently pegged at.As a 2-11 owner I have to say they are a fantastic car. Obviously they are designed as a track day special and not meant as an only car. As some other people have pointed out they may not be as quick as a Radical, but they don't need an engine rebuild ever other track day. IMHO no car has the same tactility and balance as a Lotus, but at the end of the day you pay your money and take your choice.
Buying a car like this is a very immotive subject and is never to do with value for money. You buy it because you love it and has nothing to do with trying to justify the expense, because obviously you can't.
Buying a car like this is a very immotive subject and is never to do with value for money. You buy it because you love it and has nothing to do with trying to justify the expense, because obviously you can't.
pgn340r said:
As a 2-11 owner I have to say they are a fantastic car. Obviously they are designed as a track day special and not meant as an only car. As some other people have pointed out they may not be as quick as a Radical, but they don't need an engine rebuild ever other track day. IMHO no car has the same tactility and balance as a Lotus, but at the end of the day you pay your money and take your choice.
Buying a car like this is a very immotive subject and is never to do with value for money. You buy it because you love it and has nothing to do with trying to justify the expense, because obviously you can't.
How's it compare to the 340R? I guess that's the closest thing Lotus had before the 2-11.Buying a car like this is a very immotive subject and is never to do with value for money. You buy it because you love it and has nothing to do with trying to justify the expense, because obviously you can't.
Difficult one that Dave, partly because it's been a few year since I owned mine, but I would have to say it is a much more extreme than the 340R. It's oviously much quicker and more track focused, the 340r was more a styling excercise I think and had lets say had 'interesting' on the limits handling.
The 2-11 is very balance and can be set up to totally eradicate any understeer (if you like a neutral handling car). It is also much more physical to drive, so much so I am thinking about joining a gym!, lots of bufferting at high speed and is very similar in that respect to drivuing a single seater such as a Formula Ford.
If I had one crriticism is that the front screen, such as it is, needs to be slightly higher to prevent the vortex that tries to rip your helmet off above 100 mph.
The 2-11 is very balance and can be set up to totally eradicate any understeer (if you like a neutral handling car). It is also much more physical to drive, so much so I am thinking about joining a gym!, lots of bufferting at high speed and is very similar in that respect to drivuing a single seater such as a Formula Ford.
If I had one crriticism is that the front screen, such as it is, needs to be slightly higher to prevent the vortex that tries to rip your helmet off above 100 mph.
Foolish Dave said:
pgn340r said:
As a 2-11 owner I have to say they are a fantastic car. Obviously they are designed as a track day special and not meant as an only car. As some other people have pointed out they may not be as quick as a Radical, but they don't need an engine rebuild ever other track day. IMHO no car has the same tactility and balance as a Lotus, but at the end of the day you pay your money and take your choice.
Buying a car like this is a very immotive subject and is never to do with value for money. You buy it because you love it and has nothing to do with trying to justify the expense, because obviously you can't.
How's it compare to the 340R? I guess that's the closest thing Lotus had before the 2-11.Buying a car like this is a very immotive subject and is never to do with value for money. You buy it because you love it and has nothing to do with trying to justify the expense, because obviously you can't.
kevin ritson said:
It's been a success. And I reckon there are a couple of good reasons for this:
1. It's a turn-key solution to extreme track cars - Radicals, for example, need constant attention, rebuilds etc. This has a proven engine package.
2. It's as quick as a 911 GT3 RS, yet is half the price. Yes, the GT3 has a roof and other bits, but it's never going to be your only car, is it? Buy a 2-Eleven and a BMW etc for daily use and you'll still have loads of change left over for trackdays, not to mention the lower running costs. New Ceramic brakes Sir? Certainly, please give me the number of your offshore account and I'll arrange this for you.
me thinks your jumping to conclutions..1. It's a turn-key solution to extreme track cars - Radicals, for example, need constant attention, rebuilds etc. This has a proven engine package.
2. It's as quick as a 911 GT3 RS, yet is half the price. Yes, the GT3 has a roof and other bits, but it's never going to be your only car, is it? Buy a 2-Eleven and a BMW etc for daily use and you'll still have loads of change left over for trackdays, not to mention the lower running costs. New Ceramic brakes Sir? Certainly, please give me the number of your offshore account and I'll arrange this for you.
1) what's not turn-key about Radicals/Norma/Juno/Chiron/etc ?
also, we have no idea at the moment how the engines will fair when the cars are raced hard, yes, I am not expecting them to be un-reliable, but at this point, we just don't know.
2) your having a laugh if you think it will match the pace of a GT3 RS...
back in the real world, it's not even close, if you then compare it with a simmilay priced Juno or the like, it's nowhere.
people who are going to by a 2-11 should do because they want one for what it is...
NathanE said:
The 211 was designed in like 12 weeks IIRC by just 2 or 3 guys
Lotus probably only need to sell like 10 (which they already have by far) to recoup their investment!
If nothing else it improves their brand image.
I think Castle's alone have sold more than 10Lotus probably only need to sell like 10 (which they already have by far) to recoup their investment!
If nothing else it improves their brand image.
I'd say in the region of 100 so far
Boggy
NathanE said:
The 211 was designed in like 12 weeks IIRC by just 2 or 3 guys
Lotus probably only need to sell like 10 (which they already have by far) to recoup their investment!
Knowing the cost of producing production-quality body moulds (several hundred K, typically), they're gonna need to sell a few more than thatLotus probably only need to sell like 10 (which they already have by far) to recoup their investment!
Scuffers said:
kevin ritson said:
It's been a success. And I reckon there are a couple of good reasons for this:
1. It's a turn-key solution to extreme track cars - Radicals, for example, need constant attention, rebuilds etc. This has a proven engine package.
2. It's as quick as a 911 GT3 RS, yet is half the price. Yes, the GT3 has a roof and other bits, but it's never going to be your only car, is it? Buy a 2-Eleven and a BMW etc for daily use and you'll still have loads of change left over for trackdays, not to mention the lower running costs. New Ceramic brakes Sir? Certainly, please give me the number of your offshore account and I'll arrange this for you.
me thinks your jumping to conclutions..1. It's a turn-key solution to extreme track cars - Radicals, for example, need constant attention, rebuilds etc. This has a proven engine package.
2. It's as quick as a 911 GT3 RS, yet is half the price. Yes, the GT3 has a roof and other bits, but it's never going to be your only car, is it? Buy a 2-Eleven and a BMW etc for daily use and you'll still have loads of change left over for trackdays, not to mention the lower running costs. New Ceramic brakes Sir? Certainly, please give me the number of your offshore account and I'll arrange this for you.
1) what's not turn-key about Radicals/Norma/Juno/Chiron/etc ?
also, we have no idea at the moment how the engines will fair when the cars are raced hard, yes, I am not expecting them to be un-reliable, but at this point, we just don't know.
2) your having a laugh if you think it will match the pace of a GT3 RS...
back in the real world, it's not even close, if you then compare it with a simmilay priced Juno or the like, it's nowhere.
people who are going to by a 2-11 should do because they want one for what it is...
Sam_68 said:
NathanE said:
The 211 was designed in like 12 weeks IIRC by just 2 or 3 guys
Lotus probably only need to sell like 10 (which they already have by far) to recoup their investment!
Knowing the cost of producing production-quality body moulds (several hundred K, typically), they're gonna need to sell a few more than thatLotus probably only need to sell like 10 (which they already have by far) to recoup their investment!
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