WTCC + race spoilers

[Hodgson 100]

Its that time of year again, the WTCC starts this weekend from Curitiba.I love the series but I dont like the way the rules keep being altered with all the varying wieght penalties and aero concessions to some certain teams.

[Piglet]

Oh dear, bad first race for the Chevvie boys, let's hope they do better next time!

[anonymous-user]

Be intresting to see what the bmws can do from a standing start. However i think the torque of the seats should see less of an advantage to bmw from the standing start this season.

Another thing to note is that bmw have been developing a diesel engine for their cars and said they will use it if needs be. Any thoughts on how long into the season they will use the petrol before deciding the diesel engine may be more of an advantage?

[anonymous-user]

It's a shame they allow the diesels, they sound crap and are pigs mid corner. They are bound to win at the next round too, with it's 2000ft altitude helping the Turbo's.

[FourWheelDrift]

I've added race spoilers to the title because they're bound to come, well I might be the cause.

I won't give too much away but Andy Priaulx's had a reasonable start to his 5th title year Better than his usual Curitiba's showings and better than BMW would have thought.

[Blue Meanie]

johnfelstead said:

It's a shame they allow the diesels, they sound crap and are pigs mid corner. They are bound to win at the next round too, with it's 2000ft altitude helping the Turbo's.

yes, it's awful. Ignore the fact they won, and concentrate on the sound, after all, it's just a race.

[Hodgson 100]

tux said:

Be intresting to see what the bmws can do from a standing start. However i think the torque of the seats should see less of an advantage to bmw from the standing start this season.

Another thing to note is that bmw have been developing a diesel engine for their cars and said they will use it if needs be. Any thoughts on how long into the season they will use the petrol before deciding the diesel engine may be more of an advantage?

I dont think BMW will use it , I dont think that what Seat did last year with turing up with a new engine with unlimited boost mid season went down too well with some of the other teams, especially when they have previously been exclusively allowed to use a flat bottomed floor due to the shape of the car not being condusive to good downforce. I dont think BMW would want to win like that.
At present the rear wheel drives have a heavier minimum weight limit and if they want to use a sequential box like the FWD cars they will also incur an additional weight penalty. Teams such as alfa romeo and others also got rolling starts included so there seems to be quite a bit of politics going on.
The race series needs the manufacturers commitment but the manufacturers need to be seen to be competitive so it seems the rules are adjusted to keep things close on the track.
I seem to remember at this same race last year BMW got 123 in both races and as a result of that all the FWD cars got 20kg weight reduction for the next race , it seemed a bit reactionary to me after just one race at the time.
There is a new handicap weight system being used this year so we shall have to see how the Seats work with the weight as last year the BMW's struggled with it, the Deisel engine should be able to haul the penalty weight no problem but it may effect the tyre wear and cornering speeds so it should be interesting to see how it works on the track.

[anonymous-user]

Blue Meanie said:

johnfelstead said:

It's a shame they allow the diesels, they sound crap and are pigs mid corner. They are bound to win at the next round too, with it's 2000ft altitude helping the Turbo's.

yes, it's awful. Ignore the fact they won, and concentrate on the sound, after all, it's just a race.

A large part of the apeal of a racing car is the noise it makes and how it looks in the corners. The TDi's sound awful and look nasty mid corner with all that weight up front, they also have a major advantage at altitude, the SEAT's should walk the next race because of that.

If the BMW's start racing TDi's too, it's going to detract from the spectating experience even more for people who share my opinion. Ban them i say, horible, smelly, droning things that they are.

[Blue Meanie]

Yes.. racing should just be for petrol. There should be a law. They look awful mid corner, yet still manage to win, quite comfortably. They certainly don't drone, not the ones I've heard anyway. Sound quite fruity, especially from the off.

[Piglet]

I haven't read any detail yet but apparently Farfus was excluded from race 1 for a technical infringement and Andy is now being shown as P2 for race 2 - presumably because Farfus has lost his P2 as he should have been on the back of the grid for R2 if excluded from R1?

Off to investigate now....

[johnph]

johnfelstead said:

It's a shame they allow the diesels, they sound crap and are pigs mid corner. They are bound to win at the next round too, with it's 2000ft altitude helping the Turbo's.

You seem to have completely missed the point of touring car racing.
Touring cars are havily based on road cars.
The majority of the road cars that in the type of car used by the WTCC are diesels.
Therefore if you are Mr.Seat it makes a lot of sense from a technology/marketing p.o.v to run diesels in your production derived cars.

That said, I don't think they should let the entire field run on diesel (should be a 50/50 split IMO) and they should equalise the petrols and diesels.

[AlexS]

Piglet said:

I haven't read any detail yet but apparently Farfus was excluded from race 1 for a technical infringement and Andy is now being shown as P2 for race 2 - presumably because Farfus has lost his P2 as he should have been on the back of the grid for R2 if excluded from R1?

Off to investigate now....

Andy came home 2nd in the 2nd race anyway.

[AlexS]

johnph said:

johnfelstead said:

It's a shame they allow the diesels, they sound crap and are pigs mid corner. They are bound to win at the next round too, with it's 2000ft altitude helping the Turbo's.

You seem to have completely missed the point of touring car racing.
Touring cars are havily based on road cars.
The majority of the road cars that in the type of car used by the WTCC are diesels.
Therefore if you are Mr.Seat it makes a lot of sense from a technology/marketing p.o.v to run diesels in your production derived cars.

That said, I don't think they should let the entire field run on diesel (should be a 50/50 split IMO) and they should equalise the petrols and diesels.

How do you equalise between diesels and petrols. Restrict on power (as is done with inlet restrictors) and the diesel will still have masses more torque and produce its given max power over a wider rev range. Equalise on torque and then diesels would lose out on power. Start playing with weights and someone will complain about that.

[johnph]

AlexS said:

johnph said:

johnfelstead said:

It's a shame they allow the diesels, they sound crap and are pigs mid corner. They are bound to win at the next round too, with it's 2000ft altitude helping the Turbo's.

You seem to have completely missed the point of touring car racing.
Touring cars are havily based on road cars.
The majority of the road cars that in the type of car used by the WTCC are diesels.
Therefore if you are Mr.Seat it makes a lot of sense from a technology/marketing p.o.v to run diesels in your production derived cars.

That said, I don't think they should let the entire field run on diesel (should be a 50/50 split IMO) and they should equalise the petrols and diesels.

How do you equalise between diesels and petrols. Restrict on power (as is done with inlet restrictors) and the diesel will still have masses more torque and produce its given max power over a wider rev range. Equalise on torque and then diesels would lose out on power. Start playing with weights and someone will complain about that.

Talk to IMSA, they managed to engineer a nice David vs Goliath battle between the heavy diesel Audis and the lightwieght petrol Posches in the ALMS last year. Made for some great racing.

[Piglet]

AlexS said:

Piglet said:

I haven't read any detail yet but apparently Farfus was excluded from race 1 for a technical infringement and Andy is now being shown as P2 for race 2 - presumably because Farfus has lost his P2 as he should have been on the back of the grid for R2 if excluded from R1?

Off to investigate now....

Andy came home 2nd in the 2nd race anyway.

Ahh yes, brain fade...it was early!

[anonymous-user]

johnph said:

johnfelstead said:

It's a shame they allow the diesels, they sound crap and are pigs mid corner. They are bound to win at the next round too, with it's 2000ft altitude helping the Turbo's.

You seem to have completely missed the point of touring car racing.
Touring cars are havily based on road cars.
The majority of the road cars that in the type of car used by the WTCC are diesels.
Therefore if you are Mr.Seat it makes a lot of sense from a technology/marketing p.o.v to run diesels in your production derived cars.

That said, I don't think they should let the entire field run on diesel (should be a 50/50 split IMO) and they should equalise the petrols and diesels.

I havnt missed the point about touring cars, what matters most in that game is spectator pleasing spectacle, the noise and equivilence of performance is a big part of that. Ban silencers and Cat's aswell i say.

[carbonhed]

I've just got so much respect for Priaulx. Fast, clean and usually manages to avoid the troubles that beset... well the Chevrolet's for example

That first race drive from twelth at the end of the first lap to fifth at the chequered flag... mucho respecto!