Are race teams on track days a problem?
Discussion
This stems from recent experience - witnessed as well as experienced - of 'rude' or dangerous driving on supposedly non-competitive track days by racers, often preceding meetings they were entered into, something that seems to be getting to be more common.
On several recent track days it seemed that almost half the cars booked were race cars, trailered to the event and accompanied by teams working on set ups running so quickly that several binned it (e.g. Donington last August). Given they cause sessions to be stopped (repeatedly on that day) and may not just take themselves off but could panic others into mistakes are they a threat, or should it be anything goes.
I'm interested to hear what other's have experienced/ feel and, particularly, to hear from TDOs with their perspective.
On several recent track days it seemed that almost half the cars booked were race cars, trailered to the event and accompanied by teams working on set ups running so quickly that several binned it (e.g. Donington last August). Given they cause sessions to be stopped (repeatedly on that day) and may not just take themselves off but could panic others into mistakes are they a threat, or should it be anything goes.
I'm interested to hear what other's have experienced/ feel and, particularly, to hear from TDOs with their perspective.
my personal opinion is that once you've got a paid member of staff present it's no longer a 'track day'. track days should be 'motor leisure' rather than 'motorsport'. This line is crossed when you have people who are not there for leisure purposes.
race teams fall into this category but instructors offering 1-2-1 tuition do not. equally, club racers with a mate or brother doing the spannering are OK. you'll appreciate there's a very wide grey line in the middle though.
ideally i'd like to ban race teams from some of our track days and when we're in a stronger position we may well do it. I certainly think it would give us a significant USP.
worth adding - there's a significant proportion of race teams & drivers who are as good as gold on track days. invariably it's a minority that end up giving racer types a bad name.
all IMO obviously.
Jonny
BaT
race teams fall into this category but instructors offering 1-2-1 tuition do not. equally, club racers with a mate or brother doing the spannering are OK. you'll appreciate there's a very wide grey line in the middle though.
ideally i'd like to ban race teams from some of our track days and when we're in a stronger position we may well do it. I certainly think it would give us a significant USP.
worth adding - there's a significant proportion of race teams & drivers who are as good as gold on track days. invariably it's a minority that end up giving racer types a bad name.
all IMO obviously.
Jonny
BaT
I did a trackday at oulton last year where there were a few race teams present.
At the briefing we were told,as always "no testing,no lap timing etc etc"
A race team turned up with false pit garage floor,massive snap-on tool boxes,tyre warmers,laptops,data loggers etc...if that aint testing/lap timing then i dont know what is!!! total overkill.
Ok,the cars looked and went fantastic,but they were very aggressive (overtook dangerously close!!) and thought they owned the track.
At the briefing we were told,as always "no testing,no lap timing etc etc"
A race team turned up with false pit garage floor,massive snap-on tool boxes,tyre warmers,laptops,data loggers etc...if that aint testing/lap timing then i dont know what is!!! total overkill.
Ok,the cars looked and went fantastic,but they were very aggressive (overtook dangerously close!!) and thought they owned the track.
Edited by philevo6 on Friday 29th February 20:05
Edited by philevo6 on Friday 29th February 20:06
I don't understand why race teams go to track days for a full-on assault .. I've been on both ends of this : as a paying track day driver in my own car and spannering for race cars on shakedown runs to make sure the car is ok.
I don't particularly see a problem with race cars being on track days as long as they treat it as track time and not proper testing time ie behave as if you were a track day participant.
I've done a few track days in my own car where I've certainly wished the race cars weren't there. I think you'd do very well by calling a race car ban on some of your track days Jonny, some race cars are frighteningly fast
I don't particularly see a problem with race cars being on track days as long as they treat it as track time and not proper testing time ie behave as if you were a track day participant.
I've done a few track days in my own car where I've certainly wished the race cars weren't there. I think you'd do very well by calling a race car ban on some of your track days Jonny, some race cars are frighteningly fast
I've never had any problems with 'proper' race teams who know what they're doing and are just having a shakedown, in fact I quite like having a few decent race cars around. The only problems I've seen have been with wannabe pros who turn up with some nasty old race car and generally act like they own the track, which makes it a bit difficult to police.
MSV do novice, intermediatte and experienced level track days. These seem to work OK and we have even been refused entry because we want to take one of the race cars. Maybe the track day organisers should do "No Race car" days or something along those lines. That way those that are taking their road or P&J track day cars can avoid the wrong sort of events.
We touched on this in this thread back in November.
My main problem with it is race cars with race drivers who come hooning up behind you and buzz you in a really aggressive manner to get you to let them past - even if you happen to be cornering at the time or passing someone yourself.
Or, as I put it in the previous thread:
Track days are NOT cheap test sessions and they're meant to be non-competitive. For a genuine track day attendee they are (presumably) just there to have fun and enjoy the day, whilst a race driver is there because he has a job to do. The two don't mix in my opinion.
My main problem with it is race cars with race drivers who come hooning up behind you and buzz you in a really aggressive manner to get you to let them past - even if you happen to be cornering at the time or passing someone yourself.
Or, as I put it in the previous thread:
JonRB said:
"BARRRRRP-chunter-chunter-BARRRRpppppp" <mirrors full of agressive race car with driver who thinks he's in a race> <move over> "BARRRRRRRPPPPPPP" <car disappears off in a whiff of oil and tyres before slamming the anchors on to the next guy>.
Track days are NOT cheap test sessions and they're meant to be non-competitive. For a genuine track day attendee they are (presumably) just there to have fun and enjoy the day, whilst a race driver is there because he has a job to do. The two don't mix in my opinion.
WEREWOLF said:
Should have been at Oulton yeterday.Looked more like a fun cup race day than a trackday.
And they spent most of their time getting in the way - not many of them used their mirrors! (What was the driver of that Blue one doing?)There seemed to be a huge differential between the fast Beetle drivers & the slower ones
i did a trackday at brands indy.there were a few racers there of various caliber.a couple who thought they were future lewis hamiltons but one stood out to me.
i was in an m3 and a britcar m3 turned up with team in tow.....they were f
king rubbish! all the gear and no idea as they say.they still thought they were good though because of their £ and their team.it was very funny watching them struggle around the track with that attitude
i was in an m3 and a britcar m3 turned up with team in tow.....they were f
king rubbish! all the gear and no idea as they say.they still thought they were good though because of their £ and their team.it was very funny watching them struggle around the track with that attitudeI don't think that it's too bad if there is the odd race car at a track day (so long as they adhere to track day rules), I just keep my eye open for them in my mirrors and try and stay out of their way.
I don't like it when there are a load of them on a track day, when a test day would be more appropriate.
My only two 'bad' experiences have both been at Brands Indy; many years ago I happened to share the track with the entire 'Formula Woman' field, and just over a year ago 'Windrush Motorsport' (or whatever they were called) were carrying out driver assesments for a Le Mans entry and were IMO rather too aggressive for a track day (if you are testing drivers - do it on a test day!!).
I don't like it when there are a load of them on a track day, when a test day would be more appropriate.
My only two 'bad' experiences have both been at Brands Indy; many years ago I happened to share the track with the entire 'Formula Woman' field, and just over a year ago 'Windrush Motorsport' (or whatever they were called) were carrying out driver assesments for a Le Mans entry and were IMO rather too aggressive for a track day (if you are testing drivers - do it on a test day!!).
Couple of pence from myself.
I did Oulton at the end of last year and there was a few race cars going around then and they would simply not get out of the way! However, there were plenty of non-race drivers doing exactly the same thing all day too, so I do not think this type of driving is exclusive to race drivers.
If these types of drivers were banned, then wouldn't the prices go up if they found they could not fill the gap in the list of attendees? Not something I would like, already considering the prices some dates are this year.
I like to see these race cars close at hand and to see how fast they actually are. I have also managed to blag some rides with some of the more laidback drivers, so again would be missing out if they were banned.
I did Oulton at the end of last year and there was a few race cars going around then and they would simply not get out of the way! However, there were plenty of non-race drivers doing exactly the same thing all day too, so I do not think this type of driving is exclusive to race drivers.
If these types of drivers were banned, then wouldn't the prices go up if they found they could not fill the gap in the list of attendees? Not something I would like, already considering the prices some dates are this year.
I like to see these race cars close at hand and to see how fast they actually are. I have also managed to blag some rides with some of the more laidback drivers, so again would be missing out if they were banned.
I can see Supertouring's point about the price going up but for what it's worth I'd rather pay and extra £20-30 per trackday than risk having a scrape with a racer.
On only my second trackday ever at Donington last August for an evening session, nearly half the cars there were E30 and Elise racecars. Going into some corners 3 abrest unerved me enough to stop using my P&J on track and buy a cheap track sg instead.
On only my second trackday ever at Donington last August for an evening session, nearly half the cars there were E30 and Elise racecars. Going into some corners 3 abrest unerved me enough to stop using my P&J on track and buy a cheap track s
g instead.Pork_n_Beem said:
Depends: Proper race team with a properly prepared car whose drivers use the mirrors, no problem.
Well said. Everyone is welcome, any car, any speed but follow the rules. Don't race amongst yourselves as witnessed recently or overtake on the sighting laps as done last Friday at Oulton by two of the fun cup cars 
edh said:
WEREWOLF said:
Should have been at Oulton yeterday.Looked more like a fun cup race day than a trackday.
And they spent most of their time getting in the way - not many of them used their mirrors! (What was the driver of that Blue one doing?)There seemed to be a huge differential between the fast Beetle drivers & the slower ones
Did a friday at Donni last year which was followed by the Elise trophy series next day. All the elise/exige boys (and girls) where there having a practise before the big day. Think some of them forgot it was a track day and were slipping into racing mode. This aside our main complaint was that we thought we where pretty quick around Donni and they(well most of them) kind of 'pissed on our bonfire' 
.
. I agree with the sentiment above. If you follow the rules, then fine. I have had the pleasure of sharing Spa with the Lamborghini FIA GT team on a track day and their driving was completely courteous and it was a pleasure being completely outclassed by their drivers and machines. I have also turned into the apex at Silverstone on a track day to find a 911 race car lobbing it up the inside. You'd think they could do the math and work out that barging into the apex against a non-race driver who is not expecting it and is driving a heavier car worth less than a twentieth of theirs could lead to a less than optimal outcome.
Edited by rustybin on Monday 3rd March 11:43
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