Hand held mobile speed cameras
Discussion
I was stopped the other day by a lone motorbike policeman who showed me the display on his speed camera of 102. Now I'm sure I wasn't doing this speed (although I was on a 70mph dual carriageway and was probably more likely doing 85) but how can I go about proving it? Presumably just his word against mine. I've done the usual internet search this morning trying to find out the legalities and requirements but can't see the wood for the trees at this stage. If anyone could point me in the right direction that would be great. TIA
s6boy said:
I was stopped the other day by a lone motorbike policeman who showed me the display on his speed camera of 102. Now I'm sure I wasn't doing this speed (although I was on a 70mph dual carriageway and was probably more likely doing 85) but how can I go about proving it? Presumably just his word against mine. I've done the usual internet search this morning trying to find out the legalities and requirements but can't see the wood for the trees at this stage. If anyone could point me in the right direction that would be great. TIA
Three questions.Do you have a lot of spare time, and can get two or three days off work?
Do you have balls?
Do you have money - like a few grand that you may not see back if you lose the case?
From that I can tell you the best way forward.
No spare time, limited spare cash, but huge balls (only joking about the last item
). However when I feel hard done by I do stand and make a fight of it.
What I should have put in the original post was that the 'camera' he had only looked like a basic speed gun without the recording facility to show the car with over written speed/date/time etc, hence the original comment my word against his.
I've also now been reading about the 'slip' effect that can compromise a reading and bearing in mind the fact he was alone with an unsupported camera and it was windy to my mind makes me think this could have caused the difference in speed between his reading and what I was doing.
Anyway all advice would be appreciated.
). However when I feel hard done by I do stand and make a fight of it. What I should have put in the original post was that the 'camera' he had only looked like a basic speed gun without the recording facility to show the car with over written speed/date/time etc, hence the original comment my word against his.
I've also now been reading about the 'slip' effect that can compromise a reading and bearing in mind the fact he was alone with an unsupported camera and it was windy to my mind makes me think this could have caused the difference in speed between his reading and what I was doing.
Anyway all advice would be appreciated.
From an officers point of view, he would have only stopped you and given you a ticket, if he was 100% he got your car speeding. If he was at the side of the road then slip angle would not be a factor. ACPO guide lines say you should be no more then about 10ft from the kerb.
Also it is the officer opinion that you were speeding, the speed gun is to support his opinion. That is to say you have to form the opinion that a car was speeding then use the speed device.
Wind does not have an effect on the speed device, a speed is only shown on the device if the device locked on fully, I have used these in high winds and never had a problem, the only weather that effects them is heavy fog.
Also it is the officer opinion that you were speeding, the speed gun is to support his opinion. That is to say you have to form the opinion that a car was speeding then use the speed device.
Wind does not have an effect on the speed device, a speed is only shown on the device if the device locked on fully, I have used these in high winds and never had a problem, the only weather that effects them is heavy fog.
goskins17 said:
From an officers point of view, he would have only stopped you and given you a ticket, if he was 100% he got your car speeding. If he was at the side of the road then slip angle would not be a factor. ACPO guide lines say you should be no more then about 10ft from the kerb.
Also it is the officer opinion that you were speeding, the speed gun is to support his opinion. That is to say you have to form the opinion that a car was speeding then use the speed device.
Wind does not have an effect on the speed device, a speed is only shown on the device if the device locked on fully, I have used these in high winds and never had a problem, the only weather that effects them is heavy fog.
From other recent threads and past challenges, I think we can assume the officer believed the reading, but that does not necessarily mean the reading was correct, does it? Also do the ACPO guidelines actually say "no more than about 10 feet"? Sounds a bit vague to me...Also it is the officer opinion that you were speeding, the speed gun is to support his opinion. That is to say you have to form the opinion that a car was speeding then use the speed device.
Wind does not have an effect on the speed device, a speed is only shown on the device if the device locked on fully, I have used these in high winds and never had a problem, the only weather that effects them is heavy fog.
s6boy said:
No spare time, limited spare cash, but huge balls (only joking about the last item). However when I feel hard done by I do stand and make a fight of it.
What I should have put in the original post was that the 'camera' he had only looked like a basic speed gun without the recording facility to show the car with over written speed/date/time etc, hence the original comment my word against his.
I've also now been reading about the 'slip' effect that can compromise a reading and bearing in mind the fact he was alone with an unsupported camera and it was windy to my mind makes me think this could have caused the difference in speed between his reading and what I was doing.
Anyway all advice would be appreciated.
Interestingly I was driving my Tuscan when I was a 'target' too. A lot of interesting surfaces for the laser to bounce around.). However when I feel hard done by I do stand and make a fight of it. What I should have put in the original post was that the 'camera' he had only looked like a basic speed gun without the recording facility to show the car with over written speed/date/time etc, hence the original comment my word against his.
I've also now been reading about the 'slip' effect that can compromise a reading and bearing in mind the fact he was alone with an unsupported camera and it was windy to my mind makes me think this could have caused the difference in speed between his reading and what I was doing.
Anyway all advice would be appreciated.
My experience was that I researched the case myself and defended myself. A day off work. I was within a hairs width of winning - or so the clerk thought. I lost. I appealed, and had my case heard at Crown Court with a barrister. My legal costs were about £800, and the fine and costs was about £500.
I did that as oppose to taking 3 points and £60 on the principle.
However for over a ton, unless you got given a FPN by the side of the road you are going to court anyway. The courts take into account if you bend over and accept your guilt quickly by supposedly reducing your punishment and plead guilty.
My personal recommendation is to give it a shot at defending yourself. A couple of PH members have used the heavy hitting solicitors and in response the CPS have done the same and done their best to stall and generally work up the costs for you to thousands should you lose.
If you defend yourself, there is every chance that you will get a fresh faced local CPS brief, who knows little about laser devices. I helped a PHer a couple of years ago who was accused of over a ton. Through the lines of questioning I helped him with he got the operator to admit that there *was* a slight chance that the device was wrong, or the laser hit another car. He was found not guilty, and was very pleased as a ban for that or totting up would have lost him his job.
goskins17 said:
From an officers point of view, he would have only stopped you and given you a ticket, if he was 100% he got your car speeding. If he was at the side of the road then slip angle would not be a factor. ACPO guide lines say you should be no more then about 10ft from the kerb.
Also it is the officer opinion that you were speeding, the speed gun is to support his opinion. That is to say you have to form the opinion that a car was speeding then use the speed device.
Wind does not have an effect on the speed device, a speed is only shown on the device if the device locked on fully, I have used these in high winds and never had a problem, the only weather that effects them is heavy fog.
ACPO Guidelines? There is no such document. Now, if you're referring to the ACPO Code of Practice, I think you'd be hard pressed to find the word "about" in there at all.Also it is the officer opinion that you were speeding, the speed gun is to support his opinion. That is to say you have to form the opinion that a car was speeding then use the speed device.
Wind does not have an effect on the speed device, a speed is only shown on the device if the device locked on fully, I have used these in high winds and never had a problem, the only weather that effects them is heavy fog.
The view that he would only stop you if he was 100% sure is pure conjecture. You cannot say what he would do. And the fact that you have "used these" also has no relevance, as we don't know what equipment he was using.
Mattt said:
Are you being prosecuted for that speed, or were you given 3point/£60 at the roadside? I'm assuming the former, but you didnt state.
I wasn't given a receipt for what he was writing out. Apparently because I gave him my licence details there and then I would be notified by post, so presume the worst!?goskins17, I think I need to revist the lay-by because from memory he would have been more than 10 feet from the carriageway kerb. I understand what you say about the speed gun re-inforcing his opinion but it was a very quickly made decision as I was coming roung a slight left hand bend and saw him between the cars on the inside lane as I was overtaking them and because of that checked my speed. Incidently after stopping me he showed the read out on the speed gun that he'd been carrying in his left hand, clutching at straws I know but could it have been accidently activated when he got on his bike to come after me?
s6boy said:
Mattt said:
Are you being prosecuted for that speed, or were you given 3point/£60 at the roadside? I'm assuming the former, but you didnt state.
I wasn't given a receipt for what he was writing out. Apparently because I gave him my licence details there and then I would be notified by post, so presume the worst!?goskins17, I think I need to revist the lay-by because from memory he would have been more than 10 feet from the carriageway kerb. I understand what you say about the speed gun re-inforcing his opinion but it was a very quickly made decision as I was coming roung a slight left hand bend and saw him between the cars on the inside lane as I was overtaking them and because of that checked my speed. Incidently after stopping me he showed the read out on the speed gun that he'd been carrying in his left hand, clutching at straws I know but could it have been accidently activated when he got on his bike to come after me?
According to the ACPO Code of Practice, after using the laser device it needs to be placed back inside its protective briefcase before moving off, so the device does not get knocked and the alignment of the scope and laser get knocked out of line.
Timsta said:
goskins17 said:
From an officers point of view, he would have only stopped you and given you a ticket, if he was 100% he got your car speeding. If he was at the side of the road then slip angle would not be a factor. ACPO guide lines say you should be no more then about 10ft from the kerb.
Also it is the officer opinion that you were speeding, the speed gun is to support his opinion. That is to say you have to form the opinion that a car was speeding then use the speed device.
Wind does not have an effect on the speed device, a speed is only shown on the device if the device locked on fully, I have used these in high winds and never had a problem, the only weather that effects them is heavy fog.
ACPO Guidelines? There is no such document. Now, if you're referring to the ACPO Code of Practice, I think you'd be hard pressed to find the word "about" in there at all.Also it is the officer opinion that you were speeding, the speed gun is to support his opinion. That is to say you have to form the opinion that a car was speeding then use the speed device.
Wind does not have an effect on the speed device, a speed is only shown on the device if the device locked on fully, I have used these in high winds and never had a problem, the only weather that effects them is heavy fog.
The view that he would only stop you if he was 100% sure is pure conjecture. You cannot say what he would do. And the fact that you have "used these" also has no relevance, as we don't know what
equipment he was using.
Incidently after stopping me he showed the read out on the speed gun that he'd been carrying in his left hand, clutching at straws I know but could it have been accidently activated when he got on his bike to come after me?
[/quote]
The display would not show, an accidental reading, only one that had been obtained. If the gun put away before he got on the bike, the trigger would have to be pressed again, and obtain a lock on something moving at the speed he showed you.
[/quote]
The display would not show, an accidental reading, only one that had been obtained. If the gun put away before he got on the bike, the trigger would have to be pressed again, and obtain a lock on something moving at the speed he showed you.
goskins17 said:
Incidently after stopping me he showed the read out on the speed gun that he'd been carrying in his left hand, clutching at straws I know but could it have been accidently activated when he got on his bike to come after me?
The display would not show, an accidental reading, only one that had been obtained. If the gun put away before he got on the bike, the trigger would have to be pressed again, and obtain a lock on something moving at the speed he showed you. So he has the gun in his hand whilst moving on the bike!!???
If he was, then this is a case worth fighting. It is probably not the first time he has done this. The Code is clear about the precautions needed to stop the device becoming unaligned. As far as I can see the CPS will not be able to prove that it was your or any car which was targeted...
If he was, then this is a case worth fighting. It is probably not the first time he has done this. The Code is clear about the precautions needed to stop the device becoming unaligned. As far as I can see the CPS will not be able to prove that it was your or any car which was targeted...
JustinP1 said:
So he has the gun in his hand whilst moving on the bike!!???
If he was, then this is a case worth fighting. It is probably not the first time he has done this. The Code is clear about the precautions needed to stop the device becoming unaligned. As far as I can see the CPS will not be able to prove that it was your or any car which was targeted...
If that's the case where do I need to go to find this Code of practice/ procedure? Presumably I'll need to wait for the letter from the police to come through to find the make and model of the speed gun.If he was, then this is a case worth fighting. It is probably not the first time he has done this. The Code is clear about the precautions needed to stop the device becoming unaligned. As far as I can see the CPS will not be able to prove that it was your or any car which was targeted...
If you are going to defend yourself, be sure to ask for evidence that the officer's phone was off, and that any radio (on the bike or on his person) were switched so that they could not transmit.... ACPO guidelines.... the radio company will be able to say whether or not this was done, as it is recorded on the radio's record.
ACPO Code of Practice: http://www.acpo.police.uk/asp/policies/Data/RPET%2...
Courts don't care what's in it. CPS doesn't care what's in it. If you use anything in it you will have to prove that not following the CoP would definitely have affected the reading. Regarding the 10ft rule, the court will refer to the cosine effect and point out that this reduces your apparent speed and that therefore it was in your favour. Hence you were actually travelling even faster.
Courts don't care what's in it. CPS doesn't care what's in it. If you use anything in it you will have to prove that not following the CoP would definitely have affected the reading. Regarding the 10ft rule, the court will refer to the cosine effect and point out that this reduces your apparent speed and that therefore it was in your favour. Hence you were actually travelling even faster.
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