Daytona 500 this weekend

[chrisbr68]

So I was watching Sky today and found out there was a kind of qualifier race on today which I just saw the end of. I was amazed - 100'000 spectators there to see this smaller race... on a Thursday!!

So has anyone watched it before? It has never appealed to me but I feel like watching it to see what all the fuss is about. That many people cant be completely wrong can they? Then again, baseball is popular there...

Cheers.

[flemke]

Er, might you be referring to the Daytona 500?

It's a bit different from Indy.

[chrisbr68]

flemke said:

Er, might you be referring to the Daytona 500?

It's a bit different from Indy.

Haha! Woops.. well, I got your attention - so, whats the deal with the Daytona 500 then? You know at least one thing more about it than I do.

[flemke]

chrisbr68 said:

flemke said:

Er, might you be referring to the Daytona 500?

It's a bit different from Indy.

Haha! Woops.. well, I got your attention - so, whats the deal with the Daytona 500 then? You know at least one thing more about it than I do.

What is it that you're looking to find out?
Do you know about the series, about the circuit, about the cars, about the regular drivers as well as the several well-known ones who are in the series for the first time this year?

[BigWithey]

I was at the Budweiser Shootout at Daytona on Saturday a sort of 500 warm up race, first time at NASCAR and I must admit it was bloody brilliant!!
The yanks do know how to put on an event the "redneck" crowd were as entertaining as the racing, which was very close with quite a few "names" taking part. Scott Speed (F1) was doing ok 'till he got taken out in one of those big tyre smoke everywhere crashes, and Dario Franchetti finishing in the top ten. Villeneuve and Montoya are also taking part, so all in all I think I might try and get along to another one later in the year.

http://www.daytonainternationalspeedway.com/544486...

Edited by BigWithey on Friday 15th February 01:17

[chrisbr68]

flemke said:

chrisbr68 said:

flemke said:

Er, might you be referring to the Daytona 500?

It's a bit different from Indy.

Haha! Woops.. well, I got your attention - so, whats the deal with the Daytona 500 then? You know at least one thing more about it than I do.

What is it that you're looking to find out?
Do you know about the series, about the circuit, about the cars, about the regular drivers as well as the several well-known ones who are in the series for the first time this year?

Nope, not really to in the know about those things but I know where to find that info.

I was literally looking for an opinion from anyone on here, and if they are keen on it why is it so popular over there but not at all here?

[onomatopoeia]

chrisbr68 said:

So I was watching Sky today and found out there was a kind of qualifier race on today which I just saw the end of. I was amazed - 100'000 spectators there to see this smaller race... on a Thursday!!

So has anyone watched it before? It has never appealed to me but I feel like watching it to see what all the fuss is about. That many people cant be completely wrong can they? Then again, baseball is popular there...

Cheers.

I've been watching NASCAR for a few years, been watching club racing in the UK / F1 / BTCC etc for much longer. It took me a while to appreciate it but now if I only watch one bit of motorsport in a week it will be NASCAR.

You get so much more overtaking on ovals, the amount of horsepower (850hp) vs the level of grip is so high that the cars slide around all over the place and the consequence is the potential for some very exciting racing. It doesn't always happen, at some venues the field can get strung out just like in races here, however you frequently see side by side racing throughout the event and particularly in the closing laps as most venues have at least two possible lines through the corners.

While it might superficially seem that having a 36 race season containing 34 trips to oval tracks (although calling Ponoco an oval is stretching the definition) would make it very samey, there is in fact a lot of variety. Bristol is 0.5 miles with massive banking, Martinsville is 0.5 miles with shallower banking, tight turns and narrow straights and the tracks increase in size up to Daytona at 2.5 miles and Talladega at 2.66. Those last two are so fast that the cars can run on 100% throttle all the time, so they are required to fit restrictor plates between the carb and manifold to reduce power. This leads to a very different form of racing where getting into the slipstream (or "draft" as they call it) is very important and choosing lanes equally so, making it like a game of chess played at 190 miles an hour. Generally if you are at the front of the field entering the final lap on a restrictor plate race you are a sitting duck as the cars behind should be able to build up overtaking speed in your slipstream and pass you exiting the final corner. Unless you are driving a car with 88 on the side it appears .

There are of course problems, ovals mean that any caution has to cover the full course and the format requires at least three laps under caution. The caution flag is IMO flown too frequently, although since Smoke had his rant about it last year they seem to be better about holding off a couple of seconds to see if a minor incident will clear.

That's enough rambling from me, I'll be cheering for the 8 on Sunday.

I don't get baseball though

[flemke]

onomatopoeia said:

chrisbr68 said:

So I was watching Sky today and found out there was a kind of qualifier race on today which I just saw the end of. I was amazed - 100'000 spectators there to see this smaller race... on a Thursday!!

So has anyone watched it before? It has never appealed to me but I feel like watching it to see what all the fuss is about. That many people cant be completely wrong can they? Then again, baseball is popular there...

Cheers.

I've been watching NASCAR for a few years, been watching club racing in the UK / F1 / BTCC etc for much longer. It took me a while to appreciate it but now if I only watch one bit of motorsport in a week it will be NASCAR.

You get so much more overtaking on ovals, the amount of horsepower (850hp) vs the level of grip is so high that the cars slide around all over the place and the consequence is the potential for some very exciting racing. It doesn't always happen, at some venues the field can get strung out just like in races here, however you frequently see side by side racing throughout the event and particularly in the closing laps as most venues have at least two possible lines through the corners.

While it might superficially seem that having a 36 race season containing 34 trips to oval tracks (although calling Ponoco an oval is stretching the definition) would make it very samey, there is in fact a lot of variety. Bristol is 0.5 miles with massive banking, Martinsville is 0.5 miles with shallower banking, tight turns and narrow straights and the tracks increase in size up to Daytona at 2.5 miles and Talladega at 2.66. Those last two are so fast that the cars can run on 100% throttle all the time, so they are required to fit restrictor plates between the carb and manifold to reduce power. This leads to a very different form of racing where getting into the slipstream (or "draft" as they call it) is very important and choosing lanes equally so, making it like a game of chess played at 190 miles an hour. Generally if you are at the front of the field entering the final lap on a restrictor plate race you are a sitting duck as the cars behind should be able to build up overtaking speed in your slipstream and pass you exiting the final corner. Unless you are driving a car with 88 on the side it appears .

There are of course problems, ovals mean that any caution has to cover the full course and the format requires at least three laps under caution. The caution flag is IMO flown too frequently, although since Smoke had his rant about it last year they seem to be better about holding off a couple of seconds to see if a minor incident will clear.

That's enough rambling from me, I'll be cheering for the 8 on Sunday.

Good summary.

(Btw, I think for restrictor plate races the bhp is more like 500-525.)

onomatopoeia said:

I don't get baseball though

Think cricket, but played by men, not girls.

[clonmult]

I haven't watched any Nascar (or any of the stateside racing for that matter) in years.

It was almost always considerably more entertaining than F1.

But on that note, virtually every other form of racing is more entertaining than F1. All the "interesting" stuff in F1 happens off the circuit ....

[BigWithey]

I have to say it was very close at the Shoot Out with lap after lap of 2 and 3 abreast racing, and even Jnr getting a helping push from Jimmie J (I think)into turn 4 on the last lap, not bad at 180+

[Phoenix]

The Daytona 500 is one of the events I have always promised myself I will go to one day.
I have followed NASCAR for years and think it is great entertainment. As someone has already said it's like a game of chess and 190mph. Great to see that we are (hopefully) getting some decent tv coverage this year. Good incar footage and use of split screens for pit stops. ITV could learn a thing or two.

The half mile ovals must be such hard work in those cars, at least on the big ovals you get a chance to relax/regroup on the straights but on the small ovals it must be so intense.

It looks like the CoT will provide some good close racing on the superspeedways. They do seem to move around quite a bit at Daytona over the bumps.

Dale Jnr looks to have the form so far at Daytona this year. Shame for Dario going out in the Duel.

Roll on race day.

[entropy]

Due to snobbery most people here in this part of the world don't get or appreciate oval racing.

It's easy to say those guys run round in circle for over 3 hours but there are things that makes oval racing a spectacle and better than normal circuit racing.

You can have side by side racing for multiple laps. For one thing drafting/slipstreaming seems to be a lost art these days. People mention the great days of Monza when you had to time the slipstream to perfection.

Ooh and I love the pitstops! Jacking up the car and undoing 5 lug nuts on each wheel.

[FourWheelDrift]

flemke said:

(Btw, I think for restrictor plate races the bhp is more like 500-525.)

430-460bhp.

From Nascar News:-
Dynos after 150's show Toyota's stronger: Judging from NASCAR’s post-150s chassis-dyno tests, which showed Toyota’s #20-Tony Stewart had at least a 15 horsepower edge at his rear wheels over Chevy’s #88-Dale Earnhardt Jr. in Thursday’s twin races. And Richard Childress’ Chevy engines were about 30 horsepower off the Toyotas, which is some concern in both the Childress camp and with GM officials. NASCAR didn’t post any official numbers, but Stewart’s engine - built by Mark Cronquist, head of Joe Gibbs’ motor shop - pulled around 462 to 464 effective horsepower, according to those familiar with the results. That’s about 15 horsepower more than Earnhardt had and about 30 horsepower more than Chevy’s Kevin Harvick.

[stephen300o]

entropy said:

Due to snobbery most people here in this part of the world don't get or appreciate oval racing.

It's easy to say those guys run round in circle for over 3 hours but there are things that makes oval racing a spectacle and better than normal circuit racing.

You can have side by side racing for multiple laps. For one thing drafting/slipstreaming seems to be a lost art these days. People mention the great days of Monza when you had to time the slipstream to perfection.

Ooh and I love the pitstops! Jacking up the car and undoing 5 lug nuts on each wheel.

Agree there, the NASCAR pitstops are impressive, very quick.

[thunderbelmont]

entropy said:

Due to snobbery most people here in this part of the world don't get or appreciate oval racing.

Which is why the ASCAR's are racing on road courses this season because they don't understand how to put oval racing on in this country, when you have a speedway like Rockingham, and in Germany like Lausitz.

The series has been undermined by a number of factors. One major one being a total lack of marketing. This is somewhere where NASCAR wins, they spend megabucks on it, and that's why it's so popular.

NASCAR is marketing first, entertainment second, and racing third.

Motorsport in Europe is about two things, the whim of competitors (to race things), and manufacturers marketing their brands.

From a driver's point of view - it's totally different. It's a relentless lap of 36-37 seconds at Rockingham in an ASCAR, there's no time to rest. Turn 3 is awesome, we take it flat, which is approaching 178mph (as fast as we pull before braking for T4).

If you ever get a chance to take a ride in Rockingham's 2-seater, go for it! It's an eyeopener to what a proper lap of the oval is like.

1st race for the V8 Trophy in 2008 - Snetterton, 30th March.
Full details on www.v8trophy.com

Rob.

[flemke]

FourWheelDrift said:

flemke said:

(Btw, I think for restrictor plate races the bhp is more like 500-525.)

430-460bhp.

From Nascar News:-
Dynos after 150's show Toyota's stronger: Judging from NASCAR’s post-150s chassis-dyno tests, which showed Toyota’s #20-Tony Stewart had at least a 15 horsepower edge at his rear wheels over Chevy’s #88-Dale Earnhardt Jr. in Thursday’s twin races. And Richard Childress’ Chevy engines were about 30 horsepower off the Toyotas, which is some concern in both the Childress camp and with GM officials. NASCAR didn’t post any official numbers, but Stewart’s engine - built by Mark Cronquist, head of Joe Gibbs’ motor shop - pulled around 462 to 464 effective horsepower, according to those familiar with the results. That’s about 15 horsepower more than Earnhardt had and about 30 horsepower more than Chevy’s Kevin Harvick.

Doesn't seem like much, does it? The cars are not super-slippery, either, with that rear wing. I believe that at 190 the cars generate about 500 kg of DF.
I wonder if that was the actual reading at the wheels, or they added back inferred losses?

[flemke]

thunderbelmont said:

entropy said:

Due to snobbery most people here in this part of the world don't get or appreciate oval racing.

Which is why the ASCAR's are racing on road courses this season because they don't understand how to put oval racing on in this country, when you have a speedway like Rockingham, and in Germany like Lausitz.

The series has been undermined by a number of factors. One major one being a total lack of marketing. This is somewhere where NASCAR wins, they spend megabucks on it, and that's why it's so popular.

NASCAR is marketing first, entertainment second, and racing third.

Motorsport in Europe is about two things, the whim of competitors (to race things), and manufacturers marketing their brands.

From a driver's point of view - it's totally different. It's a relentless lap of 36-37 seconds at Rockingham in an ASCAR, there's no time to rest. Turn 3 is awesome, we take it flat, which is approaching 178mph (as fast as we pull before braking for T4).

If you ever get a chance to take a ride in Rockingham's 2-seater, go for it! It's an eyeopener to what a proper lap of the oval is like.

1st race for the V8 Trophy in 2008 - Snetterton, 30th March.
Full details on www.v8trophy.com

Rob.

It has always been incomprehensible to me why people would rather sit at a bend with their view of the race restricted to about 10% of the action. They watch the cars go by, and then wait a minute (or, in the case of some circuits, several minutes) before the cars are back for another brief glimpse.
On most ovals, you can see everything all the time.

Imagine if football were played on a road course, with the fans fixed in their seats and the players returning into view every once in a while.

[HiRich]

chrisbr68 said:

So has anyone watched it before? It has never appealed to me but I feel like watching it to see what all the fuss is about. That many people cant be completely wrong can they? Then again, baseball is popular there...

Cheers.

If you have the opportunity, watch it. It takes some getting used to, but once you have a basic understanding, it's huge fun. A few pointers to help you grasp the concept.

• Slipstreaming (drafting) is everything. When two cars run close together, they both go faster. So it's highly unlikely that one car will race off into the distance. They occasionally get so close that you get "bump-drafting" - self explanatory, and part of the game.
• There are several lines - low, high, middle. High may be longer, but exit speed is higher. An overtake can be one corner, two, or even a lap or more.
• The cars change dramatically in performance over race distance, or even over a run - tyres, track temperature. Just because a particular driver is struggling now, he can still be in with a shot at the end.
• The cars may appear Jurassic, but they are very sensitive. The drivers have an incredible sensitivity to what's happening beneath them. "Push/Tight" means understeer, "loose" = oversteer.
• The cars move around a lot. You can actually see them sliding (older F1 fans might remember that). The new "Car Of Tomorrow" (or is that Car of Today?) seems to move about even more - pretty interesting 3-wide at 190mph... More, the car behind can influence the aero of the car ahead - tuck in on the left rear corner and the guy ahead's going to get very loose.
• Pit strategy is important. Changing two wheels is significantly faster than four, which can gain you track position. But 4 fresh tyres can give a huge benefit, particularly on a longer run. But sometimes they don't.
• Lucky Dog: Off a yellow, the leading lapped car is able to regain their lap. So being a lap down is not necessarily the end of your day.
• The drivers are considerably tougher than your average GP driver. In last week's Bud Shootout, one driver reported a vibration: "I think it's a loose wheel, but I'll take it to the finish..."
• It is incredibly close, especially with the yellow flags. Last year, off the final yellow, 32 cars were in with a shot at victory. At the end of the first green flag lap, 30 of them were in a different position from where they started it.
• Almost every driver is in with a shout. The legends though are Earnhardt jnr (National Guard car), Stewart (Home Depot), Jimmy Johnson (Lowe's, champion), Jeff Gordon (DuPont, hated by the earnhardt & Stewart fans). Add in Mark Martin (last of the old generation, always a favourite), Casey Kahne, and of course Wan-Parblo Montoya, Villernerve, Franchitti and Sam Hornish (all Indy 500 winners)

Also, the commentary is somewhat more entertaining than The Cock. If you can feed it through your HiFi - 43 cars steaming past the wall camera is... impressive.

So open your mind and try it. And as they say down South "Boogidy, boogidy, boogidy, let's go racing boys!!!"

[johnph]

One of the best bits of the Nationwide Series (NASCAR's second division) race last night was on one of the restarts where the commentators said 'we're now going to let you hear the sound of NASCAR' and then fell silent, the only noise being the cars and the radio traffic between the drivers and the spotters. Far better than the rambling of the cock.

[anonymous-user]

The problem with ASCAR at Rockingham is it's boring to watch. The cars arnt fast enough and there arnt enough of them on such a large circuit to generate any interest. No doubt it feels exciting from inside the car, but outside it's a snoozefest.