F1 launch control still legal?
Discussion
They also had lots of time to practice going round corners before the season starterd, but red mist tends to mean at least one or two make little mistakes (Massa, Raikkonen and Glock found cornering challenging at certain points when the red mist was obscuring their vision).
I reckon they've found a way round it.
I will watch the start in Malaysia with interest, to support my 'conspiracy' theory!
I reckon they've found a way round it.
I will watch the start in Malaysia with interest, to support my 'conspiracy' theory!
Yes, but that's not traction control. There would still have to be a lot of torque to be able to do the first lap without looking like a turtle.
If I had to rely on my drivers to control the launch and let them have a quick first lap, I'd pick that. The alternative is to have an ideal low-torque map stuck for 90 seconds with my driver losing half a dozen places.
If I had to rely on my drivers to control the launch and let them have a quick first lap, I'd pick that. The alternative is to have an ideal low-torque map stuck for 90 seconds with my driver losing half a dozen places.
You only really need a low torque / de-sensitised throttle map below a certain RPM though, just enough to get you off the line and moving. If you could pull away at say 8-10k RPM you could still have the normal map up at 15k+ so as not to hinder the car during rest of the 90 seconds they need to keep that map active for.
Edited by LocoBlade on Wednesday 19th March 22:29
Jungles said:
If I had to rely on my drivers to control the launch and let them have a quick first lap, I'd pick that. The alternative is to have an ideal low-torque map stuck for 90 seconds with my driver losing half a dozen places.
Is this what happened to Hamilton?I'm still really disappointed that 'traction control' seems to still be a part of starts. Not a spinning tyre in sight yet again.
Will they still be allowed 'start maps' (traction control to all intents and purposes!) next season?
There isn't any form of traction control.
There are 'start maps' which limit the performance of the engine, but this is passive as in it doesn't respond to wheelspin and doesn't do anything but slow the car down once on the move.
This weekend, as far as I'm aware, Hamilton put the car into the wrong mode at the start and initiated the anti stall, rather than the 'start map' sequence.
With regards to the smoke from wheelspin, these drivers with these tyres aren't going to create huge plumes of smoke unless they do it purposely. Even on the dummy start at the beginning of the warm up lap you don't see much smoke as they lay down some rubber.
There are 'start maps' which limit the performance of the engine, but this is passive as in it doesn't respond to wheelspin and doesn't do anything but slow the car down once on the move.
This weekend, as far as I'm aware, Hamilton put the car into the wrong mode at the start and initiated the anti stall, rather than the 'start map' sequence.
With regards to the smoke from wheelspin, these drivers with these tyres aren't going to create huge plumes of smoke unless they do it purposely. Even on the dummy start at the beginning of the warm up lap you don't see much smoke as they lay down some rubber.
Ok ok...so lets call it 'start mode'.
I remain disappointed that drivers are still getting electronic help to get off the line.
Also all this frantic "brake bias adjustment" that goes on between corners.
Is Martin on the money there, or are the drivers really changing 'modes' or 'maps' between corners, which do a similar electronic aid function for corner exit grip as the 'start mode' does for the starts?
Massa was twiddling away like DJ on a mixing desk all GP...and I didn't see him lose traction once.
Or am I just being overly cynical, and the current crop of F1 drivers are the best in history?
I remain disappointed that drivers are still getting electronic help to get off the line.
Also all this frantic "brake bias adjustment" that goes on between corners.
Is Martin on the money there, or are the drivers really changing 'modes' or 'maps' between corners, which do a similar electronic aid function for corner exit grip as the 'start mode' does for the starts?
Massa was twiddling away like DJ on a mixing desk all GP...and I didn't see him lose traction once.
Or am I just being overly cynical, and the current crop of F1 drivers are the best in history?
10 Pence Short said:
There isn't any form of traction control.
There are 'start maps' which limit the performance of the engine, but this is passive as in it doesn't respond to wheelspin and doesn't do anything but slow the car down once on the move.
This weekend, as far as I'm aware, Hamilton put the car into the wrong mode at the start and initiated the anti stall, rather than the 'start map' sequence.
With regards to the smoke from wheelspin, these drivers with these tyres aren't going to create huge plumes of smoke unless they do it purposely. Even on the dummy start at the beginning of the warm up lap you don't see much smoke as they lay down some rubber.
I thought LH said he did not have the car in Launch Control at the start of the race, which then put the car into anti stall when he tried to pull away. As I see it Launch control is still a driver add, and if the driver is being helped to move away then that is just a diffrent form of traction control and should be band.There are 'start maps' which limit the performance of the engine, but this is passive as in it doesn't respond to wheelspin and doesn't do anything but slow the car down once on the move.
This weekend, as far as I'm aware, Hamilton put the car into the wrong mode at the start and initiated the anti stall, rather than the 'start map' sequence.
With regards to the smoke from wheelspin, these drivers with these tyres aren't going to create huge plumes of smoke unless they do it purposely. Even on the dummy start at the beginning of the warm up lap you don't see much smoke as they lay down some rubber.
waynepixel said:
I thought LH said he did not have the car in Launch Control at the start of the race, which then put the car into anti stall when he tried to pull away. As I see it Launch control is still a driver add, and if the driver is being helped to move away then that is just a diffrent form of traction control and should be band.
Not "launch control" but a "launch map". My understanding is that there are various different fuel/engine maps etc. which are optimised for different scenarios: race start, save fuel, max performance, etc.That is very different from "launch control" where wheel spin is automatically monitored and used to automatically control the engine for optimum launch.
Get Karter said:
Ok ok...so lets call it 'start mode'.
I remain disappointed that drivers are still getting electronic help to get off the line.
Also all this frantic "brake bias adjustment" that goes on between corners.
Is Martin on the money there, or are the drivers really changing 'modes' or 'maps' between corners, which do a similar electronic aid function for corner exit grip as the 'start mode' does for the starts?
Massa was twiddling away like DJ on a mixing desk all GP...and I didn't see him lose traction once.
Or am I just being overly cynical, and the current crop of F1 drivers are the best in history?
You can't change engine maps between corners. The start mode stays on for 90 seconds, so the engineers/drivers can't make it too friendly otherwise they'll be turtles for a whole lap. In fact, I don't think drivers can change engine maps during a race because they need a laptop plugged into the car to do that. The ECU stores a normal engine map and another map just for the starts (and as I said earlier, the starting map stays on for 90 seconds after the race start).I remain disappointed that drivers are still getting electronic help to get off the line.
Also all this frantic "brake bias adjustment" that goes on between corners.
Is Martin on the money there, or are the drivers really changing 'modes' or 'maps' between corners, which do a similar electronic aid function for corner exit grip as the 'start mode' does for the starts?
Massa was twiddling away like DJ on a mixing desk all GP...and I didn't see him lose traction once.
Or am I just being overly cynical, and the current crop of F1 drivers are the best in history?
As for brake bias adjustments, I'm actually surprised drivers can still afford to divert their attention for that. You can adjust brake bias on-the-fly in other racing categories too, but most drivers are too busy driving.
Joe911 said:
waynepixel said:
I thought LH said he did not have the car in Launch Control at the start of the race, which then put the car into anti stall when he tried to pull away. As I see it Launch control is still a driver add, and if the driver is being helped to move away then that is just a diffrent form of traction control and should be band.
Not "launch control" but a "launch map". My understanding is that there are various different fuel/engine maps etc. which are optimised for different scenarios: race start, save fuel, max performance, etc.That is very different from "launch control" where wheel spin is automatically monitored and used to automatically control the engine for optimum launch.
Edited by waynepixel on Monday 7th April 12:16
Still seems to me a nonsense that we were promised no launch control....but they never mentioned they'd be replaced by 'start maps', which to all intents and purposes seem to have the same effect as launch control, albeit through a different electronic mechanism.
Why can you only have 2 maps on an ECU anyway...what's the limiting factor?
Why can you only have 2 maps on an ECU anyway...what's the limiting factor?
waynepixel said:
So what you saying is that F1 teams are using different fuel/engine map at the start of the race, "launch map". This is still helping the driver move away from the start of the grid, and is a driver add, if the driver had complete control of the car at the start of the race, then trust me, there would be smoke coming from the tries?
But surely on that basis a clutch is a driver aid, and so is paddle-shift, and a steering wheel? And changing the brake bias at will must be a driver aid too?I'm not saying what is right/wrong - I was commenting just on what I understood to be allowed at the moment.
Even the ECU in a Perodua Nippa has the ability to store and utilise multiple maps. I believe I'm correct in saying that the FIA mandated McLaren ECU has less "channels" than those used before - whether that limits the number of maps that can be stored is something I don't know.
I'd speculate that the teams are not banned from switching maps "dynamically" and is it not also feasible that Massa was changing the nature of the diff'...or have electronic diffs now been banned?
From what I have seen this year, no team seems to have yet found a way of circmventing those elemements of tracton control or engine braking that prevented the loose rear ends and the requirements of the driver to wait for the car to settle before booting the throttle that we have seen in the first 3 GPs this year. I certainly saw some more "classic" racing lines in-car at Sepang, particularly from Webber.
I'd speculate that the teams are not banned from switching maps "dynamically" and is it not also feasible that Massa was changing the nature of the diff'...or have electronic diffs now been banned?
From what I have seen this year, no team seems to have yet found a way of circmventing those elemements of tracton control or engine braking that prevented the loose rear ends and the requirements of the driver to wait for the car to settle before booting the throttle that we have seen in the first 3 GPs this year. I certainly saw some more "classic" racing lines in-car at Sepang, particularly from Webber.
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