Trackday Toy - BMW M3 E36 v Integra Type R DC2
Discussion
Hi,
Help and advice needed .. I'm considering buying one of these cars as a road legal track day car
and I'd be most interested in anyones views on each cars pros and cons including handling performance and potential to upgrade etc..
Budget is modest at 5K so I'm not expecting a mint example particularly with the M3 but i don't see thats as a major problem providing its mechanically sound as i intend to strip the interior & fit roll cage etc..my upgrade budget wont be great book so "quick out the box" will be ideal. I say road legal but basically it will only have to drive to the track and back (assuming i don't prang it on the first corner.. :-) )
Any views would be greatly appreciated...
thanks in advance
Help and advice needed .. I'm considering buying one of these cars as a road legal track day car
and I'd be most interested in anyones views on each cars pros and cons including handling performance and potential to upgrade etc..
Budget is modest at 5K so I'm not expecting a mint example particularly with the M3 but i don't see thats as a major problem providing its mechanically sound as i intend to strip the interior & fit roll cage etc..my upgrade budget wont be great book so "quick out the box" will be ideal. I say road legal but basically it will only have to drive to the track and back (assuming i don't prang it on the first corner.. :-) )
Any views would be greatly appreciated...
thanks in advance
Edited by fosterp71 on Tuesday 26th February 16:27
Odd choice of 2? high revs torque free, darty free girl wheel drive banzi, vs grunty fatherland GT
Integra pos the best out the box gaywheel drive car around, the bimmer not really suited to track hard as stock, but ive tracked one & its a good laugh, have to attend to brakes tho.
If you were really careful got the right base car & chose the right bits & do the work yr self that £5k could see a nice m3 bought, decent suspension thrown on, decnet brakes on & caged up. Might need a tad more for seats & harnesses tho.
There are some howlers at the bottom end of the m3 market but are some decent examples too.
Integra pos the best out the box gaywheel drive car around, the bimmer not really suited to track hard as stock, but ive tracked one & its a good laugh, have to attend to brakes tho.
If you were really careful got the right base car & chose the right bits & do the work yr self that £5k could see a nice m3 bought, decent suspension thrown on, decnet brakes on & caged up. Might need a tad more for seats & harnesses tho.
There are some howlers at the bottom end of the m3 market but are some decent examples too.
I have had 36 m3 2 e 46 m3 and have a csl at the min so you could say I quite like m3s.
But I must say after going in my chum’s teg dc2 for me at a 5k budget I would go for the dc2.
I think it will cost half to run and be (some people will disagree) as quick on a track.
My chum runs 8.30 bridge to gantry around the ring in it.
You can get some really lift of over steer in a dc2 as well if its tail happy times you want.
Have you had a good go in both?
But I must say after going in my chum’s teg dc2 for me at a 5k budget I would go for the dc2.
I think it will cost half to run and be (some people will disagree) as quick on a track.
My chum runs 8.30 bridge to gantry around the ring in it.
You can get some really lift of over steer in a dc2 as well if its tail happy times you want.
Have you had a good go in both?
My friend and I car share our track car, E36 M3,and best choice. We paid top $ (6K) for a 1994 2 door alpine white (no sunroof) and striped out, wheels went for a lot but were breyton magic, interior ebay (Thailand!) £400.00 plus other bits ebay, we put in roll cage (welded) AP brakes KW suspension and even wrapped in BMW motorsport. You do not need to go this far but car had 115,000 miles on and now had two test runs at snetterton, very impressed, standard car 286bhp and we had digitally rolled at 283.9bhp you have to think bmw the one to go for. Understand your budget point but have you not got anyone to share costs? Go for BMW
iguana said:
Odd choice of 2? high revs torque free, darty free girl wheel drive banzi, vs grunty fatherland GT
Integra pos the best out the box gaywheel drive car around, the bimmer not really suited to track hard as stock, but ive tracked one & its a good laugh, have to attend to brakes tho.
If you were really careful got the right base car & chose the right bits & do the work yr self that £5k could see a nice m3 bought, decent suspension thrown on, decnet brakes on & caged up. Might need a tad more for seats & harnesses tho.
There are some howlers at the bottom end of the m3 market but are some decent examples too.
Early 3.0 at around £4k can be done with money in the bank to upgrade as and when. For a trackday car Pagid pads and weight loss will do wonders...Integra pos the best out the box gaywheel drive car around, the bimmer not really suited to track hard as stock, but ive tracked one & its a good laugh, have to attend to brakes tho.
If you were really careful got the right base car & chose the right bits & do the work yr self that £5k could see a nice m3 bought, decent suspension thrown on, decnet brakes on & caged up. Might need a tad more for seats & harnesses tho.
There are some howlers at the bottom end of the m3 market but are some decent examples too.
As far as engines go, they can be turned into high revving screamers too. My Evo runs to 8,000 rpm with only a set of ARP bolts. Great fun!
simple simon said:
I have had 36 m3 2 e 46 m3 and have a csl at the min so you could say I quite like m3s.
But I must say after going in my chum’s teg dc2 for me at a 5k budget I would go for the dc2.
I think it will cost half to run and be (some people will disagree) as quick on a track.
My chum runs 8.30 bridge to gantry around the ring in it.
You can get some really lift of over steer in a dc2 as well if its tail happy times you want.
Have you had a good go in both?
Driven a Type R which wa quite impressive but no M3, I know the teg is highly rated thats why i consider this a fair comparision, I want maximum bang for my bucks !, also i trying to find out the approx weight of an moderately track prepped M3, as I know the Teg comes it quite on the skinny side..But I must say after going in my chum’s teg dc2 for me at a 5k budget I would go for the dc2.
I think it will cost half to run and be (some people will disagree) as quick on a track.
My chum runs 8.30 bridge to gantry around the ring in it.
You can get some really lift of over steer in a dc2 as well if its tail happy times you want.
Have you had a good go in both?
ive got just what youre after for sale at around 9k but am think i,m going to keep it for this year.
ap,s all round,pss9's polybushed,jb flwheel,carbon airbox,schrick cams,custom mapped 335bhp 12.9 quarter mile blah blah blah loads more
you will get to 1300kgs with ease.after that it can be costly
i,ve only done 2 trackdays and even with my limited experience its a monster.56.5 around brands indy(about class a kumho mid table time) handles really well and seems to fly past most things.
heres a vx220 on ohlins with ap,s all round driven by a brands instructor following me.not bad for my second trackday and first time at brands,the instructor was well impressed
notice nothing goes past us
they are great and cant wait to get back on track this year
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyQ1PJWzXm8
ap,s all round,pss9's polybushed,jb flwheel,carbon airbox,schrick cams,custom mapped 335bhp 12.9 quarter mile blah blah blah loads more
you will get to 1300kgs with ease.after that it can be costly
i,ve only done 2 trackdays and even with my limited experience its a monster.56.5 around brands indy(about class a kumho mid table time) handles really well and seems to fly past most things.
heres a vx220 on ohlins with ap,s all round driven by a brands instructor following me.not bad for my second trackday and first time at brands,the instructor was well impressed
notice nothing goes past us
they are great and cant wait to get back on track this yearhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyQ1PJWzXm8
I've had 2 E36 M3s - a very highly modified Evo 3.2 and a ludicrously modified 3 litre 4 door. Both striped out (the 4 door of everything including dashboard + it had fg panels all round barring doors/roof/floor) so very much lighter, 1200 Kg quite possible and less if you go very extreme. Both stayed road legal and usable, though the 4 door wasn't exactly comfortable . . .
From my experience that is the single best thing to do with the car - lighteneing it - and it's not free. It will get you money back! I got £500 for the black leather & wood interior of the saloon. I used it in standard form twice - at Oulton and Donington - and it felt like a barge on sloppy 100K suspension. But lightened it really picked up and then with the suspension (new bushes all round - polybushes and AST coilovers/Whiteline ARBs etc.) far more race car like.
A very forgiving and driveable car too. The 4 door had big Stoptech brakes but the Evo had much cheaper Performance Friction front discs and pads all round and the brakes were great wet or dry.
If budget is tight I'm wondering whether a lesser model (e.g. 328) allowing money for the suspension, cage, brakes - even lightweight panels - might not be a better bet,then upgrade the engine in the future once the handling suits you and money allows?
From my experience that is the single best thing to do with the car - lighteneing it - and it's not free. It will get you money back! I got £500 for the black leather & wood interior of the saloon. I used it in standard form twice - at Oulton and Donington - and it felt like a barge on sloppy 100K suspension. But lightened it really picked up and then with the suspension (new bushes all round - polybushes and AST coilovers/Whiteline ARBs etc.) far more race car like.
A very forgiving and driveable car too. The 4 door had big Stoptech brakes but the Evo had much cheaper Performance Friction front discs and pads all round and the brakes were great wet or dry.
If budget is tight I'm wondering whether a lesser model (e.g. 328) allowing money for the suspension, cage, brakes - even lightweight panels - might not be a better bet,then upgrade the engine in the future once the handling suits you and money allows?
£5k is not enough to do this.
currently have an M3 evo E36 and a DC2 (both road cars) so can compare them both.
M3 is not very good and would struggle on a track, and I hate to think what a £5k M3 would be like.
An Integra type R on a circuit (eg Lydden, Brands or Cadwell) will run rings round most things, without even being modified.
But £5k is also bottom end of of DC2 prices so would need some money spent on it before making it your track car
currently have an M3 evo E36 and a DC2 (both road cars) so can compare them both.
M3 is not very good and would struggle on a track, and I hate to think what a £5k M3 would be like.
An Integra type R on a circuit (eg Lydden, Brands or Cadwell) will run rings round most things, without even being modified.
But £5k is also bottom end of of DC2 prices so would need some money spent on it before making it your track car
I've owned both cars, and I would say:
Depends what you want, if you want a car to provide lots of oversteer and powerslides then the M3. If you want a focused track car, then DC2.
Out of the box there is no comparison though! The DC2 was hand built, has strut braces front and rear as standard and is idealy suited to the track, larger NSX front brakes, SR recaro seats etc, etc.
The M3 is a GT car, yes it will be faster on the straights, but it's not a natural trackcar. Of course the M3 can be made to handle well, but as I said, out of the box the DC2 will offer alot more for your money.
Depends what you want, if you want a car to provide lots of oversteer and powerslides then the M3. If you want a focused track car, then DC2.
Out of the box there is no comparison though! The DC2 was hand built, has strut braces front and rear as standard and is idealy suited to the track, larger NSX front brakes, SR recaro seats etc, etc.
The M3 is a GT car, yes it will be faster on the straights, but it's not a natural trackcar. Of course the M3 can be made to handle well, but as I said, out of the box the DC2 will offer alot more for your money.
rallycross said:
£5k is not enough to do this.
currently have an M3 evo E36 and a DC2 (both road cars) so can compare them both.
M3 is not very good and would struggle on a track, and I hate to think what a £5k M3 would be like.
An Integra type R on a circuit (eg Lydden, Brands or Cadwell) will run rings round most things, without even being modified.
But £5k is also bottom end of of DC2 prices so would need some money spent on it before making it your track car
Both cars..what a lucky geezer you are !currently have an M3 evo E36 and a DC2 (both road cars) so can compare them both.
M3 is not very good and would struggle on a track, and I hate to think what a £5k M3 would be like.
An Integra type R on a circuit (eg Lydden, Brands or Cadwell) will run rings round most things, without even being modified.
But £5k is also bottom end of of DC2 prices so would need some money spent on it before making it your track car
looking thru the posts and pros/cons on both I am sort of leaning towards the DC2.track focused is my priority. I understand the budget limitations and i know you get what you pay for.. but as its only going to be for track use. I can't justify spending much more on the intial purchase of the car,I do intend to do performance upgrades on the car..do you have any recommendations as to what to upgrade first.., (I intend to do all the safety stuff first in any event)any honda specialists in the birmingham or west midlands area would be a great help or any links so i can do more research.. I really want to avoid buying a dud..!! many thanks..
Tankslider said:
I drove an E36 M3 built to your exact budget on it's first run out last week at Bedford - Iguana was there too. It put a huge grin on my face - enormous bang for buck. The dc2 is a great car, but won't compare in that company.
Did you do the work yourself ? and did you source a standard road car then prep it? I'd would be interested to know how you achieved this as most are saying its had to do for 5K, thanksThere's no doubt that the E36 is quicker, thanks to its power advantage (I remember being caught by a well-driven one in my Griff at Cadwell Park). However the DC2 is a more precise instrument and will cost less than half as much to run. If you really enjoy driving, you will probably prefer the DC2, but the lack of power may bother you eventually.
fosterp71 said:
Tankslider said:
I drove an E36 M3 built to your exact budget on it's first run out last week at Bedford - Iguana was there too. It put a huge grin on my face - enormous bang for buck. The dc2 is a great car, but won't compare in that company.
Did you do the work yourself ? and did you source a standard road car then prep it? I'd would be interested to know how you achieved this as most are saying its had to do for 5K, thanks
Hope Woosher won't mind the use of his picture, and I'll steer the owner, Simon from his normal forum onto here. Details of this build, and other M3s are on Northloop. It's like everything else, you get what you pay for, and anything that you are prepared to do yourself saves you money (assuming reasonable competence)
And while we are talking about assumption, I confess that having gone back to check - 5K hadn't covered all the labour. 6.5K is the target total, and Simon looks sent to hit it. As the car is prepped for life at the Ring, the level of prep and componetry is top notch - the weld-in cage is just epic - and the cost includes that.
You gotta go with the M3. It has so much more potential - and it's right-wheel-drive. The engine alone is worth it - just the noise when heel-and-toeing is enough. My M3 Evo cost me 5K and I've spent a grand after stripping it and getting the seats and harnesses. I'll be adding more bits as I go but at the moment it's plenty fast enough and awesome fun. And at the Ring M3s are the weapon of choice (after 911s of course!).
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