5th Gear - Let em know what we think........
Discussion
Okay
here is the link to the 5th Gear website - all those that arent
related by birth to the Knob end that is Plato please feel free to post
your comments!
http://fifthgearforum.five.tv/jsp/5gmain.jsp?lnk=a...
ariba!
here is the link to the 5th Gear website - all those that arent
related by birth to the Knob end that is Plato please feel free to post
your comments!
http://fifthgearforum.five.tv/jsp/5gmain.jsp?lnk=a...
ariba!
TBH it was a hatchet job as he's only interested in cars you can pose in but I can't see how posting something on the 5th Gear forum will achieve much. If anything it does the programme's (admittedly low) credibility no favours as even Top Gear are sensible enough to get balance from Hammond and May when Clarkson has a go at Porkers.
I thought it was quite a well balanced review... all those who dispute the fact are s2-loving g'heyers who should either decide to do it properly and buy a s1 or come out of the closet fully and buy an Audi TT or Porsche Cockster.
right... i'm off to hunt out a nice low mileage S2 111S...
right... i'm off to hunt out a nice low mileage S2 111S...
....but in all seriousness...
the S1 was the purest example of the concept... the S2 was arguably a little more 'accessible' and therefore opened up the elise legend to a wider audience (which is good).
the problem we have now is that the s3 is well overdue and lotus are diluting the product by adding more and more bits to the s2 concept in a badly thought-out attempt to grab custom from other markets... they are therefore in danger of being neither one thing or the other with the car.
with that in mind, whilst Plato is undoubtedly a cock, surely his comments regarding price and comparisons to the cockster are not necessarily irrelevant?
crikey... that was almost a serious post...
bugger
the S1 was the purest example of the concept... the S2 was arguably a little more 'accessible' and therefore opened up the elise legend to a wider audience (which is good).
the problem we have now is that the s3 is well overdue and lotus are diluting the product by adding more and more bits to the s2 concept in a badly thought-out attempt to grab custom from other markets... they are therefore in danger of being neither one thing or the other with the car.
with that in mind, whilst Plato is undoubtedly a cock, surely his comments regarding price and comparisons to the cockster are not necessarily irrelevant?
crikey... that was almost a serious post...
bugger
always thought 5th gear was s
te and that confirmed it!
even if he had a point about the heater and radio positioning, though why would you want the bloody radio on when you can listen to the engine!
and he must be some funny shape if he cant get comfy probat seats are like gloves. knobjocky!!!!!!!!!!!
te and that confirmed it!even if he had a point about the heater and radio positioning, though why would you want the bloody radio on when you can listen to the engine!
and he must be some funny shape if he cant get comfy probat seats are like gloves. knobjocky!!!!!!!!!!!
minor5 said:
always thought 5th gear was ste and that confirmed it!
even if he had a point about the heater and radio positioning, though why would you want the bloody radio on when you can listen to the engine!
and he must be some funny shape if he cant get comfy probat seats are like gloves. knobjocky!!!!!!!!!!!
all of that is forgiveable in a car with sublime handling which doesn't cost the earth... pump up the price to porsche levels and piss about with the concept, and all of a sudden these things might start to matter... from a commercial point of view of course.te and that confirmed it!even if he had a point about the heater and radio positioning, though why would you want the bloody radio on when you can listen to the engine!
and he must be some funny shape if he cant get comfy probat seats are like gloves. knobjocky!!!!!!!!!!!
I thought that the review came across as balanced, as said on the other thread, I'm sure he knows a bit about setting up a car! Driving position is subjective, some like and some don't. His ergonomics discussion was reasonable, there are issues and we all know that.
But most of all I can't say for certain that I agree with him as I havent driven the car!! I'm also doubt very much that all the people calling him a cock have driven the car either. I guess drive it and make your own choice and people should remove the rose-tinted specs. Lotus's are good, we all love them but they are not the best cars in the world and some of the issues that people do put up with, and have in the past in particular, are unacceptable in a modern market. That, I think, is the point he was making and it is one that Lotus are going to have to learn for the Eagle/Espirit!
But most of all I can't say for certain that I agree with him as I havent driven the car!! I'm also doubt very much that all the people calling him a cock have driven the car either. I guess drive it and make your own choice and people should remove the rose-tinted specs. Lotus's are good, we all love them but they are not the best cars in the world and some of the issues that people do put up with, and have in the past in particular, are unacceptable in a modern market. That, I think, is the point he was making and it is one that Lotus are going to have to learn for the Eagle/Espirit!
I know it runs against a lot of the feeling in this forum and in SELOC, but some of the points he made have some validity, when you consider the target audience, of the programme itself and to some extent the car.
If Lotus are going to continue to be sucessful, it can't go-on selling <1000 cars a year, so it will have to broaden the appeal of its cars to people who can afford to spend 30k+ on a product which, lets face it is a luxury.. nobody "needs" a Lotus. While there are loads of die-hard Lotus fans out there that couldn't face life without a Lotus (me-included) there aren't enough of us to guarantee Lotus' financial security (unless we all buy a new one every year), so the mainstream models (Elise and presumably the Eagle) will need to be able to steal customers who would have bought a boxster/s2000/tt etc.
I drove a mates' boxster 2.5 (similar age and mileage to my S1 and not a huge difference in cost) a few weeks back.. and I couldn't help but think that for the 90% of the time that I'm not using my car on track or on a run, life with that boxster could be a whole lot easier. I think that's pretty much where Plato was coming from... for those people who just fancy a cheeky sports car, unless they up their game, a Lotus is always is always going to be harder to justify than a similarly priced boxster.
If Lotus are going to continue to be sucessful, it can't go-on selling <1000 cars a year, so it will have to broaden the appeal of its cars to people who can afford to spend 30k+ on a product which, lets face it is a luxury.. nobody "needs" a Lotus. While there are loads of die-hard Lotus fans out there that couldn't face life without a Lotus (me-included) there aren't enough of us to guarantee Lotus' financial security (unless we all buy a new one every year), so the mainstream models (Elise and presumably the Eagle) will need to be able to steal customers who would have bought a boxster/s2000/tt etc.
I drove a mates' boxster 2.5 (similar age and mileage to my S1 and not a huge difference in cost) a few weeks back.. and I couldn't help but think that for the 90% of the time that I'm not using my car on track or on a run, life with that boxster could be a whole lot easier. I think that's pretty much where Plato was coming from... for those people who just fancy a cheeky sports car, unless they up their game, a Lotus is always is always going to be harder to justify than a similarly priced boxster.
village idiot said:
I thought it was quite a well balanced review... all those who dispute the fact are s2-loving g'heyers who should either decide to do it properly and buy a s1 or come out of the closet fully and buy an Audi TT or Porsche Cockster.
right... i'm off to hunt out a nice low mileage S2 111S...
Have you decided against having your S1 sprayed pink then? I thought that's the kind of thing that 'you lot' go for. right... i'm off to hunt out a nice low mileage S2 111S...
village idiot said:
the problem we have now is that the s3 is well overdue and lotus are diluting the product by adding more and more bits to the s2 concept in a badly thought-out attempt to grab custom from other markets... they are therefore in danger of being neither one thing or the other with the car.
Fair point, but they also can't win in some ways - people moan about not having enough power and how much better Honda conversions etc. are, when they come up with a car with more power people moan that it's too far from the original concept. Surely there are a range of options now to suit different tastes, from the base S which is more 'concept' up to the SC which is faster but heavier. I agree that Lotus are clutching at straws in some repects - the ridiculous amount of special editions which are churned out almost monthly are a bit desperate. minor5 said:
i dont think i could live with the porch's service costs and the fact that if I had a boxter people would always think I was a sorry sort who couldn't aford a real porch (911)or any of its derivatives.
If you want an affordable porch then I suggest that you ring round a few different builders to get a range of quotes and watch out, there are some cowboys out there. (Sorry, couldn't resist 
)I have only seen 5th gear a few times and was bored to tears by its very, very poor man's attempt at Top Gear.
The supremely childish men presenters, brought to their senses by the token know-all woman presenter, is so unoriginal ( yet depressingly obvious ) it makes you want to weep.
Remember though, that by writing you let Fifth Gear know that you watch the programme and that the wannabe Clarkson and 'trendy' style works. Cue more dumbed down presenting, men getting sillier and sillier as women are portrayed as geniuses, and more borderline rudeness as is the norm today.
The very best thing to do is not watch the programme, not fall prey to a quite deliberate and thought out wind up ploy....and just drive your car in peace and, preferably, sunshine!
The supremely childish men presenters, brought to their senses by the token know-all woman presenter, is so unoriginal ( yet depressingly obvious ) it makes you want to weep.
Remember though, that by writing you let Fifth Gear know that you watch the programme and that the wannabe Clarkson and 'trendy' style works. Cue more dumbed down presenting, men getting sillier and sillier as women are portrayed as geniuses, and more borderline rudeness as is the norm today.
The very best thing to do is not watch the programme, not fall prey to a quite deliberate and thought out wind up ploy....and just drive your car in peace and, preferably, sunshine!
I'll direct you to my comments on the main 5th Gear thread yesterday....
"Plato has never given an Elise a good review. Even the Original didn't float his boat so I didn't expect anything but a Bad review. The problem is that he's the ONLY tester to make those complaints so it's hard to quantify them. In the end the evidence is biased more towards the Elise and you have to disregard Plato's view as it's so far out of step with his peer's."
It's a bit like one passenger on the A380 yesterday complaining about the legroom and service despite the remaining 479 thinking it's great!!
"Plato has never given an Elise a good review. Even the Original didn't float his boat so I didn't expect anything but a Bad review. The problem is that he's the ONLY tester to make those complaints so it's hard to quantify them. In the end the evidence is biased more towards the Elise and you have to disregard Plato's view as it's so far out of step with his peer's."
It's a bit like one passenger on the A380 yesterday complaining about the legroom and service despite the remaining 479 thinking it's great!!
S Works said:
I think he made a bunch of fair points. All the posts about it have made me PMSL @ all the die-hard fanclub who can't be objective and think Lotus can do no wrong.
I disagree with him about the driving position gripes, but the other points he made were fair and reasonable IMO.
fair comment...I disagree with him about the driving position gripes, but the other points he made were fair and reasonable IMO.
I personally do not like big-nose, but his specific grips of the car are spot on IMHO, namely:
1) it's way to expencive
2) it wheelspins way too much (although LSD is not the answer I would go for)
3) the seating pssition is s
t for some of us (the more padding they add the worse it get's)Scuffers said:
S Works said:
I think he made a bunch of fair points. All the posts about it have made me PMSL @ all the die-hard fanclub who can't be objective and think Lotus can do no wrong.
I disagree with him about the driving position gripes, but the other points he made were fair and reasonable IMO.
fair comment...I disagree with him about the driving position gripes, but the other points he made were fair and reasonable IMO.
I personally do not like big-nose, but his specific grips of the car are spot on IMHO, namely:
1) it's way to expencive
2) it wheelspins way too much (although LSD is not the answer I would go for)
3) the seating pssition is s
t for some of us (the more padding they add the worse it get's) His points were very fair I thought. Every criticism he had is either recognised as a criticism by Lotus owners or just ignored. He wasn't actually wrong about anything.Gassing Station | Elise/Exige/Europa/340R | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff