RE: Tesla Coming To Europe In 2009
Wednesday 2nd April 2008
Good way to annoy Ken Livingstone?Tesla Motors plans to begin selling its Lotus Elise-esque electric car in Europe next year, it has been reported.
Tesla Coming To Europe In 2009
Electric car could be the quickest way to get around central London for free
Good way to annoy Ken Livingstone?
The move would take advantage of a weak dollar and chief executive Ze-ev Drori said the car will be priced at just under £80,000 on the continent by the third quarter.
The company began US production last month.
‘There are many compelling reasons for us to be in Europe,’ Mr Drori told the FT.
He cited the shortage average distance Europeans drive and favourable tax treatment for electric or zero-emissions cars in some countries.
To begin with Tesla would target big markets such as Germany and France, and in the beginning the UK would miss out because there is no right-hand drive option.
However this could all change depending on how successful the cars are in key markets, and the car would be easier to import from Europe.
Tesla’s order book in the US stands at about 1,000 following delays launching.
The Tesla Roadster accelerates to 60mph in 3.9 seconds.
Discussion
the car is silent.. no audible milk float whine when i saw it, just tyre noise. I have to say seeing this car doing stop - go tests, it is VERY quick off the mark.
One thought is why £80,000 when it is $100,000 dollars (£50k approx) and built in the UK????? just what is the extra £30k for?
One thought is why £80,000 when it is $100,000 dollars (£50k approx) and built in the UK????? just what is the extra £30k for?
I REALLY want to buy a tesla, ever since seeing one in the USA.
But W.T.F is it suddenly £80,000 / $160,000 ... ??!!! Its far simpler that any normal internal combustion car, and this price is for early adopters with deep pockets. Tesla USA are working on other family sized electric models for 2010/2011 and beyond, but with expected prices more like $20k-$25k. So $160k is hardly a good way to encourage people into them, despite the obvious performance and relative greeness merits, yadda yadda.
As for sound - the 'engine' sounds like a big bassy electric motor going up to 14,000 RPM ! And its quite nice in a sc-fi kinda way. It would be easy to have cabin electronics provide any type of conventional SFX you choose based on engine revs/roadspeed, and as loud/quiet as you want. You could choose V8, V12, Steam train, no problem (just like any car racing game). I've personally experimented with doing this as a retrofit to any car, but its apparently not new becuase tesla and lotus (who make the chassis in UK) have both looked into this already.
But W.T.F is it suddenly £80,000 / $160,000 ... ??!!! Its far simpler that any normal internal combustion car, and this price is for early adopters with deep pockets. Tesla USA are working on other family sized electric models for 2010/2011 and beyond, but with expected prices more like $20k-$25k. So $160k is hardly a good way to encourage people into them, despite the obvious performance and relative greeness merits, yadda yadda.
As for sound - the 'engine' sounds like a big bassy electric motor going up to 14,000 RPM ! And its quite nice in a sc-fi kinda way. It would be easy to have cabin electronics provide any type of conventional SFX you choose based on engine revs/roadspeed, and as loud/quiet as you want. You could choose V8, V12, Steam train, no problem (just like any car racing game). I've personally experimented with doing this as a retrofit to any car, but its apparently not new becuase tesla and lotus (who make the chassis in UK) have both looked into this already.
Ravell said:
beefcake42 said:
just what is the extra £30k for?
Tax! 
Also, how hard can it be to make it right hand drive? It's essentially an elise ffs? Makes you wonder. I wonder if it is the homologation costs in connection with limited production capacity that is stopping them from initially selling in europe/uk? In other words, we can sell as many as we can make efficiently at £80K and we'd make no more money by selling 10,000 per year at £50K?
Edited by hahithestevieboy on Wednesday 2nd April 12:20
hahithestevieboy said:
Ravell said:
beefcake42 said:
just what is the extra £30k for?
Tax! "It would not supprise me if in future, some sort of special tax was put on automotive/rechargable/etc batteries." Well I think it will be
called road priceing. I had a look at Readings proposed charge zones thay even go over the M4 to catch a small industrial area that could
not be considered a congestion zone but will generate revenue. Sorry to be so negative, It looks a fantastic car and electric motors have
great torque characteristics. Its going to be the future of powering a lot of cars I think.
called road priceing. I had a look at Readings proposed charge zones thay even go over the M4 to catch a small industrial area that could
not be considered a congestion zone but will generate revenue. Sorry to be so negative, It looks a fantastic car and electric motors have
great torque characteristics. Its going to be the future of powering a lot of cars I think.
Edited by Coombes on Wednesday 2nd April 12:36
In Las Vegas a few years ago they built pedestrian bridges across the roads, as up to 5 people were being killed each week, not trying to cross the road, but stepping back and onto the road to take pictures of the sights.
ENTER THE TESLA ! SILENT DEATH RACE 2009.....LONDON.
Get my drift ?
10,000 points for Ken !
TW>>>
ENTER THE TESLA ! SILENT DEATH RACE 2009.....LONDON.
Get my drift ?
10,000 points for Ken !
TW>>>
Edited by timewatch on Wednesday 2nd April 12:54
Think the Tesla looks brilliant, needs some engine noise though, that's half the experience for me.
On another note, after you've factored in the impact of all those batteries and the generation of the electricity for the car, is it that much better emission wise than an Elise?
On another note, after you've factored in the impact of all those batteries and the generation of the electricity for the car, is it that much better emission wise than an Elise?
Edited by num2uk on Wednesday 2nd April 13:05
hahithestevieboy said:
Also, how hard can it be to make it right hand drive? It's essentially an elise ffs? Makes you wonder.
Common misconception, it shares less than 5% with the elise, the biggest item being the windscreen. It's probably a fair amount of effort to convert to RHD but what idiots the Americans are for designing a car which is being touted as green, then getting it built in England only to fly it over to the US and only later realising it might be a good idea to sell it in the UK and Europe too - Jeez you guys, c'mon man! 
P*sses me off too that it costs so much, price needs to be sub £50k to make any real volume over here. Still, things can only get better and 100% torque available 100% of the time sounds good to me.
num2uk said:
On another note, after you've factored in the impact of all those batteries and the generation of the electricity for the car, is it that much better emission wise than an Elise?
They're going to be selling it in France and Germany: those two get a big slice of their electricity from nuclear and hydro.And of course now EDF own a large chunk of the UK electricity industry, so do we... oh no, that's not quite right is it
Hi All
I so want a Tesla (early adopter nerd!) but not at £80k.
Even at £50k I have worries about battery range over time.
I put together a spreadsheet to work out battery car range based on charge, average speed, air resistance, drive train losses etc and I get a range for the Tesla of 182 miles at 60mph. (I used Elise Cd figures and weights along with published Tesla weight info)
And Yes I have too much time on my hands but I have been looking at range models for designing my own car and used my model to look at battery technology and donor car options.
Based on the Li-ion loss of charge over time from here: http://www.buchmann.ca/Article9-Page1.asp
you lose about 12% of charge a year based on 25 degrees C storage and a storage charge of 70% (gets worse if you store it changed with more according to the site). (I averaged the 12% based on the graph for 40% and 100% charge). I also optimistically calculated the % loss each year based on the previous years charge (not year 1) and assumed the % derdation is the same each year. Here's what I think happens to the range:
Time Range/miles
New 182
1 year 159
2 years 138
3 years 121
4 years 105
5 years 92
6 years 80
7 years 70
8 years 61
9 years 53
10 years 46
11 years 40
12 years 35
13 years 31
That would worry me lots, but it is not really addressed anywhere I have seen by Tesla. Oh and this is just degradation over time and does not include recharge cycle degradation from actually driving the car.
I have quotes from China for 7000 laptop cells (same electrical spec as Tesla's) at $1 per cell. So factoring in other costs a refreshed battery pack is going to cost upwards of $10k or £5K before any mark up.
Using 30 13.8volt Altair Nanosafe batteries, given the available space etc gives a new range of 131 miles dropping to 111 miles after 10 years from Altairs quoted 1.5% annual degrdation. Problem is they are much more expensive and difficult to get! I supect the Lighning car must be using around 60 batteries to get a sensible range unless my sums are way off which is more than likely.
If someone has better info on Lithium battery degradation over time please tell me but based on what I have found I am put off a Lion powered car!
Would this affect your approach as a purchaser?
I don't want to diss Tesla as I like what they are doing but to me spending that much cash on a car is a car for life and so life expactancy is IMHO important.
I so want a Tesla (early adopter nerd!) but not at £80k.
Even at £50k I have worries about battery range over time.
I put together a spreadsheet to work out battery car range based on charge, average speed, air resistance, drive train losses etc and I get a range for the Tesla of 182 miles at 60mph. (I used Elise Cd figures and weights along with published Tesla weight info)
And Yes I have too much time on my hands but I have been looking at range models for designing my own car and used my model to look at battery technology and donor car options.
Based on the Li-ion loss of charge over time from here: http://www.buchmann.ca/Article9-Page1.asp
you lose about 12% of charge a year based on 25 degrees C storage and a storage charge of 70% (gets worse if you store it changed with more according to the site). (I averaged the 12% based on the graph for 40% and 100% charge). I also optimistically calculated the % loss each year based on the previous years charge (not year 1) and assumed the % derdation is the same each year. Here's what I think happens to the range:
Time Range/miles
New 182
1 year 159
2 years 138
3 years 121
4 years 105
5 years 92
6 years 80
7 years 70
8 years 61
9 years 53
10 years 46
11 years 40
12 years 35
13 years 31
That would worry me lots, but it is not really addressed anywhere I have seen by Tesla. Oh and this is just degradation over time and does not include recharge cycle degradation from actually driving the car.
I have quotes from China for 7000 laptop cells (same electrical spec as Tesla's) at $1 per cell. So factoring in other costs a refreshed battery pack is going to cost upwards of $10k or £5K before any mark up.
Using 30 13.8volt Altair Nanosafe batteries, given the available space etc gives a new range of 131 miles dropping to 111 miles after 10 years from Altairs quoted 1.5% annual degrdation. Problem is they are much more expensive and difficult to get! I supect the Lighning car must be using around 60 batteries to get a sensible range unless my sums are way off which is more than likely.
If someone has better info on Lithium battery degradation over time please tell me but based on what I have found I am put off a Lion powered car!
Would this affect your approach as a purchaser?
I don't want to diss Tesla as I like what they are doing but to me spending that much cash on a car is a car for life and so life expactancy is IMHO important.
Edited by Spunagain on Wednesday 2nd April 14:08
Edited by Spunagain on Wednesday 2nd April 14:16
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