Identify an Engine

[julian64]

Been taking my fire damaged engine apart, and I wondered if I could find out a little more about it. Who knows I might have accidently bought a 4.2 thinking it was a 4.5 as there was no inlets left to see, and I have a weird looking set of cams in it.

Can anyone tell me details of what the "TVR Exxxx MCD 4.5 AL xxxx" figures on the cylinder heads mean and where to find the actual engine number. I found a number on the block in the format "TVR Exxxx MCD" However, although the manual doesn't tell you where to find the engine number it does seem to indicate that the engine number is an eleven digit alphanumeric.

[ridds]

On the lower section of the drivers side of the engine, at eh front that contains the drive for the water, oil and PAS pumps. The engine nimber is stamped into the block here.

[julian64]

Yes but do you know the format and relatively what year an engine is from the number?

BTW it was a bad day at the office

Edited by julian64 on Saturday 8th March 17:11

Making them look like photos never works for me

Edited by julian64 on Saturday 8th March 17:13

Edited by julian64 on Saturday 8th March 17:14

[TT Tim]

Julian you better be taking 1001 photos!

I need to know which bolts go where for my rebuild!

Tim

[brogenville]

You can tell the engine capacity from the engine number, as 4.2's will start 4200, and so I assume 4.5's will start with 4500. I dont think there's any way of determining the engines build year from the engine number though, other than just by using the sequential number (that comes just after the 4200/4500) to estimate where in the total run of cerbera's made that that particular engine fits in.

[TT Tim]

brogenville said:

You can tell the engine capacity from the engine number, as 4.2's will start 4200, and so I assume 4.5's will start with 4500. I dont think there's any way of determining the engines build year from the engine number though, other than just by using the sequential number (that comes just after the 4200/4500) to estimate where in the total run of cerbera's made that that particular engine fits in.

You can't always rely on that I know of one engine at least, that's stamped as a 4.2 from the factory, but is in reality a 4.5 bottom. The only true way to identify is to take the heads off and measure the bores.

I'm guessing that's your next step Julian.

Tim

[brogenville]

TT Tim said:

brogenville said:

You can tell the engine capacity from the engine number, as 4.2's will start 4200, and so I assume 4.5's will start with 4500. I dont think there's any way of determining the engines build year from the engine number though, other than just by using the sequential number (that comes just after the 4200/4500) to estimate where in the total run of cerbera's made that that particular engine fits in.

You can't always rely on that I know of one engine at least, that's stamped as a 4.2 from the factory, but is in reality a 4.5 bottom. The only true way to identify is to take the heads off and measure the bores.

I'm guessing that's your next step Julian.

Tim

Sure, your talking about the very late 4.2's that tvr kindly fitted with 4.5 blocks. I never realized that they were actually so deceptive as to stamp them up with a false code. Ah, good old tvr...

[julian64]

Not good at taking photos as you can see . Spent most of my day chipping little bits of melted plastic off the timing chain. I start off with the best will in the world regarding photos but get lost in the work.

Next step will be taking the heads off intact.

What state is your engine in. You know you're welcome to come and have a look any time, as I take it apart?

I can't make up my mind at the mo, whether to keep standard or plumb for a 4.7 upgrade. About 4K odd from APM if I deliver him a working engine, or who knows, might have a go at boring out the block for the liners myself once I've seen what it entails, and if this engines in decent nick.

[HarryW]

brogenville said:

TT Tim said:

brogenville said:

You can tell the engine capacity from the engine number, as 4.2's will start 4200, and so I assume 4.5's will start with 4500. I dont think there's any way of determining the engines build year from the engine number though, other than just by using the sequential number (that comes just after the 4200/4500) to estimate where in the total run of cerbera's made that that particular engine fits in.

You can't always rely on that I know of one engine at least, that's stamped as a 4.2 from the factory, but is in reality a 4.5 bottom. The only true way to identify is to take the heads off and measure the bores.

I'm guessing that's your next step Julian.

Tim

Sure, your talking about the very late 4.2's that tvr kindly fitted with 4.5 blocks. I never realized that they were actually so deceptive as to stamp them up with a false code. Ah, good old tvr...

To add to the confusion I think early 4.5's had 4200 serial numbers with GT added at the end of it to designated it as a 4.5 . Yet more confusion some very early 4.5's has billet cranks but they still had the smaller journal like the 4.2's. The only way to find out is to take it apart measure the bore and have a poke around.

[HarryW]

julian64 said:

Not good at taking photos as you can see . Spent most of my day chipping little bits of melted plastic off the timing chain. I start off with the best will in the world regarding photos but get lost in the work.

Wouldn't it be easier to get a new chain

julian64 said:

.....

I can't make up my mind at the mo, whether to keep standard or plumb for a 4.7 upgrade. About 4K odd from APM if I deliver him a working engine, or who knows, might have a go at boring out the block for the liners myself once I've seen what it entails, and if this engines in decent nick.

4.7's............. I think you may find its a 4.5 with a stroked crank. The expense is the crank which I believe is billet.

Edited by HarryW on Sunday 9th March 00:12

[julian64]

HarryW said:

julian64 said:

Not good at taking photos as you can see . Spent most of my day chipping little bits of melted plastic off the timing chain. I start off with the best will in the world regarding photos but get lost in the work.

Wouldn't it be easier to get a new chain

julian64 said:

.....

I can't make up my mind at the mo, whether to keep standard or plumb for a 4.7 upgrade. About 4K odd from APM if I deliver him a working engine, or who knows, might have a go at boring out the block for the liners myself once I've seen what it entails, and if this engines in decent nick.

4.7's............. I think you may find its a 4.5 with a stroked crank. The expense is the crank which I believe is billet.

Edited by HarryW on Sunday 9th March 00:12

According to andy at APM he has to machine the block for new liners, so I assumed he was talking about bore not stroke.

For the life of me I've been round this engine with giant torch and still can't find this engine number , not even with ridds help above. Maybe its that covered in rubbish.

The chain was welded in plastic to the engine. Chipping it out was the only way to get it to say goodbye to the engine. A new chain is almost certainly on the shopping list unless there is a special way of suddenly freeing it from the plastic now its off.

What interested me was the camshafts which don't look the same as my 2000LW. The longitudinal ridges between the cams aren't the same, and from a cursory exam the profile of the cams themselves looks different.

Hence trying to find out how old this engine is. It was sold to me as a late 4.5, but I'm now starting to have doubts.

[TT Tim]

Julian, I have, as you know, a 4.2 in 'kit' form along with a garage load of spares, if you want me to bring some over to compare and examine I'm more than happy to. Least I can do.

There's a lot more room in your garage/workshop than mine - Olly will attest to that.

Tim

PS: No, I know what i meant, an early 4.2 with 4.5 bottom end.

[ridds]

Engine number is here.

[pic]http://homepage.ntlworld.com/matt.riddles/index.html/Cerb/DSC01420.JPG[pic]

It won't tell you engine capacity though as I'm sure my 4.5 is labled as a 4200.

There is a thread on how to decode them somewhere, it'll give you rough build date and engine build serial number.

[Slinky]

ridds said:

Engine number is here.



It won't tell you engine capacity though as I'm sure my 4.5 is labled as a 4200.

There is a thread on how to decode them somewhere, it'll give you rough build date and engine build serial number.

[itsallyellow]

HarryW said:

julian64 said:

Not good at taking photos as you can see . Spent most of my day chipping little bits of melted plastic off the timing chain. I start off with the best will in the world regarding photos but get lost in the work.

Wouldn't it be easier to get a new chain

julian64 said:

.....

I can't make up my mind at the mo, whether to keep standard or plumb for a 4.7 upgrade. About 4K odd from APM if I deliver him a working engine, or who knows, might have a go at boring out the block for the liners myself once I've seen what it entails, and if this engines in decent nick.

4.7's............. I think you may find its a 4.5 with a stroked crank. The expense is the crank which I believe is billet.

Edited by HarryW on Sunday 9th March 00:12

Mine isnt a stroked crank.

Mike

[trackcar]

It's an unusual picture of your fire damaged engine Julian .. the chain guides are toast but the alternator belt seems untouched!

[julian64]

trackcar said:

It's an unusual picture of your fire damaged engine Julian .. the chain guides are toast but the alternator belt seems untouched!

Even more strange when you consider there aren't any combustibles in front of the engine. You would expect the fire to start with fuel rail meaning the alternator belt would be the first thing to go.

[ridds]

trackcar said:

It's an unusual picture of your fire damaged engine Julian .. the chain guides are toast but the alternator belt seems untouched!

I noticed that too. Alt belt fine and dandy yet the guides are goo.

[julian64]

Thanks to you ridds I finally found the engine number. although there are threads on the VIN I can't find anything that links an engine number to a year.

Thankfully the burnt out engine has the 450 prefix and the 1608 is actually a larger number that the 1323 on my 2000 model Cerb so it actually might be a later engine .

[HarryW]

itsallyellow said:

HarryW said:

julian64 said:

Not good at taking photos as you can see . Spent most of my day chipping little bits of melted plastic off the timing chain. I start off with the best will in the world regarding photos but get lost in the work.

Wouldn't it be easier to get a new chain

julian64 said:

.....

I can't make up my mind at the mo, whether to keep standard or plumb for a 4.7 upgrade. About 4K odd from APM if I deliver him a working engine, or who knows, might have a go at boring out the block for the liners myself once I've seen what it entails, and if this engines in decent nick.

4.7's............. I think you may find its a 4.5 with a stroked crank. The expense is the crank which I believe is billet.

Edited by HarryW on Sunday 9th March 00:12

Mine isnt a stroked crank.

Mike

That's interesting, always understood the 4.7 to be a longer throw crank a bit like the 4.3 RV8's. I didn't think there was enough room to put much bigger liners in, especially at the rear of the block.
Should have known, I know Andy knows n times more about these things and if he says it is needed it must be right