Road building? No, we need more Scameras.....
Discussion
http://www.dailymail.co.uk:80/pages/live/articles/...
The cut-price solution to traffic gridlock? Stop building roads and put in more speed cameras
By RAY MASSEY
Last updated at 19:24pm on 11th February 2008
Speed cameras are set to replace road-building schemes as the Government's cut-price solution to beating gridlock.
Figures obtained by the Daily Mail reveal that costly road projects are spiralling out of control and costing up to £100million a mile - or £1,500 an inch.
As a result, ministers are set to axe a swathe of controversial road schemes, with those on the M1 and M6 most at risk.
They face being replaced instead with far cheaper "active traffic management" schemes linked to speed cameras.
These include using motorway hard shoulders as extra lanes, introducing variable speed limits which reduce as traffic gets heavier and siting speed cameras to police and enforce the system.
It means thousands more drivers are likely to be hit with speeding fines. But ministers believe it is a far cheaper option for reducing jams than building new roads.
Fewer than half the Government's major road-building projects are being completed on budget, say critics.
Transport Secretary Ruth Kelly is set to back the switch from tarmac to technology when she publishes two major reports within weeks.
One, from the Highways Agency, was ordered by ministers into the spiralling cost of road projects.
The second highlights how technology such as cameras, road sensors and hard shoulders could prove a cheaper alternative to expensive road building.
The Government is expected to seize on both reports to back the widespread introduction of "active traffic management".
A trial of the variable speed limit system on the M42 showed that more than 95 per cent of drivers comply - fearing the risk of getting a ticket if caught on camera.
The M42 trial, and a similar scheme on a section of the M25, found that reducing the limit resulted in faster average journeys because vehicles were less likely to brake sharply, which causes tailbacks.
Fuel consumption fell by 4 per cent and harmful vehicle emissions by 10 per cent.
The Campaign for Better Transport has calculated from official figures that the most expensive conventional road scheme is the £100million per mile for the M74 near Glasgow, though the Highways Agency says the average cost for constructing a mile of motorway is £29.9million.
Rebecca Lush Blum, of the CBT, said: "Roadbuilding is bad news for the taxpayer as well as the environment.
"By contrast, active traffic management involves opening up the hard shoulder at peak times, with all lanes travelling at 50mph.
"This benefits motorists by smoothing out traffic flows, creating more reliable journeys, and reducing carbon emissions, pollution and accidents."
Figures from the Tories show fewer than half the Government's Highways Agency projects are meeting their budget. In 2006 only three out of ten completed road schemes came in on budget.
The RAC Foundation says 1,000 miles of major highways across Britain face gridlock by 2040 unless more roads are built.
The cut-price solution to traffic gridlock? Stop building roads and put in more speed cameras
By RAY MASSEY
Last updated at 19:24pm on 11th February 2008
Speed cameras are set to replace road-building schemes as the Government's cut-price solution to beating gridlock.
Figures obtained by the Daily Mail reveal that costly road projects are spiralling out of control and costing up to £100million a mile - or £1,500 an inch.
As a result, ministers are set to axe a swathe of controversial road schemes, with those on the M1 and M6 most at risk.
They face being replaced instead with far cheaper "active traffic management" schemes linked to speed cameras.
These include using motorway hard shoulders as extra lanes, introducing variable speed limits which reduce as traffic gets heavier and siting speed cameras to police and enforce the system.
It means thousands more drivers are likely to be hit with speeding fines. But ministers believe it is a far cheaper option for reducing jams than building new roads.
Fewer than half the Government's major road-building projects are being completed on budget, say critics.
Transport Secretary Ruth Kelly is set to back the switch from tarmac to technology when she publishes two major reports within weeks.
One, from the Highways Agency, was ordered by ministers into the spiralling cost of road projects.
The second highlights how technology such as cameras, road sensors and hard shoulders could prove a cheaper alternative to expensive road building.
The Government is expected to seize on both reports to back the widespread introduction of "active traffic management".
A trial of the variable speed limit system on the M42 showed that more than 95 per cent of drivers comply - fearing the risk of getting a ticket if caught on camera.
The M42 trial, and a similar scheme on a section of the M25, found that reducing the limit resulted in faster average journeys because vehicles were less likely to brake sharply, which causes tailbacks.
Fuel consumption fell by 4 per cent and harmful vehicle emissions by 10 per cent.
The Campaign for Better Transport has calculated from official figures that the most expensive conventional road scheme is the £100million per mile for the M74 near Glasgow, though the Highways Agency says the average cost for constructing a mile of motorway is £29.9million.
Rebecca Lush Blum, of the CBT, said: "Roadbuilding is bad news for the taxpayer as well as the environment.
"By contrast, active traffic management involves opening up the hard shoulder at peak times, with all lanes travelling at 50mph.
"This benefits motorists by smoothing out traffic flows, creating more reliable journeys, and reducing carbon emissions, pollution and accidents."
Figures from the Tories show fewer than half the Government's Highways Agency projects are meeting their budget. In 2006 only three out of ten completed road schemes came in on budget.
The RAC Foundation says 1,000 miles of major highways across Britain face gridlock by 2040 unless more roads are built.
As a regular visitor to the M25 from J21A area to J16, I must say that the variable speed limit DOES work. Most of the scamera sites are fakes - the gantries contain nothing.
I would like to see the variable speed limit introduced on ALL of the M25. I first denounced it as hogwash, but seeing it from a "before" and "after" perspective, I have to agree that it's a go-er.
I would also like to see J19 closed, except for the off-slip on the clockwise side.
Between 0600 and 1000hrs, and 1500 and 1900 hrs close ALL non-major routes ON to the M25. In the section from the M4 to the M11 that would be J17, 18, (19's already closed!), 22, 24, and 26. 21A would be for the chop, except that it's the only way of getting on the M1 southbound from the M25.
Can't comment on the southern section. Haven't been on it for ages!
We don't need MORE roads per se, we need roads with higher capacities.
Bernoulli's principles state (fluid dynamics) that if you halve the capacity you need to double the speed to retain the same flow rate.
To increase the speed limit to 140 during peak times would lead to carnage as hundreds of brain dead office wallers still drinking their Costa coffee, having a shave, and reading the FT will cause countless accidents.
The issue we have is the heavies. They are out doing their bit, feeding the nation with goods. You cannot live with out them, your food is delivered to the shops by them, you car is delivered to the dealer (most likely) by them, and more importantly, your fuel is delivered to the filling station by them. They are the life blood of the nation. Since bringing in the 80Km/h limit in this country (plus 5Kmh derogation) our motorways have become wall to wall trucks. In the old days, faster truck came up on slower truck, indicated, pulled out in front of the Austin Ambassador, accellerated past, then pulled back in to cruising speed. Overall overtake time, not a lot. Now it's 53.1mph truck comes up to 53.0mph truck, indicated, pulls out, takes 20 miles to pass, big queue behind. Thank you EU for improving our road safety by bringing the road traffic speed down to the autocratic processing speed of your inept unelected gravy train minions in Brussels/Strasbourg/wherever they've decamped to this week.
What is the solution?
It's so bloody simple, that an MP with some help from a "Foundation Pupil" at a primary school could be capable of coming up with it....
Live near where you work, not 100 ruddy miles away!
What brings it on people to live so far away from their workplace that they have to drive 2-3hours there and back, 4-6hours every day. It's madness. Money or not.
What do I do? I'm the radio comms business, I work all over the UK at times, and I get to enjoy the benefits of our national road network.
I'm off to Reading tomorrow (again), and if I'm not on the A1 at 0600, what should be a 90minute journey turns into anything up to three hours. The difference in that is 0550: 85mins 0600: 90mins, 0610:2hrs, 0630: 2.5hrs, 0700: 3hrs.
Time for bed said zebedee.
I would like to see the variable speed limit introduced on ALL of the M25. I first denounced it as hogwash, but seeing it from a "before" and "after" perspective, I have to agree that it's a go-er.
I would also like to see J19 closed, except for the off-slip on the clockwise side.
Between 0600 and 1000hrs, and 1500 and 1900 hrs close ALL non-major routes ON to the M25. In the section from the M4 to the M11 that would be J17, 18, (19's already closed!), 22, 24, and 26. 21A would be for the chop, except that it's the only way of getting on the M1 southbound from the M25.
Can't comment on the southern section. Haven't been on it for ages!
We don't need MORE roads per se, we need roads with higher capacities.
Bernoulli's principles state (fluid dynamics) that if you halve the capacity you need to double the speed to retain the same flow rate.
To increase the speed limit to 140 during peak times would lead to carnage as hundreds of brain dead office wallers still drinking their Costa coffee, having a shave, and reading the FT will cause countless accidents.
The issue we have is the heavies. They are out doing their bit, feeding the nation with goods. You cannot live with out them, your food is delivered to the shops by them, you car is delivered to the dealer (most likely) by them, and more importantly, your fuel is delivered to the filling station by them. They are the life blood of the nation. Since bringing in the 80Km/h limit in this country (plus 5Kmh derogation) our motorways have become wall to wall trucks. In the old days, faster truck came up on slower truck, indicated, pulled out in front of the Austin Ambassador, accellerated past, then pulled back in to cruising speed. Overall overtake time, not a lot. Now it's 53.1mph truck comes up to 53.0mph truck, indicated, pulls out, takes 20 miles to pass, big queue behind. Thank you EU for improving our road safety by bringing the road traffic speed down to the autocratic processing speed of your inept unelected gravy train minions in Brussels/Strasbourg/wherever they've decamped to this week.
What is the solution?
It's so bloody simple, that an MP with some help from a "Foundation Pupil" at a primary school could be capable of coming up with it....
Live near where you work, not 100 ruddy miles away!
What brings it on people to live so far away from their workplace that they have to drive 2-3hours there and back, 4-6hours every day. It's madness. Money or not.
What do I do? I'm the radio comms business, I work all over the UK at times, and I get to enjoy the benefits of our national road network.
I'm off to Reading tomorrow (again), and if I'm not on the A1 at 0600, what should be a 90minute journey turns into anything up to three hours. The difference in that is 0550: 85mins 0600: 90mins, 0610:2hrs, 0630: 2.5hrs, 0700: 3hrs.
Time for bed said zebedee.
forgot to set the alarm last night, woke up at 9:30, out the door by 10:30, on site for 11:30 for a few hours and home by 3 or so what a load of rubbish.
I use the M25 every single day between M3 and M40 where the 'new' speed cameras are apparently enforcing the variable speed limits.
It DOES NOT WORK. IT IS A JOKE.
I'm doing 70mph - then in the distance i see a 40mph variable limit - genius. So i slow down to 40 and do this for a ridiculous amount of gantries when in fact there is no issue until the last one. Everyone is being slowed down too early and for no good reason. Whoever is working the system has a ridiculous risk assessment.
Oh, there is a peanut on the middle lane, must slow everyone down to 40mph. RUBBISH SYSTEM.
Next day i'm travelling on same stretch of road. 30mph signs everywhere - its safe to do 70-80 or even 150 (but thats a different debate).
Broken down vehicle is displayed on the overhead matrix. SO everyone is slowed down, massive tailbacks. Eventually get there and the damn broken down vehicle is on the hard shoulder - away from any risk!!
Lets not even get onto the amount of energy wasted and fuel used by drivers using their brains and doing 70mph, then slowing down to some 40mph for the tax camera then back up to 70, then back down etc.
The system will cause accidents.
I can't be sure yet - but i'm almost certain non of the gantries actually hold a speed camera.
I shall be stopping at every single one with my digital camera and checking if these useless bastards are lying about the tax cameras. I will publish the pictures.
I use the M25 every single day between M3 and M40 where the 'new' speed cameras are apparently enforcing the variable speed limits.
It DOES NOT WORK. IT IS A JOKE.
I'm doing 70mph - then in the distance i see a 40mph variable limit - genius. So i slow down to 40 and do this for a ridiculous amount of gantries when in fact there is no issue until the last one. Everyone is being slowed down too early and for no good reason. Whoever is working the system has a ridiculous risk assessment.
Oh, there is a peanut on the middle lane, must slow everyone down to 40mph. RUBBISH SYSTEM.
Next day i'm travelling on same stretch of road. 30mph signs everywhere - its safe to do 70-80 or even 150 (but thats a different debate).
Broken down vehicle is displayed on the overhead matrix. SO everyone is slowed down, massive tailbacks. Eventually get there and the damn broken down vehicle is on the hard shoulder - away from any risk!!
Lets not even get onto the amount of energy wasted and fuel used by drivers using their brains and doing 70mph, then slowing down to some 40mph for the tax camera then back up to 70, then back down etc.
The system will cause accidents.
I can't be sure yet - but i'm almost certain non of the gantries actually hold a speed camera.
I shall be stopping at every single one with my digital camera and checking if these useless bastards are lying about the tax cameras. I will publish the pictures.
The cost of building motorways will spiral whilst they continue to add a lane here or there ..It must cost a fortune to f*rt a*se around with the traffic and controls and plans and and and and If we were not held up, we would all do so much more work and the tax take would be more significant and that would pay for a new road.
Now give them a nice new green field site, and allow them unfettered access and the cost will drop dramatically.
India is building huge new motorways , 1.000's of miles noth north south and east west , Huge flyover motorways thru the middle of their cities.. They are amongst the poorest nation on earth , and we are the 4th richest.. something is VERY wrong in the state of denmark !
perhaps it is just the one man does and three watch syndrome I saw the other day, but then even that 3:1 ratio is a significant improvement on the 10 suited and booted desk men watching one bloke do some work I saw last year.
rgds
Now give them a nice new green field site, and allow them unfettered access and the cost will drop dramatically.
India is building huge new motorways , 1.000's of miles noth north south and east west , Huge flyover motorways thru the middle of their cities.. They are amongst the poorest nation on earth , and we are the 4th richest.. something is VERY wrong in the state of denmark !
perhaps it is just the one man does and three watch syndrome I saw the other day, but then even that 3:1 ratio is a significant improvement on the 10 suited and booted desk men watching one bloke do some work I saw last year.
rgds
billhol999 said:
The cost of building motorways will spiral whilst they continue to add a lane here or there ..It must cost a fortune to f*rt a*se around with the traffic and controls and plans and and and and If we were not held up, we would all do so much more work and the tax take would be more significant and that would pay for a new road.
Now give them a nice new green field site, and allow them unfettered access and the cost will drop dramatically.
India is building huge new motorways , 1.000's of miles noth north south and east west , Huge flyover motorways thru the middle of their cities.. They are amongst the poorest nation on earth , and we are the 4th richest.. something is VERY wrong in the state of denmark !
You want a huge flyover motorway through the middle of your city?Now give them a nice new green field site, and allow them unfettered access and the cost will drop dramatically.
India is building huge new motorways , 1.000's of miles noth north south and east west , Huge flyover motorways thru the middle of their cities.. They are amongst the poorest nation on earth , and we are the 4th richest.. something is VERY wrong in the state of denmark !
RacerMDR said:
what a load of rubbish.
I use the M25 every single day between M3 and M40 where the 'new' speed cameras are apparently enforcing the variable speed limits.
It DOES NOT WORK. IT IS A JOKE.
........
I can't be sure yet - but i'm almost certain non of the gantries actually hold a speed camera.
I shall be stopping at every single one with my digital camera and checking if these useless b
ds are lying about the tax cameras. I will publish the pictures.
It does work.I use the M25 every single day between M3 and M40 where the 'new' speed cameras are apparently enforcing the variable speed limits.
It DOES NOT WORK. IT IS A JOKE.
........
I can't be sure yet - but i'm almost certain non of the gantries actually hold a speed camera.
I shall be stopping at every single one with my digital camera and checking if these useless b
ds are lying about the tax cameras. I will publish the pictures.Did you drive around it BEFORE they introduced the system - it was bloody chaos then. I recall stop-start queuing from Hunton Bridge (A41) right round to the M4. Since it's introduction, the traffic has flowed much better.
I think that since the Highways Agency took over operating the limit, it's gone more "panic drop it to 40" a lot more, and that doesn't help. They seem to issue the same limit on both clockwise and anti-clockwise, when in the morning, your section is flowing quite/very well. The Anti-clock is suffering from too much metal, not enough tarmac disease.
As for revenue collection boxes. To my knowledge only two between the M40 and the M3 have cameras. Clockwise before the M40, and Anti-Clock after the M4 IIRC.
After the M3, can't comment - don't use is.
Blocking off the entrys to the motorway will keep the mums off of it taking their little darlings to school in their BMW's and Range Rovers. They cause untold chaos because they get on, have to be in lane 3, carve everyone up, then drive like Jim Kerr's brother Wayne, before chopping off at the next exit, carry on a phone call with their pink LG phone glued to their ear.
Or they join, and dordle, at 45, which means that Ferdinand with his load of onions from Valencia has overtake at his Euro-50mph, thus slowing lane 2.
So you see, there are differing views here. From my perspective, going Anti-Clockwise, the variable speed limit system works. From your perspective going Clockwise on a less congested section, it's a pain in the arse.
The M25 traffic control, my dear friend, is like this country. Run by complete w
rs with not one idea of how to use the tools that they have.Gassing Station | Motoring News | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff