Residual with LS 7 conversion

[Rusti Evo]

Just looking into making the SBC track safe with dry sump/EFI/refresh, and I assume that this would add no value to the car ie. the 10 grand will just be lost in running costs.

So I'm costing the benefits of the SBC conversion vs an LS 7 implant and flogging the existing motor/exhausts/bits.

If the LS implant adds resale value to the car then the cost of LS is not significantly more than improving the SBC. I guess this is a common set of sums on here.

I must point out that I'm not desperate to escape from the existing motor as TBH it has turned out better than I thought it would be - quite delightful - it's just a matter of track durability.

Not being one of the super-rich I have to ask this question as I don't want the project to turn into an ongoing moneypit.
What do you think a 2004 GTR with LS 7 is worth? (present value about 31k)

Stuart

[crafty]

... are you practicing the story before you tell the missus?

[gtr-gaz]

Rusti Evo said:

I must point out that I'm not desperate to escape from the existing motor as TBH it has turned out better than I thought it would be - quite delightful...

Glad you are happy with it Stuart I expect the air-con solonoid on the carb has helped a lot?

I think an LS7 would cost about £20k+ to install. Almost everything in the engine bay would have to be changed.

I wonder how an LS7 would cope with a lot of track work?
I doubt whether they are indestructable.
Also, if it did pop, repair costs would be far higher!

[Rusti Evo]

crafty said:

... are you practicing the story before you tell the missus?

Is it that obvious ...........

Nope, just trying to convince myself it's suuuuch a good idea

[Rusti Evo]

Gaz,

Delighted with the car - so are the neighbours ............. (!)

Stuart

[GTWayne]

In my humble opinion LS7 is the way to go for sure
It is very difficult to put together an exact costing but your logic is sound. I think that you will still end up investing an extra 10/15K on the project but the car will be worth at least an extra 10K upon resale, and in my book, that is money well spent
As for reliability SBC V LS7, the LS series of motors will be the safer bet but beware, they are not indestructible
The appeal for me would be a standard LS7 motor puts out 505bhp right? I would fit said motor as this is all the power that you will ever need in a track toy weighing circa 1050kg and all else being equal should be fairly straightforward. In the meantime, search out a S/H unit from a breaker and keep as a spare, if you should be unlucky enough to need it then there it is and if not, when you are done just sell it on, these motors will always be in demand and no way will you lose money.
One thing to consider is that if you are unable to carry out the work yourself it may cost you dear and it is 'mucho importante' that you get a proficient car builder to do the conversion ( this is all obvious stuff I know, but it can't hurt to re-iterate can it ).

[GTWayne]

MunkeeMan said:

I honestly don't think it will add much (if anything at all)

Popycock!, it stands to reason that if, for example, it will cost a punter an extra 20/25K premium to have the factory build them an LS7 powered car over a SBC propelled one that it will command at least an extra 10K in residual upon resale.

[GTWayne]

MunkeeMan said:

Just my opinion as a seasoned kit car buyer... !

PS - Why are you asking the question if you already know the answer?

I knew that I should have put a smiley after the word 'Popycock'
These are mostly just opinions on these here pages old bean and they are bound to differ from time to time

PPS - I am not actually the one asking the question, just a mere mortal trying to answer it ( IMHO ).

[LuckyP]

I would guess at a 10K premium. 5K cos you have a new motor and 5K cos it's an LS7. So you have to weigh up if the remaining 10K (I might argue 15K) that you'll never see, is worth the change. If the LS7 prove's itself to be the master on track that it could be, then 10K-15K is a great price to pay - I'd have gone for it from new if available at the time....but as you can see I'm giving the SBC one more chance to prove itself!!!

So 10K is my guess.

Lucky

[Ramthorne]

@ £10k if it was my money.

I would be looking to install for less than £15k and ,of course, you have the old engine to sell. New replacement blocks for the LS7 are about the same money as ali SBC prices, so no big deal.

BTW, the GM ECU works great, save yourself a shed load of cash on aftermarket ECU's and associated costs. Just plug it in, fire it up and drive it.

[F.C.]

I'd pay a bit OTT if the engine came with provenance.
If its second hand with little history I suspect about £5k
Fuel injection (provided its sorted) would definately tip the scales for me, thus making the car more desirable to me at least as a prospective buyer.
IMO. (and I'm looking to buy).
F.C.

[UFO 2 NOB]

Thinking of Ls7 myself.What about these

http://www.gmv8engines.com/ls7engine.html

Is there an off the shelf exhaust yet or is it a trip for a one off to specialist.

Edited by UFO 2 NOB on Monday 7th April 00:06

[crafty]

If you dont want to go the whole hog with an LS7 (7000cc - 560hp), you can get an LS2 (6000cc - 450hp) for about half the price.

There's a few of us out there with LS engines running stock vette manifolds....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COZYdldOPgs











Jeff Schwartz is the guy to speak to about LS engines..... http://www.schwartzperformance.com/

... here's a recent view of his workshop

Edited by crafty on Monday 7th April 03:45

[Rusti Evo]

crafty,

that really is a spine tingling sound track - do the Hong Kong police not get a bit cross with you?

[crafty]

its still unregistered. I was going to get trade plates - in Hong Kong if you have trade plates you dont have to register the car... first registration tax is on a sliding scale and is going to cost me about GBP16K... Im not getting anywhere on the T plates so have bitten the bullet and Im going for full registration.... it will get a muffler before that (and removed soon after)...

Its running cats only at present, at idle its reasonably quiet.

[jpr.racing]

HI sorry too sound stupid but what is so wrong with the sbc apart from its weight. parts are easy to get hold of and from the right place you don t get robbed. jeremy

[GTWayne]

jpr.racing said:

HI sorry too sound stupid but what is so wrong with the sbc apart from its weight. parts are easy to get hold of and from the right place you don t get robbed. jeremy

There is nothing that is terribly wrong with the SBC other than it is dated AND heavy, any problems that have been encountered thus far regarding engine woes in Ultimas have been concerning the SBC, ( although that is really not all that fair as it is the main engine that has been available and that the factory have always recommended it up until now ), and the LS series of motors even if only by their more modern design, do seem to be a more reliable and user friendly option, especially if you intend to do a lot of track work which by the way, is what the OP was interested in as well as the residuals regarding SBC V LS in an Ultima.
In a nutshell and all IMHO, I really do think that for a road car, SBC is the way to go, but for the ultimate pose or for heavy track use, ( or even if you are allergic to your motor always leaking or burning oil from somewhere, ANYWHERE! ), an LS engine makes more sense

[eliot]

I would estimate a 10k premium today - but over the years, that will reduce as they become more common. But at the cost of SBC based ones which will be harder to shift over a LS based car. (But ironically the cost of the LS conversion would of come down also!)

[crafty]

Check out http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=2... for loads of LS conversions and info.

When I bought mine, I needed a EURO4 compliant engine. The LS7 was just about to come out, but the ECU had not been cracked. I also really wanted a supercharged car, so I went for a stock LS2+Magnacharger as its EURO 4 compliant.

If I was building again, I'd probably go for a built LS engine (i.e. not a crate engine, one built up from components)... and get it built for high revs. You dont need a fancy ECU with an LS engine, the GM one is fine, just get it remapped.

[Rusti Evo]

eliot said:

I would estimate a 10k premium today - but over the years, that will reduce as they become more common. But at the cost of SBC based ones which will be harder to shift over a LS based car. (But ironically the cost of the LS conversion would of come down also!)

Exactly the conclusion I came to