The Dangers Of Non-Specialist Insurers.
Discussion
(I toyed with the idea of putting this in General Gassing so if the mods think it better suited to there feel free to move it.)
First up, I'm well aware of how insurers work. The first 12 years of my working life were in claims and as a loss adjuster so I'm well aware of how the game is played. Ironically one of the reasons I gave it up was the dumbing down of the whole claims handling thing. Insurers took away any initiative from the experienced employee/adjuster long ago. I saw the signs and bailed out early.
Last year approaching renewal time I took a look at my premiums, running costs and the like and decided to make a change to limited mileage cover with two cars. The Chimaera for going to work on nice days and days off and the Golf as a hack. A-Plan, who I'd been with for a few years couldn't help me so I had to go shopping. Eventually I settled with one of the insurers that fall under the EUI Ltd umbrella. You know, the one with the nautical name
.
I felt slightly uneasy when they asked about modifications. Their response to my upgraded suspension was "By how much have you lowered it?"
but I'd spent weeks getting quotes and couldn't face it all again. If only I'd bothered.
A few weeks ago came 'The Shunt'. Insurers declared the car a total loss (to my surprise) so I sent them all my documents and links to half a dozen Chimaera 500's for sale on PH. In response (two weeks later) they sent me a derisory offer that is £5,500 below the estimated value of my car (which I quoted them at inception). No problem, this is where the bartering begins, eh? Er, no. You see they sent me a cheque which I am free to cash "without obligation" and seem to have disposed of the salvage (which I may want to buy back). It seems to me the cheque, as well as being an opening gambit, is sent to satisfy their internal performance targets of settlement within one month. It also seems to have mistakenly led them to believe that they can dispose of what is still my car.
Emailing and phoning is an extremely frustrating progress (at least it proves I was right to get out when I did). Their first line of defence is the premium rate number at 8p a minute. Sod that, I got their 'proper' landline number after the first call. Next are the gum chewing screen readers in the call centre, "Hello my name is insert name here do you have a claim or policy number what is your date of birth and post code how can I help you?"........and breathe. They then spend ten IQ sapping minutes 'reading the file' before asking me why I'm calling then ten to fifteen minutes putting me on hold (being cut off is a 50/50 option during this part) before finally announcing that my file handler is away from his desk/in a meeting/gone home/in the gents fondling himself.
Try Customer Service or as it was in my day, the Complaints Department. Yeah, right. "I'd like to speak to the manager of the Claims Department please"............"I'll put you through to claims"...."No, I'd like to speak to the manager. What is his/her name?"......"I don't know"...."Can you find out please?"........"Errrrr, I don't have that in-for-ma-tion" (they're in Cardiff).
And so on.
Just for s
ts and giggles I asked how they'd arrived at their 'valuation' and was told "The guide". Which one? Golden labrador? Sherpa? "I don't know". Then it was "advertisments". Really? Which one? I'll snap up any Chimaera 500 for that money! "I don't know" came the response. Today it was "The en-gi-ne-ers val-u-a-tion" (Isn't it? look you bach). Of course I wasn't allowed to speak to him but frankly I think he's the figment of someone's imagination.
The manager? Oh, I forgot to tell you. He or she went home at 3pm because "It's Fri-day". So that's alright then.
Good job I have a sense of humour and unboilable piss, eh? What's the industry monitoring toothless tiger these days? Is it still the IOB?
First up, I'm well aware of how insurers work. The first 12 years of my working life were in claims and as a loss adjuster so I'm well aware of how the game is played. Ironically one of the reasons I gave it up was the dumbing down of the whole claims handling thing. Insurers took away any initiative from the experienced employee/adjuster long ago. I saw the signs and bailed out early.
Last year approaching renewal time I took a look at my premiums, running costs and the like and decided to make a change to limited mileage cover with two cars. The Chimaera for going to work on nice days and days off and the Golf as a hack. A-Plan, who I'd been with for a few years couldn't help me so I had to go shopping. Eventually I settled with one of the insurers that fall under the EUI Ltd umbrella. You know, the one with the nautical name
.I felt slightly uneasy when they asked about modifications. Their response to my upgraded suspension was "By how much have you lowered it?"
but I'd spent weeks getting quotes and couldn't face it all again. If only I'd bothered.A few weeks ago came 'The Shunt'. Insurers declared the car a total loss (to my surprise) so I sent them all my documents and links to half a dozen Chimaera 500's for sale on PH. In response (two weeks later) they sent me a derisory offer that is £5,500 below the estimated value of my car (which I quoted them at inception). No problem, this is where the bartering begins, eh? Er, no. You see they sent me a cheque which I am free to cash "without obligation" and seem to have disposed of the salvage (which I may want to buy back). It seems to me the cheque, as well as being an opening gambit, is sent to satisfy their internal performance targets of settlement within one month. It also seems to have mistakenly led them to believe that they can dispose of what is still my car.
Emailing and phoning is an extremely frustrating progress (at least it proves I was right to get out when I did). Their first line of defence is the premium rate number at 8p a minute. Sod that, I got their 'proper' landline number after the first call. Next are the gum chewing screen readers in the call centre, "Hello my name is insert name here do you have a claim or policy number what is your date of birth and post code how can I help you?"........and breathe. They then spend ten IQ sapping minutes 'reading the file' before asking me why I'm calling then ten to fifteen minutes putting me on hold (being cut off is a 50/50 option during this part) before finally announcing that my file handler is away from his desk/in a meeting/gone home/in the gents fondling himself.
Try Customer Service or as it was in my day, the Complaints Department. Yeah, right. "I'd like to speak to the manager of the Claims Department please"............"I'll put you through to claims"...."No, I'd like to speak to the manager. What is his/her name?"......"I don't know"...."Can you find out please?"........"Errrrr, I don't have that in-for-ma-tion" (they're in Cardiff).
And so on.
Just for s
ts and giggles I asked how they'd arrived at their 'valuation' and was told "The guide". Which one? Golden labrador? Sherpa? "I don't know". Then it was "advertisments". Really? Which one? I'll snap up any Chimaera 500 for that money! "I don't know" came the response. Today it was "The en-gi-ne-ers val-u-a-tion" (Isn't it? look you bach). Of course I wasn't allowed to speak to him but frankly I think he's the figment of someone's imagination.The manager? Oh, I forgot to tell you. He or she went home at 3pm because "It's Fri-day". So that's alright then.
Good job I have a sense of humour and unboilable piss, eh? What's the industry monitoring toothless tiger these days? Is it still the IOB?
Sadly, that sounds like a typical tale of frustration and I'm very sorry for you. If they have disposed of the vehicle and you have not given express persmission for them to do so then I think you should have rights to redress in law. After all, it is your property until such time you 'give up' your rights to it , sell it or scrap it.
A letter is the best idea, especially recorded (shows intent) and I suggest give them a sensible timescale to respond to you before you 'consider other options' and of course as a reputable organisation you natually expect you will reach a mutally satisfying resolution.
Good luck, Dave
A letter is the best idea, especially recorded (shows intent) and I suggest give them a sensible timescale to respond to you before you 'consider other options' and of course as a reputable organisation you natually expect you will reach a mutally satisfying resolution.
Good luck, Dave
How do any of us know how we would be treated in this situation when we first take out a policy, it is a complete gamble. When anycrook.co.uk is trying to take our money they will say whatever we want to hear to get the business, when it comes to paying out..............
As far as the salvage goes, dont you accept the salvage becomes their property as soon as the vehicle becomes a total loss/uneconomical repair when you accept their T&Cs? That being the case that would be disposed of as they see fit and it will be your problem to stop it going down that path if you want a shot at buying it, writing letters may not be quick enough to stop that process - just a thought.
Out of interest, knowing what you know now who would you insure with today if you were taking out a new policy?
As far as the salvage goes, dont you accept the salvage becomes their property as soon as the vehicle becomes a total loss/uneconomical repair when you accept their T&Cs? That being the case that would be disposed of as they see fit and it will be your problem to stop it going down that path if you want a shot at buying it, writing letters may not be quick enough to stop that process - just a thought.
Out of interest, knowing what you know now who would you insure with today if you were taking out a new policy?
I agree Ribol, it is ironic but insurance does seem to be a gamble (I know that is a contradiction). You can mitigate the risk by sticking to those that seem to have the best reputations.
I think you are right that if a vehicle is a total loss, what's left becomes the property of the insurere. However, I think you have to agree it's a total loss which is part of the point in this case, that hasn't been agreed.
I forgot to post earlier, if your car has a personal plate, contact DVLA before it is officially written off or you lose retention rights (DVLA told me I should have notified them before I destroyed my car that I was going to do it I did win that one eventually though).
I think you are right that if a vehicle is a total loss, what's left becomes the property of the insurere. However, I think you have to agree it's a total loss which is part of the point in this case, that hasn't been agreed.
I forgot to post earlier, if your car has a personal plate, contact DVLA before it is officially written off or you lose retention rights (DVLA told me I should have notified them before I destroyed my car that I was going to do it
I did win that one eventually though).Every time I read a story like this I reconsider an idea I had years ago; The "Nopay Insurance Corporation". We do really impressive documentation so you can tax your car and the premiums are seriously cheap. But we're totally up-front about claims; we don't pay. At all. Ever. For anything. Don't even ask. We don't have a claims department. No-one answers the phone. In fact, it comes up "Number unobtainable".
After all, it wouldn't be that different to "real" insurance companies, except cheaper and more honest.
After all, it wouldn't be that different to "real" insurance companies, except cheaper and more honest.
Flintstone don't send by Recorded Delivery. Go the extra couple of £'s and do it by SPECIAL DELIVERY.
You can then trace it on line and prove it was there at a given time and get the signature.
Also insurance companies treat Special Deliveries with more importance and you may get a quicker response.
Recorded delivery only shows who signed for when it gets there. Go for the SD.
All the best, and next time, go with AON.
Been with them for 5 years now and cannot fault them. Has a small shunt and it was fixed within a month.
Engineer came to the house to inspect the car, give it the OK and it was such a good service.
Colin L
You can then trace it on line and prove it was there at a given time and get the signature.
Also insurance companies treat Special Deliveries with more importance and you may get a quicker response.
Recorded delivery only shows who signed for when it gets there. Go for the SD.
All the best, and next time, go with AON.
Been with them for 5 years now and cannot fault them. Has a small shunt and it was fixed within a month.
Engineer came to the house to inspect the car, give it the OK and it was such a good service.
Colin L
Zumbruk said:
Every time I read a story like this I reconsider an idea I had years ago; The "Nopay Insurance Corporation". We do really impressive documentation so you can tax your car and the premiums are seriously cheap. But we're totally up-front about claims; we don't pay. At all. Ever. For anything. Don't even ask. We don't have a claims department. No-one answers the phone. In fact, it comes up "Number unobtainable".
After all, it wouldn't be that different to "real" insurance companies, except cheaper and more honest.
You mean Ryanair are going to insurance now After all, it wouldn't be that different to "real" insurance companies, except cheaper and more honest.
Update.
After telling the obnoxious desk person who called me that I would only deal with the manager from now on I got a call from his boss that led to a civilised conversation. At the outset he wouldn't budge which in the face of the evidence I'd sent him was frustrating. Then he said something about me not having any service history. "Of course I do" "Where is it then?" "In front of me" "Why don't we have it?" "You never asked me for it"
He then raised his offer by £4000. An extra four grand for service history? So the first offer wasn't just a punt then?
I've now sent a raft of invoices showing £2000 expenditure over the last five months on suspension upgrade, induction upgrade and the like. We're just £1000 apart on what they've offered and what I'm asking for. Place your bets
After telling the obnoxious desk person who called me that I would only deal with the manager from now on I got a call from his boss that led to a civilised conversation. At the outset he wouldn't budge which in the face of the evidence I'd sent him was frustrating. Then he said something about me not having any service history. "Of course I do" "Where is it then?" "In front of me" "Why don't we have it?" "You never asked me for it"
He then raised his offer by £4000. An extra four grand for service history? So the first offer wasn't just a punt then?
I've now sent a raft of invoices showing £2000 expenditure over the last five months on suspension upgrade, induction upgrade and the like. We're just £1000 apart on what they've offered and what I'm asking for. Place your bets
Flintstone said:
Update.
After telling the obnoxious desk person who called me that I would only deal with the manager from now on I got a call from his boss that led to a civilised conversation. At the outset he wouldn't budge which in the face of the evidence I'd sent him was frustrating. Then he said something about me not having any service history. "Of course I do" "Where is it then?" "In front of me" "Why don't we have it?" "You never asked me for it"
He then raised his offer by £4000. An extra four grand for service history? So the first offer wasn't just a punt then?
I've now sent a raft of invoices showing £2000 expenditure over the last five months on suspension upgrade, induction upgrade and the like. We're just £1000 apart on what they've offered and what I'm asking for. Place your bets
Did you tell them about the suspension work?After telling the obnoxious desk person who called me that I would only deal with the manager from now on I got a call from his boss that led to a civilised conversation. At the outset he wouldn't budge which in the face of the evidence I'd sent him was frustrating. Then he said something about me not having any service history. "Of course I do" "Where is it then?" "In front of me" "Why don't we have it?" "You never asked me for it"
He then raised his offer by £4000. An extra four grand for service history? So the first offer wasn't just a punt then?
I've now sent a raft of invoices showing £2000 expenditure over the last five months on suspension upgrade, induction upgrade and the like. We're just £1000 apart on what they've offered and what I'm asking for. Place your bets
take it now before they quibble about the upgrades and cancel the policy on you!
I kid you not, I had a company which is a group, and has a name like mama, cancel a policy on me after an accident because I had non-standard headlights on an e36 M3 ! Inspector came to look at it, decided it was "modified" and I had not declared them. Policy cancelled, premium refunded, thank you and goodnight!
3500 worth of repairs out of my own pocket, not happy. and you have to declare it at every time you get a new policy as having insurance cancelled or refused.
The price you pay for "angel eyes" on your bimmer eh?
eta, I was young an niaeve{sp} at the time, would probably fight it tooth and nail these days with the insurance ombudsman. too long ago now to worry about it!
Edited by davido140 on Friday 29th February 00:22
blujay10 said:
davido140 is spot on, if you didnt tell them about the modifications even though they have improved the handling making the car a better risk
That's the problem, is it a better risk? In your opinion yes, but in the insurance world not necessarily. Playing Devil's advocate: things like better suspension and brakes mean that you can travel faster for the same level of safety but when things go wrong there's more energy to lose so potentially bigger claims.
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