Power from a BBC
Discussion
Right, I know its a bit of an open ended question, but say I wanted to get 800HP out of a all motor 454 BBC, what would I need to do?
ATM I have a 2 bolt hi perf block,
Standard steel crank,
set of standard length (6.125)H beam rods (think capable of 850hp),
Standard Pistons
1.70 Ratio ally roller rockers
Triple spring Valve springs
Standard (I think Cam)
Standard Iron heads
an aftermarket manifold and a Predator carb
So could I use the block, crank and heads, and what sort of cam / pistons / bore size would I need
Also what would the stock engine but with the manifold and carb likely achieve powerwise?
Thanks
Dave
ATM I have a 2 bolt hi perf block,
Standard steel crank,
set of standard length (6.125)H beam rods (think capable of 850hp),
Standard Pistons
1.70 Ratio ally roller rockers
Triple spring Valve springs
Standard (I think Cam)
Standard Iron heads
an aftermarket manifold and a Predator carb
So could I use the block, crank and heads, and what sort of cam / pistons / bore size would I need
Also what would the stock engine but with the manifold and carb likely achieve powerwise?
Thanks
Dave
Edited by Dnac on Wednesday 12th March 08:21
Edited by Dnac on Wednesday 12th March 13:32
Dnac said:
BennettRacing said:
Dave, first thing i'd do is look for a 4 bolt block
You will need some better heads too
Sorry if it sounds blunt
No worries, its the truth I need, so whats the most I could get from the two bolt block do you think? I have Arp Bolts in the bottom endYou will need some better heads too
Sorry if it sounds blunt
you can convert a 2 bolt block to take 4 bolt caps, (aftermarket caps)
Since my dragster build (13 years and counting!) is stalled due to mortgage and family commitments I'm helping my mate build a door car powered by BBC/glide combo.
Bottom line he and I have bought loads of books between us; SBC ones by Vizard and the old TSR glide book for the dragster and BBC + Dave Morgans doorslammer book and others for the door car.
Books offer the opportunity to consider something at leisure and think about the big picture. Well matched parts make horsepower not sexy name parts used without due consideration.
One good thing that is in the back of the BBC book recommended is an ET calculator based on HP and weight and I reckon your proposed 800HP motor would have the ability to push your car faster than it will certify (7.50 was mentioned although I stand to be corrected) if my memory of previous threads about chassis is correct.
While Luke obviously knows what he is talking about considering on track achievements, one breakage due to bad advice from someone who talks the talk without the knowledge will make the cost of a book look like nothing.
Cheers Jon
Bottom line he and I have bought loads of books between us; SBC ones by Vizard and the old TSR glide book for the dragster and BBC + Dave Morgans doorslammer book and others for the door car.
Books offer the opportunity to consider something at leisure and think about the big picture. Well matched parts make horsepower not sexy name parts used without due consideration.
One good thing that is in the back of the BBC book recommended is an ET calculator based on HP and weight and I reckon your proposed 800HP motor would have the ability to push your car faster than it will certify (7.50 was mentioned although I stand to be corrected) if my memory of previous threads about chassis is correct.
While Luke obviously knows what he is talking about considering on track achievements, one breakage due to bad advice from someone who talks the talk without the knowledge will make the cost of a book look like nothing.
Cheers Jon
Dnac said:
Right, I know its a bit of an open ended question, but say I wanted to get 800HP out of a all motor 454 BBC, what would I need to do?
ATM I have a 2 bolt hi perf block,
Standard steel crank,
set of standard length (6.125)H beam rods (think capable of 850hp),
Standard Pistons
1.70 Ratio ally roller rockers
Triple spring Valve springs
Standard (I think Cam)
Standard Iron heads
an aftermarket manifold and a Predator carb
So could I use the block, crank and heads, and what sort of cam / pistons / bore size would I need
Also what would the stock engine but with the manifold and carb likely achieve powerwise?
Thanks
Dave
You need to buy a good book on BB chevy's to learn the fundamentals of engine building.ATM I have a 2 bolt hi perf block,
Standard steel crank,
set of standard length (6.125)H beam rods (think capable of 850hp),
Standard Pistons
1.70 Ratio ally roller rockers
Triple spring Valve springs
Standard (I think Cam)
Standard Iron heads
an aftermarket manifold and a Predator carb
So could I use the block, crank and heads, and what sort of cam / pistons / bore size would I need
Also what would the stock engine but with the manifold and carb likely achieve powerwise?
Thanks
Dave
Read through and you will see some of your parts choices are in left field...A good engine is always a wise choice of parts and quality assembly.If i were you i'd take some pro advice from one of the engine builders in the UK...
Also some of the trans info in the TSR book is a lot out of date and could take you down the wrong path....
Dnac said:
yeah, but why spend money on a book, when I can ask my drag racing family??? and more than likely get better advice
Don't be lazy. You get good advice on a forum like PH but a lot more from literature. Spend the £14, don't be cheap 
It's money well spent, you should see my bookcase. Are you going to post every time you have a simple question, if so we'll get tired of hearing from you anbd the replies will dry up. Where will you be then?I'll come back and recommend two books for you, both available from Amazon at £13.95 each.
This one I linked before http://www.amazon.co.uk/How-Build-Performance-Chev... and http://www.amazon.co.uk/Chevrolet-Block-Parts-Inte...
If you're a true tightwad like me you can get them cheaper by buying the used books that Amazon also advertises.
These two books are worth at least their weight in fivers and will set you on the right path.
If you're looking for a consistent strong bracket motor to push an altered that will weigh, what, a maximum 2000lb to some pretty exciting ETs, then you'll find all the answers you need for your first combination right in those books without wasting your hard earned cash on potentially dubious advice from some no-real-name on the internet, plus you'll get a good appreciation of the physics and maths you'll need to employ so you can dial the car well enough to start going rounds.
Andy, accepted the TSR book is dated (Christ, I bought mine from Dave Pils wqhen he ran Rooster Racing so that shows how long I've had it !!) what reccomendation do you make for fresher literature ? Sourcing stuff from the left side of the pond is no problem as my sister lives in Canada.
This one I linked before http://www.amazon.co.uk/How-Build-Performance-Chev... and http://www.amazon.co.uk/Chevrolet-Block-Parts-Inte...
If you're a true tightwad like me you can get them cheaper by buying the used books that Amazon also advertises.
These two books are worth at least their weight in fivers and will set you on the right path.
If you're looking for a consistent strong bracket motor to push an altered that will weigh, what, a maximum 2000lb to some pretty exciting ETs, then you'll find all the answers you need for your first combination right in those books without wasting your hard earned cash on potentially dubious advice from some no-real-name on the internet, plus you'll get a good appreciation of the physics and maths you'll need to employ so you can dial the car well enough to start going rounds.
Andy, accepted the TSR book is dated (Christ, I bought mine from Dave Pils wqhen he ran Rooster Racing so that shows how long I've had it !!) what reccomendation do you make for fresher literature ? Sourcing stuff from the left side of the pond is no problem as my sister lives in Canada.
Dan, doesn't seem like 13 years huh ?
Yeah, that was an interesting journey home from Milton Keynes to Suffolk with two metres of dragster overhanging each end of the car, in the dusk and later the pitch dark, especially the blind left turn in Apsley Guise !
There were some interesting turbulence noises from the top of the car that scared the crap out of me for the first few miles as well !
Bent the neighbours roof rack too !
Yeah, that was an interesting journey home from Milton Keynes to Suffolk with two metres of dragster overhanging each end of the car, in the dusk and later the pitch dark, especially the blind left turn in Apsley Guise !
There were some interesting turbulence noises from the top of the car that scared the crap out of me for the first few miles as well !
Bent the neighbours roof rack too !
It's fixable... said:
Dan, doesn't seem like 13 years huh ?
Yeah, that was an interesting journey home from Milton Keynes to Suffolk with two metres of dragster overhanging each end of the car, in the dusk and later the pitch dark, especially the blind left turn in Apsley Guise !
There were some interesting turbulence noises from the top of the car that scared the crap out of me for the first few miles as well !
Bent the neighbours roof rack too !
Ha! I remember you driving off with that Red rag on the back flapping about...Yeah, that was an interesting journey home from Milton Keynes to Suffolk with two metres of dragster overhanging each end of the car, in the dusk and later the pitch dark, especially the blind left turn in Apsley Guise !
There were some interesting turbulence noises from the top of the car that scared the crap out of me for the first few miles as well !
Bent the neighbours roof rack too !
I had never considered the roads you must of taken, Aspley Guise with a 200'' dragster on the roof must of been an interesting sight...
Well, i hope to see it back out again one day, good car with a lot of history in the States.
Dan, I keep collecting the odd part as funds allow, but paying all the other bills takes priority at the moment !
In all honesty by the time I'm ready to screw it back together the chassis will probably be illegal in part or whole, but at least it focusses the mind and makes it easier to "convince" the wife about about a chassis update, read "new chassis" in the future.
The long car chassis jig in the garage is 16' long and ready to go once all the crap stacked on it is cleared away and the door car is on a 10' x 4' cast iron surface plate I "rescued" from work so all I need to do is get out the details of your dads car or call MarkWilliams for chassis plans when the time comes.
While we're on about chassis, I'd appreciate Dnac's advice about whether any of the tubes listed at http://www.willingale-tubes.com/boiler_tubes_speci... are OK for chassis construction as I have a pipeline into that source of supply...
Cheers Jon
In all honesty by the time I'm ready to screw it back together the chassis will probably be illegal in part or whole, but at least it focusses the mind and makes it easier to "convince" the wife about about a chassis update, read "new chassis" in the future.
The long car chassis jig in the garage is 16' long and ready to go once all the crap stacked on it is cleared away and the door car is on a 10' x 4' cast iron surface plate I "rescued" from work so all I need to do is get out the details of your dads car or call MarkWilliams for chassis plans when the time comes.
While we're on about chassis, I'd appreciate Dnac's advice about whether any of the tubes listed at http://www.willingale-tubes.com/boiler_tubes_speci... are OK for chassis construction as I have a pipeline into that source of supply...
Cheers Jon
LOL, what you need to do is buy SFI 2.7B, only kidding!!!
Seriously looking at the SFI rules for a mild steel chassis it states that the steel should be manufactured to ASTM A519 or A513, whereas the tubes on the website are different, unfortunatly I don't know how the difference in specification of the steel would affect the strength and durability of the finished welded chassis.
Suggest talking to someone like Andy Robinson, who should have a better idea on how the different material specifications will affect the car.
Seriously looking at the SFI rules for a mild steel chassis it states that the steel should be manufactured to ASTM A519 or A513, whereas the tubes on the website are different, unfortunatly I don't know how the difference in specification of the steel would affect the strength and durability of the finished welded chassis.
Suggest talking to someone like Andy Robinson, who should have a better idea on how the different material specifications will affect the car.
Now you've identified the nub of the problem.
OK so SFI compliant chassis have to be done in material compliant to ASTM A519 or A513.
What about MSA taggable chassis that fall outside of SFI regs ?
For instance say Super Comp dragster, no SFI chassis or cage requirements there, so is ASTM A519 or A513 still required for MSA rules, or are other specs allowed ?
If so, which ones, as the rules just state Cold Drawn Seamless to my memory.
I seem to remember that (UK specification) CFS3BK is the one scrutineers prefer, but it isn't called out by name in the rules is it ?
Are there mechanical strength criterion which show which materials are acceptable ?
Possibly a revision to the rules to better clarify things ?
Confused in Suffolk
OK so SFI compliant chassis have to be done in material compliant to ASTM A519 or A513.
What about MSA taggable chassis that fall outside of SFI regs ?
For instance say Super Comp dragster, no SFI chassis or cage requirements there, so is ASTM A519 or A513 still required for MSA rules, or are other specs allowed ?
If so, which ones, as the rules just state Cold Drawn Seamless to my memory.
I seem to remember that (UK specification) CFS3BK is the one scrutineers prefer, but it isn't called out by name in the rules is it ?
Are there mechanical strength criterion which show which materials are acceptable ?
Possibly a revision to the rules to better clarify things ?
Confused in Suffolk
It's fixable... said:
Andy, accepted the TSR book is dated (Christ, I bought mine from Dave Pils wqhen he ran Rooster Racing so that shows how long I've had it !!) what reccomendation do you make for fresher literature ? Sourcing stuff from the left side of the pond is no problem as my sister lives in Canada.
There isn't any fresher literature on building a glide that i know of,in fact no other than the TSR manual.Not saying everything is old and not worth reading in that manual,but there's stuff in there that never should have been in and stuff that is outdated/not applicable to todays trans...Power through these transmissions has moved on so much.Where folks were putting 1200hp 10 years ago has gone to near on 3000hp now!!
My info has come from our own R+D in conjunction with Hutch trans's vast knowledge and parts and Racetuf's OZ parts.Believe me i've spent a LOT R+D'ing...
Sorry i can't help more.....
It's fixable... said:
Now you've identified the nub of the problem.
OK so SFI compliant chassis have to be done in material compliant to ASTM A519 or A513.
What about MSA taggable chassis that fall outside of SFI regs ?
For instance say Super Comp dragster, no SFI chassis or cage requirements there, so is ASTM A519 or A513 still required for MSA rules, or are other specs allowed ?
If so, which ones, as the rules just state Cold Drawn Seamless to my memory.
I seem to remember that (UK specification) CFS3BK is the one scrutineers prefer, but it isn't called out by name in the rules is it ?
Are there mechanical strength criterion which show which materials are acceptable ?
Possibly a revision to the rules to better clarify things ?
Confused in Suffolk
Thats why I sugested talking to someone like Andy, as its not mentioned in the MSA book, it just quotes mild steel or Chromemoly, OK so SFI compliant chassis have to be done in material compliant to ASTM A519 or A513.
What about MSA taggable chassis that fall outside of SFI regs ?
For instance say Super Comp dragster, no SFI chassis or cage requirements there, so is ASTM A519 or A513 still required for MSA rules, or are other specs allowed ?
If so, which ones, as the rules just state Cold Drawn Seamless to my memory.
I seem to remember that (UK specification) CFS3BK is the one scrutineers prefer, but it isn't called out by name in the rules is it ?
Are there mechanical strength criterion which show which materials are acceptable ?
Possibly a revision to the rules to better clarify things ?
Confused in Suffolk
The problem I have is knowing what welding the joint would do to the particular steel the tubes on the website are made from, for all I know it could make them brittle and risk a stress breakage, as I am no expert in Material technology.
It may be fine, but I am not going to say it will be if i don't know for sure.
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