Is waxoyl a silent assasin?
Discussion
This time last year my chassis was a nice white powder coat… apart from a few bits of falking around the outriggers and rust starting to show through. Now I’m a paranoid soul and I decide to have a waxoyl chassis treatment done by the dealer at the same time as my annual service and MOT. I should have expected it really, but to my horror, I get the car back and my nice white chassis and most of the rest of the car underside, shocks, springs, driveshaft’s, and the bottom half or the engine bay are covered in black gunge, as is half of the bodywork in overspray.
A couple of days later I manage to convince myself it’s for the best, and although aesthetically horrible and not cheap either, my pride and joy will surely benefit in the long run. At this point I have to admit to being a fine weather TVR enthusiast, so my P&J has been tucked up in the garage most of the winter with a couple of hot water bottles and a blanket.. Okay I exaggerate, a little oil filled radiator keeps the place dry and slightly warm.
Anyway a few weeks back the weather breaks, blanket comes off and I go for a spin or two, join my fellow TVR Car Club chaps for a great run out… this is what it’s all about I think. Time to clean the car and I wash and polish as usual, and I happen to have a look underneath… the waxoyl is starting to come away in one or two places so I have a scrape around… F$%k it’s not just one or two places it’s all over and what’s more all that is underneath is rust and lots of it. How can this be I think? isn’t the waxoyl supposed to delay ageing, all that seems to have happened is premature ageing…. I’ve only done 2,000 miles since last service.
So this morning, time for action… up she goes on the axle stands, wheels off, scrapers in my hand to tackle the rust, and white spirit and a selection of rags to get rid of the gunge. Six hours of back breaking work later, amid constant cursing of the guy, whoever he was, who sprayed this gunge all over my car, and I’ve got one side cleaned up… not just the chassis, but the wishbones, anti roll bars, and everything else. The good news is that the chassis is actually in excellent condition, really solid, but I dread to think what it would have been like in another year if I’d just patched up the gunge.
I’ve decided to use POR15, based on lots of advice on here. I bought some last year before I had the gunge put on, but didn’t use it, seemed too much like hard work. So I’m writing this whilst having a cup of coffee, after having used it today. I followed the instructions to the letter, POR Degreaser first, followed by Etch primer, and finally the first thin coat of POR 15… looks good so far and the next coat goes on in a couple of hours.
So why am I sharing this, well just to advise caution if you think that a chassis is in good condition because it has been waxoyled, in my case this was definitely not so… all it served to do was mask the rust gremlins that are our very worst enemy.
Also, to say there’s no shortcut to doing the job right, it’s hard work albeit rewarding when you get it done. Mind you I have to tackle the other side next week, and I’m sure the gunge man’s ears will be burning once again!!
A couple of days later I manage to convince myself it’s for the best, and although aesthetically horrible and not cheap either, my pride and joy will surely benefit in the long run. At this point I have to admit to being a fine weather TVR enthusiast, so my P&J has been tucked up in the garage most of the winter with a couple of hot water bottles and a blanket.. Okay I exaggerate, a little oil filled radiator keeps the place dry and slightly warm.
Anyway a few weeks back the weather breaks, blanket comes off and I go for a spin or two, join my fellow TVR Car Club chaps for a great run out… this is what it’s all about I think. Time to clean the car and I wash and polish as usual, and I happen to have a look underneath… the waxoyl is starting to come away in one or two places so I have a scrape around… F$%k it’s not just one or two places it’s all over and what’s more all that is underneath is rust and lots of it. How can this be I think? isn’t the waxoyl supposed to delay ageing, all that seems to have happened is premature ageing…. I’ve only done 2,000 miles since last service.
So this morning, time for action… up she goes on the axle stands, wheels off, scrapers in my hand to tackle the rust, and white spirit and a selection of rags to get rid of the gunge. Six hours of back breaking work later, amid constant cursing of the guy, whoever he was, who sprayed this gunge all over my car, and I’ve got one side cleaned up… not just the chassis, but the wishbones, anti roll bars, and everything else. The good news is that the chassis is actually in excellent condition, really solid, but I dread to think what it would have been like in another year if I’d just patched up the gunge.
I’ve decided to use POR15, based on lots of advice on here. I bought some last year before I had the gunge put on, but didn’t use it, seemed too much like hard work. So I’m writing this whilst having a cup of coffee, after having used it today. I followed the instructions to the letter, POR Degreaser first, followed by Etch primer, and finally the first thin coat of POR 15… looks good so far and the next coat goes on in a couple of hours.
So why am I sharing this, well just to advise caution if you think that a chassis is in good condition because it has been waxoyled, in my case this was definitely not so… all it served to do was mask the rust gremlins that are our very worst enemy.
Also, to say there’s no shortcut to doing the job right, it’s hard work albeit rewarding when you get it done. Mind you I have to tackle the other side next week, and I’m sure the gunge man’s ears will be burning once again!!
Wouldent know i give up on Waxoyl years ago,got fed up with it cracking and drying out,Dinitrol far better product but in defense to Waxoyl its a lot cheaper,and if applied to a suitable surface works well enough,just dont believe the hype about applying over rusty metal,i think the tin worm still keeps on gnawing away at the metal underneath.
I have never seen waxoyle come off a sound surface and my 15 year old chassis is still perfect. Its useless however over flakey paint or powder coat, as it cant attach to the metal itself, so I suspect they simply slapped it on without a good pressure wash to remove any flakey paint and dry out first. Probibly why they they used the black stuff, as this hides a multitude of sins. I would not blame the product, more the application.
TVR Moneypit said:
dtmpower said:
That Daddy said:
tin worm still keeps on gnawing away at the metal underneath.
The covering of waxoyl takes away to main accelerators I would guess - damp air and salt.... by yeah I agree, cant see it being 100% effective at isolating the metal from nature.So, this Dinatol. Tell me more?
Haven't done it to mine yet, but father supplied me a tube or two which fell out of the stores doors
He uses it on his Chimaera . . .
For a full treatment though you do need to clear the crud off, then rust treat it, paint it with whatever flavour you like be it hammerite or POR15 and then treat with Dinitrol . .
Edited by Johno on Saturday 5th April 21:33
This is precisely the problem with getting someone else to do the job.
Unless the surface is cleaned and prepped first (and preferably sealed with paint) waxoyl is just going to seal in any pre-existing dirt, dust, rust, salt and condensation. Hence why a 'chassis waxoyl' simply cannot be properly done (IMHO) for less than £200.
As you point out, the second problem is that an overdose of waxoyl hides any deterioration that is present.
Waxoyl itself isn't the villain (although more durable alternatives may exist) - it's the person that puts it on.
Unless the surface is cleaned and prepped first (and preferably sealed with paint) waxoyl is just going to seal in any pre-existing dirt, dust, rust, salt and condensation. Hence why a 'chassis waxoyl' simply cannot be properly done (IMHO) for less than £200.
As you point out, the second problem is that an overdose of waxoyl hides any deterioration that is present.
Waxoyl itself isn't the villain (although more durable alternatives may exist) - it's the person that puts it on.
griffter said:
This is precisely the problem with getting someone else to do the job.
Unless the surface is cleaned and prepped first (and preferably sealed with paint) waxoyl is just going to seal in any pre-existing dirt, dust, rust, salt and condensation. Hence why a 'chassis waxoyl' simply cannot be properly done (IMHO) for less than £200.
Completely agree... I did pay (waste) a few hundred pounds, but at dealer rates that probably only equates to 2 hours labour + materials... which I'd say to do the job properly is only enough time to clean, derust, degrease, prime and paint up proper the top and bottom wishbones on one side of the car.Unless the surface is cleaned and prepped first (and preferably sealed with paint) waxoyl is just going to seal in any pre-existing dirt, dust, rust, salt and condensation. Hence why a 'chassis waxoyl' simply cannot be properly done (IMHO) for less than £200.
DIY is the answer, that way you know what the real condition of the metal is, what the quality of the paintwork is, and if it's a bad job, you only have yourself to blame!
I had a suprise when I inspected my X Reg Chim. Few spots to rub down turned into 6 weekends of rubbing down and chipping away flaking powder coating that at first looked in great condition! After that I wouldnt let anyone look after the chassis for me. Speaking to fellow TVR DIYers they recc up on axel stands once a year for a good look and re apply of the anti rust stuff. I found that thining it out with white spirit worked well as you dont want it to thick. Also dont do on a cold day as the spray gun soon gunges up!
When i started to scrape off my Waxoyl late last year to treat chassis with POR15, i found that water had got in under the Waxoyl & it was actually preventing the moisture from draining away from the chassis
In fact the worse rust had occured where the chassis had been Waxoyled, to be fair i don't know the condition the chassis was in before it was 1st Waxoyled as i've only had the car a year or so...
Personally wouldn't use Waxoyl, the cars going to be checked every year & treated with POR15 as necessary...
In fact the worse rust had occured where the chassis had been Waxoyled, to be fair i don't know the condition the chassis was in before it was 1st Waxoyled as i've only had the car a year or so...
Personally wouldn't use Waxoyl, the cars going to be checked every year & treated with POR15 as necessary...
All this has got me thinking 
i need to take a good look under my pride and joy.
Im thinking this POR 15 or DINITROL sounds like the stuff to use.
After looking it would seem a combinaton of dinitrol 3125 followed by a protective coat of 4941 is the way to go. Any one here tried them?.
Also i have no idea where to start, im not expecting any thing bad under there but i want to do a good job.
So can someone list the jobs i need to do in order and the stuff/tools i may need to get started.
thanks for any help!
i need to take a good look under my pride and joy.Im thinking this POR 15 or DINITROL sounds like the stuff to use.
After looking it would seem a combinaton of dinitrol 3125 followed by a protective coat of 4941 is the way to go. Any one here tried them?.
Also i have no idea where to start, im not expecting any thing bad under there but i want to do a good job.
So can someone list the jobs i need to do in order and the stuff/tools i may need to get started.
thanks for any help!
BryanWilton said:
When i started to scrape off my Waxoyl late last year to treat chassis with POR15, i found that water had got in under the Waxoyl & it was actually preventing the moisture from draining away from the chassis
In fact the worse rust had occured where the chassis had been Waxoyled, to be fair i don't know the condition the chassis was in before it was 1st Waxoyled as i've only had the car a year or so...
Personally wouldn't use Waxoyl, the cars going to be checked every year & treated with POR15 as necessary...
There are warnings about applying it to thickly on the instructions. It does appear as the solvent comes out it shrinks, and cracks appear where its too thick, or as you say it can block drainage areas. A thin coat once a year is much better than spraying it on thickly and forgetting about it.In fact the worse rust had occured where the chassis had been Waxoyled, to be fair i don't know the condition the chassis was in before it was 1st Waxoyled as i've only had the car a year or so...
Personally wouldn't use Waxoyl, the cars going to be checked every year & treated with POR15 as necessary...
Mark
blitzracing said:
BryanWilton said:
When i started to scrape off my Waxoyl late last year to treat chassis with POR15, i found that water had got in under the Waxoyl & it was actually preventing the moisture from draining away from the chassis
In fact the worse rust had occured where the chassis had been Waxoyled, to be fair i don't know the condition the chassis was in before it was 1st Waxoyled as i've only had the car a year or so...
Personally wouldn't use Waxoyl, the cars going to be checked every year & treated with POR15 as necessary...
There are warnings about applying it to thickly on the instructions. It does appear as the solvent comes out it shrinks, and cracks appear where its too thick, or as you say it can block drainage areas. A thin coat once a year is much better than spraying it on thickly and forgetting about it.In fact the worse rust had occured where the chassis had been Waxoyled, to be fair i don't know the condition the chassis was in before it was 1st Waxoyled as i've only had the car a year or so...
Personally wouldn't use Waxoyl, the cars going to be checked every year & treated with POR15 as necessary...
Mark
over application not always easy to achieve with box section construction,but thats not a problem for us lot
I had a new can of Waxoyl waiting to use when the weather warmed up, but I have ordered some Dinitrol 4941 instead.
Saying that the old Waxoyl on the chassis has done a reasonable job, but would rather spend a bit extra on something decent I think.
Will do some test patches with the Dinitrol to see how it looks first though.
Saying that the old Waxoyl on the chassis has done a reasonable job, but would rather spend a bit extra on something decent I think.
Will do some test patches with the Dinitrol to see how it looks first though.
I've done my outriggers, wishbones etc over the winter and I know I have to spray something in to cover the areas I couldn't get at but I'm reluctant to get Waxoyl all over the place again as I found it covered a multitude of sins before and hadn't done it's job.
What's this Dinitrol like to use? and what is the finish like?
What's this Dinitrol like to use? and what is the finish like?
Any covering that doesn't seal totally can just end up as a water trap. A lot of the treatments result in varying outcomes down to the care taken in applying them. Ease of application & preparation required are the main differentiators I suppose.
I tend to side with Del, it is much easier to touch up paint where it is flaking. I am also a POR15 fan, where I have chipped mine with jacks/stands it shows no sing of spreading & just needs the chips touching in every now & again.
Dave
I tend to side with Del, it is much easier to touch up paint where it is flaking. I am also a POR15 fan, where I have chipped mine with jacks/stands it shows no sing of spreading & just needs the chips touching in every now & again.
Dave
Metaphorically!
Gassing Station | Chimaera | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff