SBC Engine 612 Hp in Holland
Discussion
Dear All
this is a SBC with 612 Hp i saw in Holland for sale
www.marktplaats.nl/markt/autodiversen/algemeen/18592.htm
good luck
Steve_D said:
I can't read the ad properly but it appears to be a 454 which makes it a big block Chevy which will not fit in the Ultima.
Steve
I think you're right about this particular motor, but it is possible to get 454 cubic inches from a small block chevy with the right components. Bill Mitchell actually has a 600hp crate 454 available for $9,995 with iron heads, and $10,495 with aluminum.
www.theengineshop.com/newstuff8.shtml
These high outputs have got me thinking, how much is too much? I'd think the higher output Ultima's are faster than the Le Mans racers (at least in acceleration). They're as fast as the fastest street legal/registered drag cars, except these things like the twisties too.
I've seen some figures ranging from just under 1hp/kg to over 1hp/kg. That's indy car territory heading towards F1 (about 4hp/3kg?).
To answer the Q though, 1hp/2kgs is fine for me (and maybe a bit of nitrous).
That's one reason I wanted my car turbocharged. Can run low boost on the street (say 350), ranging up to 600-700 when you want it.
I've seen some figures ranging from just under 1hp/kg to over 1hp/kg. That's indy car territory heading towards F1 (about 4hp/3kg?).
To answer the Q though, 1hp/2kgs is fine for me (and maybe a bit of nitrous).
That's one reason I wanted my car turbocharged. Can run low boost on the street (say 350), ranging up to 600-700 when you want it.
italiano said:
These high outputs have got me thinking, how much is too much? I'd think the higher output Ultima's are faster than the Le Mans racers (at least in acceleration). They're as fast as the fastest street legal/registered drag cars, except these things like the twisties too.
I've seen some figures ranging from just under 1hp/kg to over 1hp/kg. That's indy car territory heading towards F1 (about 4hp/3kg?).
To answer the Q though, 1hp/2kgs is fine for me (and maybe a bit of nitrous).
That's one reason I wanted my car turbocharged. Can run low boost on the street (say 350), ranging up to 600-700 when you want it.
It is interesting at these levels. I will have close to 7000hp with the NOS system.
If the car produces the expected 660~700hp, then with weight at around the tonne it should be marginally more powerful than the hounered Macca F1. To get it to the Formula 1 power to weight you would need a lot more than that - like Kurt Dobson's power, which must be on par. The driving experience would be as memorable
Well, well, well.
Italiano,
I never thought I would ever see you post a reply that questions how much is too much
Having said that, your comment on turbocharging and varying boost for street/strip applications makes Lots of sense.
Ive never considered dropping in a forced induction engine....till now.
Andy
Italiano,
I never thought I would ever see you post a reply that questions how much is too much
Having said that, your comment on turbocharging and varying boost for street/strip applications makes Lots of sense.
Ive never considered dropping in a forced induction engine....till now.
Andy
Well I think 1hp/kg is Indy territory, and 4hp/3kg is F1 (Formula 1, not McF1).
An Ultima with as much hp as the Mclaren should run 10s with little trouble. I'd imagine one with a similiar output to yours (ultimasimon) might get 9s.
As to my question Doc, I never said that I thought there was such a thing (as too much power) Remember the number plate I want
Still, we're a crazy bunch if you think about it. Like I said, those of us with the higher power-weight ratio's are driving street legal cars that are faster than the Le Mans racers.
An Ultima with as much hp as the Mclaren should run 10s with little trouble. I'd imagine one with a similiar output to yours (ultimasimon) might get 9s.
As to my question Doc, I never said that I thought there was such a thing (as too much power) Remember the number plate I want
Still, we're a crazy bunch if you think about it. Like I said, those of us with the higher power-weight ratio's are driving street legal cars that are faster than the Le Mans racers.
Hmmm, a big-block’s torque (as opposed to a SBC’s HP) for an Ultima? For two reasons, I’d shy away from it for a 600+ HP car (or even an older SBC):
1. If we’re talking approximately the 600+ HP level of this advertised BBC: You can easily get 600+ (streetable) HP from an LS-6 -- that’s with only a bolt-on blower kit, headers, and very mild cam. Such an LS-6’s 600+ HP is registered at a higher RPM than a typical big block’s 600+ HP (or even the RPM at which an older SBC registers its peak); for a great article on one reason why it’s better to have 600 HP @ 6000 RPM than 600 HP @ 4000 or 5000 RPM, see www.ls1.com/handt.htm . the LS-6 does that whilst getting better even BETTER fuel-economy than an older SBC, and of course the BBC -- even at 1000-2000 RPM, despite that most high-RPM engines give bad economy at low RPM’s.
But if we’re talking about "insane" HP levels: Now, of course a BBC OR a SBC can put out more than that 600+ HP...but what Ultima could take much more than 1000?? You could over-power the Ultima frame’s rating of 1000 HP with a modified, older SBC -- even on pump-gas (92 octane) -- let alone that a modified LS-6 could probably twist a seriously *beefed-up* Ultima chassis...
So who would bother with a heavy (and barely-compatible) big-block? (...aside from a funny-car team, but why would such a team bother with the Ultima, which isn’t a funny-car chassis? )
Of course, an LS- series SBC (or a BBC) is a little more pricey than an LT- or similar SBC, but the higher RPM potential (and the fact that each of its HP is worth more, *because* its power-band occurs at a higher RPM), plus its better fuel-economy (even at LOW rev’s), and its weight-savings, better harmonics, etc., in my opinion, make the LS-1 worth that moderate price-increase, especially if I’m correct about the next paragraph...
2. My understanding is that it’s the torque, not HP, which destroys transaxles the most [?], and that most “street” x-axles like the G50 become VERY expensive when you try to put more than approx. 500 lb-ft through them, which would mean that it’s most cost-efficient to start tuning a 600-HP SBC engine for peak HP in the mid-6000 RPM’s range, if you want to maintain high-HP performance with a decent-priced x-axle. [?] Of course, any higher-revving engine has some moderate costs of its own, but plenty of tuners have brought the LS-6 up to that RPM-range at lower costs than I’ve seen for any transaxle modified to take a big-block’s torque...
Oh, and a big-block will even fit a Ford Fiesta or old rear-engine Porsche (I can’t remember if I saw one in the 911, or if it was the 912...); ya just gotta be “creative”... I just don't think it "fits" conceptually...
Oh, BTW, yes I realize that no one seriously suggested a BBC, but hey... Sooner or later, someone will.
>> Edited by jhr8 on Saturday 2nd August 06:32
1. If we’re talking approximately the 600+ HP level of this advertised BBC: You can easily get 600+ (streetable) HP from an LS-6 -- that’s with only a bolt-on blower kit, headers, and very mild cam. Such an LS-6’s 600+ HP is registered at a higher RPM than a typical big block’s 600+ HP (or even the RPM at which an older SBC registers its peak); for a great article on one reason why it’s better to have 600 HP @ 6000 RPM than 600 HP @ 4000 or 5000 RPM, see www.ls1.com/handt.htm . the LS-6 does that whilst getting better even BETTER fuel-economy than an older SBC, and of course the BBC -- even at 1000-2000 RPM, despite that most high-RPM engines give bad economy at low RPM’s.
But if we’re talking about "insane" HP levels: Now, of course a BBC OR a SBC can put out more than that 600+ HP...but what Ultima could take much more than 1000??
You could over-power the Ultima frame’s rating of 1000 HP with a modified, older SBC -- even on pump-gas (92 octane) -- let alone that a modified LS-6 could probably twist a seriously *beefed-up* Ultima chassis... So who would bother with a heavy (and barely-compatible) big-block?
(...aside from a funny-car team, but why would such a team bother with the Ultima, which isn’t a funny-car chassis? ) Of course, an LS- series SBC (or a BBC) is a little more pricey than an LT- or similar SBC, but the higher RPM potential (and the fact that each of its HP is worth more, *because* its power-band occurs at a higher RPM), plus its better fuel-economy (even at LOW rev’s), and its weight-savings, better harmonics, etc., in my opinion, make the LS-1 worth that moderate price-increase, especially if I’m correct about the next paragraph...
2. My understanding is that it’s the torque, not HP, which destroys transaxles the most [?], and that most “street” x-axles like the G50 become VERY expensive when you try to put more than approx. 500 lb-ft through them, which would mean that it’s most cost-efficient to start tuning a 600-HP SBC engine for peak HP in the mid-6000 RPM’s range, if you want to maintain high-HP performance with a decent-priced x-axle. [?] Of course, any higher-revving engine has some moderate costs of its own, but plenty of tuners have brought the LS-6 up to that RPM-range at lower costs than I’ve seen for any transaxle modified to take a big-block’s torque...
Oh, and a big-block will even fit a Ford Fiesta or old rear-engine Porsche (I can’t remember if I saw one in the 911, or if it was the 912...); ya just gotta be “creative”...
I just don't think it "fits" conceptually... Oh, BTW, yes I realize that no one seriously suggested a BBC, but hey... Sooner or later, someone will.
>> Edited by jhr8 on Saturday 2nd August 06:32
italiano said:
That's one reason I wanted my car turbocharged. Can run low boost on the street (say 350), ranging up to 600-700 when you want it.
I was originally thinking of potentially filling each tank with different octanes, and having a cockpit-adjustable blow-off valve, but that seems too complex...
I'm now planning to run 600-700 on the street with 92-octane; this HP-level is also possible with a moderately-modified LT- series SBC, but why bother starting with the inferior engine and highly modifying it, when the LS is capable of similar HP-levels with bolt-ons?
How are you going to gear it? What's best for racing (i.e., redlining in first geat at about 60-70 MPH) should be making you wear out the clutch pretty badly whenever you're only putting out 350HP, sorta negating any fuel-saving by burning a very-expensive clutch...and burning it only for granny-starts, the horrors!
The alternative is to install a 1st gear typical of a 350HP/2200 lb. car, which would make you have either un-ideal gear-spreads, a lower top-speed, or the weight of a six-gear, despite that you only need a 5-gear (the last of which will also be making you burn more gas, which appears to be what you're trying to avoid by having a dual-boost setup). Since turbos typically only reduce your mileage by 1-3 mpg, and then you'd also have the expense and weight (and possible detonation-causing failure of) your boost switch, I'd simply go for 600-700 on the street: Unless you're driving 20k miles/year, you may find that the exra fuel is less expensive than what an adjustable gate costs, anyway... You can also disable your wastegate (to the always-open position) if your engine makes 300-350 HP without the blower -- but then, you still get into the above gearing problems...
...And just wait for the C6 Corvette: A similar concept (dual-modes: 1 for economy, 1 for power) is that they might toy with the “limp-home” mode to operate only 4 cylinders during highway or gridlock driving (low-power situations). And a variable intake, for 425HP...plus a few other mods. That 425 is only for the LS-1 replacement (up, from 350 HP), scheduled for summer 2004; the LS-6 replacement will come at the same time or a year later, and is rumored to have 500 HP.
>> Edited by jhr8 on Saturday 2nd August 06:50
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