would this work??!

[matt-man]

Hey All,

Not thinking for the wedge, but would this work??!

http://www.water-4-fuel.com/

[adam quantrill]

Thanks Matt, you brightened up my day - ROFL!

[wargriff]

This would work well with my griff, i could use the passenger footwell as a collection tank for the water...

[Gerry Attrick]

Yes, it will, but not as well as they suggest. Running on a mixture of gasoline and hydrogen gives improved combustion charateristics, results in improved fuel consumption and lower emissions. Using between 3 - 5% of hydrogen, and replacing the gasoline, will give an improvement of about 5% fuel economy.

Hydrogen can be obtained from water by electrolysis (a well known principle) and the power to drive the electrolysis process can be provided by the car's battery. The problem is that you need additional power from the engine to charge up the battery and, as a result, the fuel consumption improvement is reduced significantly.

I'm currently working with the UK government to develop an improved electrolysis system ( http://www.entrepreneurs.gov.uk/gep/6142/en-GB.htm... ), powered by the waste energy from the exhaust, which will overcome these problems. Four prototypes have already been produced and proven to work by independent experts from a number of internationally accepted institutions. We are about to produce a full size demonstrator, which I intend to fit to an engine sometime in the next six months, if we can get the funds. Maybe, I'll try to fit it to a Wedge, but I'll need one with feedback control through and oxygen sensor.

I'll keep you updated.

[TVRleigh_BBWR]

I'd be suprized if there small hydrogen cell could produce enough for a v8 at full chat.

if you live in the slow lane and allway worring about MPG, then it may help these kind of people.

I did a small test the other day in my audi, with my bro, as we was talking about the MPG his friend gets from his Civic, but he drives everywhere at 55mph, was about 40MPG, so I said If I drove like a old man my A3 1.8TS would do better than that. so I reset every thing and drove like an numpty, and got 45MPG. but live is to short to drive like that.

[Gerry Attrick]

If you consider that 40% of the fuel you put into the tank is wasted down the exhaust, you only need to recover half of that to generate 20% additional energy in the form of hydrogen. The prototypes are just over 90% efficient, and the concept is proven and also patented.

"O ye of little faith!"

[Stever]

bit early for April fools

[rev-erend]

Gerry Attrick said:

If you consider that 40% of the fuel you put into the tank is wasted down the exhaust

As heat - what is needed is a heat exchanger .. heat the water, drive the turbine..

Then what ..

Batteries .. heavy
Drive crank .. small engine needed.. sometimes..

The dilema has been around for a while.

[TVRleigh_BBWR]

Gerry Attrick said:

If you consider that 40% of the fuel you put into the tank is wasted down the exhaust, you only need to recover half of that to generate 20% additional energy in the form of hydrogen. The prototypes are just over 90% efficient, and the concept is proven and also patented.

"O ye of little faith!"

Was not saying it the the principles did not work or in same cases it improves eficency.

What I said the stupid converter in the advert from the OP was so small it not going to make much hydrogen, compared to the amount of fuel and air a tuned V8 on full throttle is going to need.

Also engines need to be at a certain temp. to give the best results, so not all the heat is wasted.

what you need to invent is a heat to electricty conveter to charge the battery so the alternator, does not sap your BHP. then you could also run a electric water pump and PAS. and then you would have no drain on the engine.

[Gerry Attrick]

Visteon, a subsidiary of Ford, have already developed a system to reclaim waste exhaust energy and convert it into electrical power to drive lights, power windows, fans etc. I think it's called "Tigers" and was co-developed with a university. I think they can get about 6 kW from a typical engine.

The hydrogen generator uses a different principle, which does not have so many steps in the chain, so it gains in efficiency.

[Gerry Attrick]

I forgot to say, that when you convert water to hydrogen, the by-product is oxygen. So if you feed the oxygen back into the engine intake you get a highly oxygen rich mixture, much the same as you'd achieve with Nitro. Maybe that's why I'm thinking of putting it on the Wedge

[rev-erend]

Gerry Attrick said:

I forgot to say, that when you convert water to hydrogen, the by-product is oxygen. So if you feed the oxygen back into the engine intake you get a highly oxygen rich mixture, much the same as you'd achieve with Nitro. Maybe that's why I'm thinking of putting it on the Wedge

Hope you are going to add extra fuel otherwise it will just torch the engine..

[combine]

Isn't 85% of fuel price tax ? So whatever we put in the tank it will still cost the same or more ! It's just making the stuf more efficient and cleaner that needs sorting , ie ethanol , or bio - fuel .

[Gerry Attrick]

combine said:

Isn't 85% of fuel price tax ? So whatever we put in the tank it will still cost the same or more ! It's just making the stuf more efficient and cleaner that needs sorting , ie ethanol , or bio - fuel .

Yes that's true but, if the engine uses 20% less petrol because it's replaced by hydrogen, and the hydrogen comes from tap water, you save 20% in cost. The only problem is that Darling Brown will begin to tax water!!

[zcar]

I did a lot of reading up on this last year and as Gerry rightly says, the key is to create hydrogen to use as an "additive" with the petrol to improve fuel burn efficiency. There are loads of plans and info available on the net, mainly on US based sites.
From what I have gleaned its ok as an additive, but you could never make sufficient to power a decent engined car due to issues with start up, torque levels and having sufficient power to move a vehicle away from rest. The best way to do it would be to manufactuer HHO on demend, then use that to run a small electrical generator to run a battery powered car.
On a slighty different note, when the liner moved on my old fellas 4.6 rangie, it started using a lot of water (2litres a mile at one point) but boy did the fuel eceonomy go up as a result of burning the water! A normal 16-18mpg went up to 25mpg!!! Sounded like a tractor though and had no go, but it limped him home ok.
Nick

[TVRleigh_BBWR]

zcar said:

On a slighty different note, when the liner moved on my old fellas 4.6 rangie, it started using a lot of water (2litres a mile at one point) but boy did the fuel eceonomy go up as a result of burning the water! A normal 16-18mpg went up to 25mpg!!! Sounded like a tractor though and had no go, but it limped him home ok.
Nick

Also that would have only been one cyclinder, also your get a very clean piston.

do you know why the liner slipped, had the car previouly over heated.

[zcar]

I didnt mean to put slipped, the liner had cracked, which is all down to how they were assemebled at Rover and the inherent fatigue the liner recieves when its force fitted with a large press. Its now been rebuilt with top hat liners and had the liners cooled with nitrogen before fitting to ensure they are as stress free as can be. Pulls like a train now as well, which is nice!!!!

[Gerry Attrick]

I thought you may be interested in an update. OM Energy was one of the winners in the Southern Area Final of the Shell Springboard innovation challenge on Wednesday night. We were awarded a significant amount of money to progress the development of the project, and we're hoping to use the kudos from the win to attract further funding. If Shell consider it worth supporting, it must be good.

A hydrogen co-fired Wedge is no longer a distant possibility!

[rev-erend]

Gerry - well in that case CONGRATULATIONS.. !

Hope it goes well

[RMeier]

Seen this on BBC News 24 re hydrogen car to be unveiled:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7265267.stm
Bob