E60 - Diesel or Petrol?

[Fimbo]

A short question, but just need to set the background and explain my thinking...please bear with me.

I currently run an Audi (2.4) A6 petrol. I guess in mileage terms we do about 10k a year, split 50/50 town/motorway. Needless to say the Audi's a bit thirsty so looking at changing it.

I test drove a 525 M Sport (petrol) at the weekend - very nice and the stats suggest it will return a much better mpg than my current Audi. The thing is, I'd gone to the BMW garage with the intention of looking at something like a 525 or 530 diesel on the basis that they'd be more fuel efficient, which they are. However, they seem to cost £2-3k more than the petrol equivalent and on my sort of mileage, I reckon over the 3 years we'd keep the car, that the fuel saving I'd make on buying a diesel would be offset by the additional amount I'd have to pay for the car: on my calcs the petrol probably works out a bit cheaper.

The question is: Is depreciation going to be worse, better or about the same of petrol compared with the diesel equivalent in 3 years when I come to sell it. I know it's a crystal ball question, just wondering what you folks think.

[MazDave]

Doesn't really answer your question but don't discount the 520d until you've driven it. I'm averaging just under 45mpg - mixed driving in an Auto - way better than the 32mpg I used to get with my 525d Auto.

Sorry to add to things to consider rather than narrowing down.

Oh and don't get a manual if you're concerned about resale.

[patmahe]

I'd imagine Petrol prices will rise faster than diesel prices as its the most pollutant fuel and greenies seem to be getting their way more and more these days.

So with the price of petrol going up, more and more people will look to switch to diesel cars, also I believe that advancements in the next number of years will make older cars look very inefficient by comparison.

In short if you are worried about residual values I'd go with the diesel, fuel economy should just about offset the loss in initial purchase price and there will be a higher demand for your car making it easier to sell.

[pgilc1]

Fimbo said:

The question is: Is depreciation going to be worse, better or about the same of petrol compared with the diesel equivalent in 3 years when I come to sell it. I know it's a crystal ball question, just wondering what you folks think.

I think the diesel will always be worth proportionately more than the petrol. I did some stats off autotrader on year old 5 series to see what the spread of petrol v diesels was. Something like 95% were diesels, 60% were 520d's.

I'd buy the diesel, it will always sell again. 525i could stick a bit come resale time.

[Fimbo]

Thanks for your comments. Much appreciated. I'll have a look at the 520d - I'd discounted it simply because I didn't think an engine of that size in a car of this weight would produce enough oomph.

[Methane Bloke]

I saw a BMW presentation recently (but i can't find it know) about their diesel development and the 5 series is the biggest selling BMW diesel car in Europe with around 90% of all units sold being diesels. The 3 series was around 70% diesel and the 1 series high as well. Result was that more diesels were being sold than petrol BMWs. There is more to come as well.

Regards

Chris

[davidd]

Which is all a little worrying as there is a lot less diesel production, which means (supply and demand stuff) that it will get more expensive...

D

[zz top]

I have just posted a similar topic (see BMW 325i SE Coupe).
My 3 year old 525d M Sport has returned around 36mpg over the 65,000 miles but i am now toying with the idea of going petrol.
I will miss the 5 series, its without a doubt the best 4 door car i have ever driven.

[Fimbo]

Chris, what's influencing your decision to think about a switch back to petrol?

More generally, does anyone know where I might get hold the specification (standard and optional extras) for the 2006 model E60?

Thanks

[KenD]

Methane Bloke said:

I saw a BMW presentation recently (but i can't find it know) about their diesel development and the 5 series is the biggest selling BMW diesel car in Europe with around 90% of all units sold being diesels. The 3 series was around 70% diesel and the 1 series high as well. Result was that more diesels were being sold than petrol BMWs. There is more to come as well.

Regards

Chris

Will the ever increasing numbers of diesels have the effect of reduced residual values? Could petrol start to have increased reiduas due to rarity?
When I worked the sums out for petrol v diesel I found it was 3 years of 15000 miles per year to breakeven due to higher initial cost of car and the 6% additional cost of diesel per litre.

Ken

[Methane Bloke]

davidd said:

Which is all a little worrying as there is a lot less diesel production, which means (supply and demand stuff) that it will get more expensive...

D

More diesel is produced than petrol. More money is being made on diesel than petrol in this country, it is a lot cheaper than petrol abroad. Diesel is cheaper to produce, it's a lower fraction and needs less refining than petrol.

Regards

Chris

[Fimbo]

As mentioned already, if diesel becomes the fuel of choice for the majority of motorists, then diesel prices must surely rise (demand/supply). That is just common sense, but it is also the view of a few 'green'/eco sites that diesel prices will rise faster than petrol in the future. No reason is given for this but one assumes it is related to demand rather than tax.

Just one example: "So diesel engines will generally provide you with more miles per gallon than their equivalent petrol models.... Diesel is currently more expensive to buy than petrol, and the forecasts are that diesel prices will continue to rise more steeply than petrol in the near future". http://www.green-car-guide.com/features/petrol-die...

It's also interesting to read that there is "clean" and "clean". "Clean" as defined by the Government is less CO2, which diesels win hands down. However, petrol engines are much cleaner when it comes to nitrogen oxide and sooty particulates which cause respiratory problems.

The general concensus is that even if running costs of petrol/diesel cars turn out to be about the same (when you factor in the extra cost of the diesel fuel and the premium on diesel cars), diesel's will retain a higher proportion of their original value than a petrol equivalent and so be cheaper overall.

So I guess it looks like I'm turing towards getting my first diesel (something like a 525d M Sport or 530d M Sport)! Anyone care to persuade me otherwise?

[Methane Bloke]

KenD said:

Methane Bloke said:

I saw a BMW presentation recently (but i can't find it know) about their diesel development and the 5 series is the biggest selling BMW diesel car in Europe with around 90% of all units sold being diesels. The 3 series was around 70% diesel and the 1 series high as well. Result was that more diesels were being sold than petrol BMWs. There is more to come as well.

Regards

Chris

Will the ever increasing numbers of diesels have the effect of reduced residual values? Could petrol start to have increased reiduas due to rarity?
When I worked the sums out for petrol v diesel I found it was 3 years of 15000 miles per year to breakeven due to higher initial cost of car and the 6% additional cost of diesel per litre.

Ken

I run two BMW diesels. One was bought for business purposes so it was a no brainer driving 24000 miles a year and keeping the car for approximately three years. On top of that it was a cheap (no dearer than a petrol model) ex BMW owned car. The other, our own family car only covers 12000 miles a year so will probably recoup the cost difference but I haven't worked it out accurately. We bought the 335d because we liked the way it drives. The fact that we can get 400 miles out of a tank means time saved at the fuel pump and time is money.

I think residuals will always be better for diesels due the economy gains but also as their performance increases as well they will become more desireable.

Regards

Chris

[pgilc1]

Methane Bloke said:

I saw a BMW presentation recently (but i can't find it know) about their diesel development and the 5 series is the biggest selling BMW diesel car in Europe with around 90% of all units sold being diesels. The 3 series was around 70% diesel and the 1 series high as well. Result was that more diesels were being sold than petrol BMWs. There is more to come as well.

Regards

Chris

I'm pretty impressed with myself that i got those similar stats from checking out the split of up to one year old cars from autotraders website. :-)

Heres the extract i pulled together

Total Number of 5 Series for sale that meet the above criteria -> 408

Petrol -> 26 (6.37%)
Diesel -> 382 (93.63%)

Breakdown of petrol cars for sale

523i -> 9 (2.21%)
525i -> 10 (2.46%)
530i -> 5 (1.23%)
540i -> 0 (0.00%)
550i -> 1 (0.25%)
Other -> 1 (0.25%)

Breakdown of diesel cars for sale

520d -> 173 (42.61%)
525d -> 80 (19.70%)
530d -> 86 (21.18%)
535d -> 43 (10.53%)

Edited by pgilc1 on Tuesday 4th March 12:40