99 % in recent poll say bring back the Death Penalty.
Discussion
Title says it all really, I know there are alot of police officers on this forum and it would be interesting to have their view on this quite intense subject.
99% in a recent poll of one of the largest selling newspapers in the country recently said that they would want the death penalty back. What would your views be on this ? My personal view would possibly be yes without looking at the direct stats in regards to crime reduction. This would be for the fact that our prisons are completely full, taxation on prisons is huge also. This could be a solution for this alone. Another reason is that we have no fear for people doing crime anymore it seems, the amount of times you read that an evil nasty has done minor offences so many times before and terrorised neighbourhoods for so long that now streets of people have moved out. This crime would not be punishable like this however we could adopt Americas three strikes then your out scenario. Gun culture is on the rise aswell....
Another thing is as this is one of the largest selling newspapers in the country, how can the government ignore figures like this?
99% in a recent poll of one of the largest selling newspapers in the country recently said that they would want the death penalty back. What would your views be on this ? My personal view would possibly be yes without looking at the direct stats in regards to crime reduction. This would be for the fact that our prisons are completely full, taxation on prisons is huge also. This could be a solution for this alone. Another reason is that we have no fear for people doing crime anymore it seems, the amount of times you read that an evil nasty has done minor offences so many times before and terrorised neighbourhoods for so long that now streets of people have moved out. This crime would not be punishable like this however we could adopt Americas three strikes then your out scenario. Gun culture is on the rise aswell....
Another thing is as this is one of the largest selling newspapers in the country, how can the government ignore figures like this?
current prisons provide food, tv, weightlifting / gym equipment, nice dry and heated room
americans have got the right idea - chain gangs living in tents doing all the grafitti removal work, clearing bad areas of trash
maybe some party can make prison not a cushy place to come back to ?
who will be the executioner ?
what happens when you find a few years later that the 12 people who found someone guilty got it wrong, bit late then and as the above mentioned, realising you could die for your crime is a massive incentive not to get caught at any cost
americans have got the right idea - chain gangs living in tents doing all the grafitti removal work, clearing bad areas of trash
maybe some party can make prison not a cushy place to come back to ?
who will be the executioner ?
what happens when you find a few years later that the 12 people who found someone guilty got it wrong, bit late then and as the above mentioned, realising you could die for your crime is a massive incentive not to get caught at any cost
Scraggles said:
current prisons provide food, tv, weightlifting / gym equipment, nice dry and heated room
americans have got the right idea - chain gangs living in tents doing all the grafitti removal work, clearing bad areas of trash
maybe some party can make prison not a cushy place to come back to ?
Ever lived in one? No? Try it for a while and come back with your opinion after that. Cushy my arse.americans have got the right idea - chain gangs living in tents doing all the grafitti removal work, clearing bad areas of trash
maybe some party can make prison not a cushy place to come back to ?
It sounds a little of a paradox, but for a society to run the death penalty it needs to be both an educated and cultured society.
Britain - modern Britain - is neither.
As such, the odds of abuse, innocents going down and simple incompetance leading to mistakes ( in an area you cannot make any ) are too high. Way too high.
I can just imagine with our standards, or rather lack of, how it would develop.
People would start being put to death...minority groups would then tell us the ratio of black people to white going down is 9 to 1....the government would order the courts to send more whites to their deaths...'as we wouldn't want to offend anyone or look racist now, would we??'
Nope - we just do not have the brains or standards to run it.
Britain - modern Britain - is neither.
As such, the odds of abuse, innocents going down and simple incompetance leading to mistakes ( in an area you cannot make any ) are too high. Way too high.
I can just imagine with our standards, or rather lack of, how it would develop.
People would start being put to death...minority groups would then tell us the ratio of black people to white going down is 9 to 1....the government would order the courts to send more whites to their deaths...'as we wouldn't want to offend anyone or look racist now, would we??'
Nope - we just do not have the brains or standards to run it.
10 Pence Short said:
Scraggles said:
current prisons provide food, tv, weightlifting / gym equipment, nice dry and heated room
americans have got the right idea - chain gangs living in tents doing all the grafitti removal work, clearing bad areas of trash
maybe some party can make prison not a cushy place to come back to ?
Ever lived in one? No? Try it for a while and come back with your opinion after that. Cushy my arse.americans have got the right idea - chain gangs living in tents doing all the grafitti removal work, clearing bad areas of trash
maybe some party can make prison not a cushy place to come back to ?
i wouldn't live there
Jasandjules said:
MarcusRx8 said:
How can the government ignore figures like this?
That's easy, Nanny knows best.Do you honestly think we live in a democracy? We live in a state where those in power impart their opinions on us via the law.
And anyways, the ECHR says we can't execute, sadly.
MarcusRx8 said:
...Another thing is as this is one of the largest selling newspapers in the country, how can the government ignore figures like this?
Because it is a completely unfair and biased poll. Given the time and resources I would be able to organise pretty much any result for any poll like this simply by choosing who I am getting to respond to the poll, suitable background reading to make their decision on and a method of responding so that only those who would vehemently agree would be bothered to vote.
It is why and how SCPs canvas support for speed cameras.
For example, their letter to residents is something like:
Dear Sir/Madam,
Are you worried about your child's safety near your local roads? Statistics have shown that speed is the cause of 70% of all road deaths. We also have reports that there are a number of speeding drivers in your area and we are concerned for the safety of your children. Studies have shown that a speed camera reduces accidents by 80% at camera sites.
Would you support a speed camera in your area?
Yours,
SCP (Looking after your safety)
And voila, 95% of the local residents that voted want a speed camera, so it must be the right thing to do!
As ever, there are many sides to any mutable point.
This issue has far reaching and overly complex issues that would require a clear and detailed debate with sounds arguments offered by both sides.
I do agree in principle to re-instating the death penalty - for certain grievous crimes - but to enable the death penalty to justified then there but be NO DOUBT what so ever in the evidence offered and for the trial to be clear, argued simply and accurately for the jury to understand. Leaving the legal jargon out whilst summing up and for the jury to offer a complete majority verdict. If only one person disagrees, then the conviction would - IMO - appear to be unsafe.
However, I do not agree that all prisons in the UK are easy or "cushy" the regime is not designed to be easy, yet however, with any prisoners I would suggest there is a debt to society to be repaid for their actions. To enable this debt to be resolved, I would suggest putting them to work within the community under strict supervision, there is a suggestion here for the implementation of chain gangs.
Again another mutable point, but I think a possibility to clearing the streets of rubbish or other menial tasks could be considered. Again this would need a complete and detailed debate to establish if this was at all possible.
ECHR states that people will not be subject to humiliation and the UK has signed up to this act, so to enable the implementation of the death penalty and chain gangs then a complex and mute point will be required before any action could be taken by the government of the day.
The UK is a complex and supposedly civilized society, WE NEED TO ARGUE THE POINTS BEFORE JUMPING TO ANY CONCLUSIONS. This is what makes our society the envy of the world; we have the ability to challenge our leaders should we disagree with them.
I agree this is being eroded at an astonishing rate, but until such a time as a police state exists then I will continue to argue with the leadership of the day points that I DISAGREE WITH.
I apologise this post is so long, I feel this issue cannot be over simplified and that all the facts need to be fully established before any such judgement is passed.
This issue has far reaching and overly complex issues that would require a clear and detailed debate with sounds arguments offered by both sides.
I do agree in principle to re-instating the death penalty - for certain grievous crimes - but to enable the death penalty to justified then there but be NO DOUBT what so ever in the evidence offered and for the trial to be clear, argued simply and accurately for the jury to understand. Leaving the legal jargon out whilst summing up and for the jury to offer a complete majority verdict. If only one person disagrees, then the conviction would - IMO - appear to be unsafe.
However, I do not agree that all prisons in the UK are easy or "cushy" the regime is not designed to be easy, yet however, with any prisoners I would suggest there is a debt to society to be repaid for their actions. To enable this debt to be resolved, I would suggest putting them to work within the community under strict supervision, there is a suggestion here for the implementation of chain gangs.
Again another mutable point, but I think a possibility to clearing the streets of rubbish or other menial tasks could be considered. Again this would need a complete and detailed debate to establish if this was at all possible.
ECHR states that people will not be subject to humiliation and the UK has signed up to this act, so to enable the implementation of the death penalty and chain gangs then a complex and mute point will be required before any action could be taken by the government of the day.
The UK is a complex and supposedly civilized society, WE NEED TO ARGUE THE POINTS BEFORE JUMPING TO ANY CONCLUSIONS. This is what makes our society the envy of the world; we have the ability to challenge our leaders should we disagree with them.
I agree this is being eroded at an astonishing rate, but until such a time as a police state exists then I will continue to argue with the leadership of the day points that I DISAGREE WITH.
I apologise this post is so long, I feel this issue cannot be over simplified and that all the facts need to be fully established before any such judgement is passed.
Thanks for all your responses thus far, I find debates like this very interesting and all of your posts interesting too. Further to this though, what about the overcrowding in prisons / the tax that goes with this and the fact that some judges in courts are afraid of putting some people in jail due to the aforementioned overcrowding.
MarcusRx8 said:
Thanks for all your responses thus far, I find debates like this very interesting and all of your posts interesting too. Further to this though, what about the overcrowding in prisons / the tax that goes with this and the fact that some judges in courts are afraid of putting some people in jail due to the aforementioned overcrowding.
In the main judges will prescribe Prison even though the system is overcrowded. The reason being that 'justice' shuld be seen to be impartial, whether the prisons are full or not.As for overcrowding, Cat B/C prisons are full, but as of last summer (when the population was similar to now) there was still a bit of spare capacity in the Open prison system. The problem is that there aren't enough prisoners who are suitable for a Cat D prison (in a Cat D you can typically walk out of the front gates at more or less any time).
MarcusRx8 said:
99% in a recent poll of one of the largest selling newspapers in the country recently said that they would want the death penalty back.
I saw this as well and I love how it states in giant capital letters on the front cover that "99% of YOU say bring back death penalty!" But reading further into the small print, it's 99% of the x no. of votes from The Sun readers. The same people who buy a newspaper to gawk at a pair of boobies.http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/justice/...
If a national survey was taken I doubt very much it will be anywhere near that percentage.
Elan159 said:
Maybe we could combine this with Sharia?
NEVER - 
this sort of "legal system" is autocratic and the respondent is not put before a jury of peers. As is the UK legal system. There is no right to appeal ANY ruling.If this sort of law is implemented in the UK it will be the day DEMOCRACY DIES. I for one will leave as I will not be subject to unjust and unfounded laws or any trial tried in secret without the ability to defend myself.
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