RE: Tata Buys Jaguar Land Rover
Thursday 27th March 2008
Tata has bought Jaguar and Land Rover from Ford for £1.15bn.
Tata Buys Jaguar Land Rover
Indian firm pays £1.15bn for British brands
It has long been expected that the Indian firm would buy the luxury brands after negotiations started last June.
Unions had backed the acquisition saying that it would be in the best interests of workers, although there was speculation that Tata would look to sell Jaguar quickly.
Ford is said to be contributing up to approximately £300million to the Jaguar Land Rover pension plans.
Commenting on the agreement, chairman of Motors, Ratan Tata, said: ‘We are very pleased at the prospect of Jaguar and Land Rover being a significant part of our automotive business.
‘We have enormous respect for the two brands and will endeavour to preserve and build on their heritage and competitiveness, keeping their identities intact.
‘We aim to support their growth, while holding true to our principles of allowing the management and employees to bring their experience and expertise to bear on the growth of the business.’
Alan Mulally, the president and chief executive of Ford, said he was ‘confident’ that the brands would thrive under Tata's ownership.
‘Now, it is time for Ford to concentrate on integrating the Ford brand globally, as we implement our plan to create a strong Ford Motor Company that delivers profitable growth for all,’ he said.
Roger Maddison, Unite National Officer for the automotive industry, said: ‘Today's deal is really good news for the UK automotive industry and the thousands of people who work for Land Rover Jaguar and its' supply chain.
‘Unite has secured written guarantees for all five UK plants on staffing levels, employee terms and conditions, including pensions, and sourcing agreements. The sale ensures our members futures and we look forward to working with Tata.’
Discussion
And I thought it was bad enough Ford owning them. Oh well, if it's between this and them going under this is better but I still think it's a shame it can't be British owned. I feel a bit ashamed, really. How come India can make it work but we can't? France, Italy, Germany etc have strong car industries...why not us?
THe headline on this is that TATA have stated no changes to the UK operating model and no job cuts for the next 3 years. I'm expecting to see a gradual offshoring of production/component manufacture take place over years 2 and 3 followed by massive job cuts and relocation to India by 2012. Anyone agree?
The economics of modern car production could make this inevitable. India has a growing manufacturing base - Suzuki/Maruti, Ford and others make cars there. It may not be as swift as you think, though, because the transport infrastructure in India is still weak and it has massive bureaucracy issues. More red tape than you'd ever believe possible.
[quote=not the stig,,,]THe headline on this is that TATA have stated no changes to the UK operating model and no job cuts for the next 3 years. I'm expecting to see a gradual offshoring of production/component manufacture take place over years 2 and 3 followed by massive job cuts and relocation to India by 2012. Anyone agree?
[/quote]
I agree totally, makes no sense to keep expensive production here and it would move production closer to emerging markets like china.
I am not sure I agree with the TATA is actually TAT bashing on previous treads, as India has thousands of talented engineers leaving universities every year. I work in the computer industry where you often have Indian degree qualified staff servicing basic support calls. Perhaps you would have engineering degree qualified staff on production lines in India
.
[/quote]
I agree totally, makes no sense to keep expensive production here and it would move production closer to emerging markets like china.
I am not sure I agree with the TATA is actually TAT bashing on previous treads, as India has thousands of talented engineers leaving universities every year. I work in the computer industry where you often have Indian degree qualified staff servicing basic support calls. Perhaps you would have engineering degree qualified staff on production lines in India
.Edited by mrk4thom on Thursday 27th March 10:39
Jaguar under TATA ownership would be worse than Ford IMO. While it's too early to speculate what will happen one thing is certain, in the same way that people perceive anything built in Germany is quality, consumers will run a mile from a 'Prestige' marque if it was built in the likes of India/China.
Bikes are the same, people go for the likes of Honda/Suzuki/Yamaha/Harley/Ducati because they're well known and could be trusted...not made in some random place where a company no one has heard of.
Expect Jaguar residuals to plummet now for sure. Like Northern Rock, it takes years to build a reputation but so easy to lose it in an instant.
Bikes are the same, people go for the likes of Honda/Suzuki/Yamaha/Harley/Ducati because they're well known and could be trusted...not made in some random place where a company no one has heard of.
Expect Jaguar residuals to plummet now for sure. Like Northern Rock, it takes years to build a reputation but so easy to lose it in an instant.
amare32 said:
Jaguar under TATA ownership would be worse than Ford IMO.
Why would Jaguar struggle?Vehicles are still being built in the same plants, by the same people / robots.
In fact, you could argue that TATA will not have the mass market ethos that Ford had for Jaguar, and allow it to move back into the "Premium" sector once more.
Podie said:
amare32 said:
Jaguar under TATA ownership would be worse than Ford IMO.
In fact, you could argue that TATA will not have the mass market ethos that Ford had for Jaguar, and allow it to move back into the "Premium" sector once more.
It was reported months ago that TATA didn't really want Jaguar, but had to take it to buy Land Rover.
Jaguar lose money. How long will TATA want to lose money. Jaguar need new cars. The XF is a start, but they need more new design cars. Cost? £Billions.
As said above, I expect Jaguar to be sold pretty quickly.
As for no job cuts until 2011? It'll take them 3 years to build new production plants and train staff in India.
Predicament:
Pay British worker £500 a week to build car
or
Pay Indian worker £500 a year to do the same job?
Goodbye British workforce.
Jaguar lose money. How long will TATA want to lose money. Jaguar need new cars. The XF is a start, but they need more new design cars. Cost? £Billions.
As said above, I expect Jaguar to be sold pretty quickly.
As for no job cuts until 2011? It'll take them 3 years to build new production plants and train staff in India.
Predicament:
Pay British worker £500 a week to build car
or
Pay Indian worker £500 a year to do the same job?
Goodbye British workforce.
My 2p..
Unsure of the Jag Sell off (JCB is often mentioned), but hopefully this Tata bashing will be unfounded, as $2bn is a lot of Dosh to spend just to run a company in the ground. Tata have so far been proven to have a good business head on them. You forget that in fact they already own Corus (formerly British Steel) who provide the steel to plants such as Longbrige, so they're already involved in the process - it's not such a daft acquisition as you may believe, and in Jag, FMC have actually turned a real quality blighted monster to a possible running business - no mean feat if you knew what state Jag was in when they bought it (and I know it was a hell of a shock for Ford at the time).
As for production in India? I wouldn't bet against it, but hopefully we'd keep production in the UK for Europe & the US, and then why couldn't India produce for their own market, Chine etc etc? Now that would make sense...
Unsure of the Jag Sell off (JCB is often mentioned), but hopefully this Tata bashing will be unfounded, as $2bn is a lot of Dosh to spend just to run a company in the ground. Tata have so far been proven to have a good business head on them. You forget that in fact they already own Corus (formerly British Steel) who provide the steel to plants such as Longbrige, so they're already involved in the process - it's not such a daft acquisition as you may believe, and in Jag, FMC have actually turned a real quality blighted monster to a possible running business - no mean feat if you knew what state Jag was in when they bought it (and I know it was a hell of a shock for Ford at the time).
As for production in India? I wouldn't bet against it, but hopefully we'd keep production in the UK for Europe & the US, and then why couldn't India produce for their own market, Chine etc etc? Now that would make sense...
What is it with PH these days? No matter what the subject every board is dominated by nay sayers and people spouting bile and conjecture, negative to the point of disconnection from the available facts and generally ill informed.
What has happened here? JLR has been bought by a new company looking to take the brands forward, and is released from a previous company which had neither the money nor the inclination to continue on. Ford has left things in reasonable shape with the new XF, LR turning a profit and Jag set to do so in the relatively near future.
The new company has the necessary cash and the expertise in management to start a new chapter for the brands. If you actually listen to anything Ratan Tata has said on the subject you will see that he is not only an extremely capable industrialist but a man that understands the nature of these brands. He is neither so stupid as to "Indianise" things nor to move everything wholesale to India.
Its true that in time a factory will have to go, and if they plan expanded model ranges then using production in India or anywhere makes sense. Just what exactly is the problem? Every major manufacturer builds cars all over the place, its an economic reality from your American X5 to your polish Fiat 500. Yet in this case the prospect deserves jingoistic reactions? They have guaranteed 3 years of manufacture in the current pattern, very good all in. In the long term it would make sense perhaps to open a factory in the US, to combat the effects of the weak dollar and build the cars in their primary market. This is exactly what they SHOULD be doing. It is only the small minded "its not British" attitude that we suffer from here that would get in the way. Shame the German and Italians have no such inane prejudices.
I suggest that the attitude Tata has shown is spot on to build a healthy business, without butting heads with the Union Jack short wearing fraternity. Wait and see what the model plans will be before placing judgements, it is the models and their quality only that people should be concerned about.Given that Tata have already stated that they don't aim for mass market penetration and that the inclusion of lower CO2 and higher economy models in the ranges is necessary, I'd say they are on the right track for the business.
What has happened here? JLR has been bought by a new company looking to take the brands forward, and is released from a previous company which had neither the money nor the inclination to continue on. Ford has left things in reasonable shape with the new XF, LR turning a profit and Jag set to do so in the relatively near future.
The new company has the necessary cash and the expertise in management to start a new chapter for the brands. If you actually listen to anything Ratan Tata has said on the subject you will see that he is not only an extremely capable industrialist but a man that understands the nature of these brands. He is neither so stupid as to "Indianise" things nor to move everything wholesale to India.
Its true that in time a factory will have to go, and if they plan expanded model ranges then using production in India or anywhere makes sense. Just what exactly is the problem? Every major manufacturer builds cars all over the place, its an economic reality from your American X5 to your polish Fiat 500. Yet in this case the prospect deserves jingoistic reactions? They have guaranteed 3 years of manufacture in the current pattern, very good all in. In the long term it would make sense perhaps to open a factory in the US, to combat the effects of the weak dollar and build the cars in their primary market. This is exactly what they SHOULD be doing. It is only the small minded "its not British" attitude that we suffer from here that would get in the way. Shame the German and Italians have no such inane prejudices.
I suggest that the attitude Tata has shown is spot on to build a healthy business, without butting heads with the Union Jack short wearing fraternity. Wait and see what the model plans will be before placing judgements, it is the models and their quality only that people should be concerned about.Given that Tata have already stated that they don't aim for mass market penetration and that the inclusion of lower CO2 and higher economy models in the ranges is necessary, I'd say they are on the right track for the business.
amare32 said:
Jaguar under TATA ownership would be worse than Ford IMO. While it's too early to speculate what will happen one thing is certain, in the same way that people perceive anything built in Germany is quality, consumers will run a mile from a 'Prestige' marque if it was built in the likes of India/China.
What if it was built in the likes of South Africa or Hungary?Production won't move to India. They unfortunately don't have the unique skill set required to build a Jaguar or Land Rover. It is fact that Rolls Royce have an engine blade manufacturing plant in Bangalore, have done for years. They have been building blades for the Indian Air Force contract for Hawk jets, the blades get made and shipped to UK. They all go in the bin because they just aren't good enough. It being just a politcial statement. If the same happens to Jag/LR production it would be a very expensive way to blow £1billion. TATA have no interest in this, they want the brands to grow. I have confidence all will be fine.
If the Ambasador still reigns supreme over there, I'm sure a stripped out X-Type will do just as well. I can maybe see the X-Type platforms moving out there, as it's time has come to be ditched. But not XJ,XK of XF platforms.
G
If the Ambasador still reigns supreme over there, I'm sure a stripped out X-Type will do just as well. I can maybe see the X-Type platforms moving out there, as it's time has come to be ditched. But not XJ,XK of XF platforms.
G
Edited by Triple7 on Thursday 27th March 11:47
+1Wonderful isnt it, the indians now own 2 of our best known british luxury brands, when 100 years ago (or so my history is pants) we owned INDIA!!
The goverbods are keen to bail out Northern Rock when they were broke why didnt they buy 2 great british marques and make us proud to be british again.
Oh no thats right if we are patriotic we get lumped in with the nazis and racists.
The goverbods are keen to bail out Northern Rock when they were broke why didnt they buy 2 great british marques and make us proud to be british again.
Oh no thats right if we are patriotic we get lumped in with the nazis and racists.
amare32 said:
Bikes are the same, people go for the likes of Honda/Suzuki/Yamaha/Harley/Ducati because they're well known and could be trusted...not made in some random place where a company no one has heard of.
NO ONE HEARD OF?TATA is one of the biggest companies in the world...from cars, to computers, to tea and many other things. There are lots of BIG companies who not everyone may have heard of, but doesnt mean they cant do justice.
and HERO HONDA and Suzuki are very popular in India too
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