Can i remove my rear ARB??
Discussion
Hi all
One of my rear ARB mounting plates has snapped in half and is missing,
after reading threads on some models not being fitted with a rear ARB at all,
can i remove it altogether?
I am also fitting Gaz golds all round if this makes any difference,also once the shocks are fitted will this throw out the geometry at all?
One of my rear ARB mounting plates has snapped in half and is missing,
after reading threads on some models not being fitted with a rear ARB at all,
can i remove it altogether?
I am also fitting Gaz golds all round if this makes any difference,also once the shocks are fitted will this throw out the geometry at all?
slideways said:
Hi all
One of my rear ARB mounting plates has snapped in half and is missing,
after reading threads on some models not being fitted with a rear ARB at all,
can i remove it altogether?
I am also fitting Gaz golds all round if this makes any difference,also once the shocks are fitted will this throw out the geometry at all?
You can, and if my experience is anything to go by you won't bother putting it back on. One of my rear ARB mounting plates has snapped in half and is missing,
after reading threads on some models not being fitted with a rear ARB at all,
can i remove it altogether?
I am also fitting Gaz golds all round if this makes any difference,also once the shocks are fitted will this throw out the geometry at all?
Pupp said:
slideways said:
Hi all
One of my rear ARB mounting plates has snapped in half and is missing,
after reading threads on some models not being fitted with a rear ARB at all,
can i remove it altogether?
I am also fitting Gaz golds all round if this makes any difference,also once the shocks are fitted will this throw out the geometry at all?
You can, and if my experience is anything to go by you won't bother putting it back on. One of my rear ARB mounting plates has snapped in half and is missing,
after reading threads on some models not being fitted with a rear ARB at all,
can i remove it altogether?
I am also fitting Gaz golds all round if this makes any difference,also once the shocks are fitted will this throw out the geometry at all?
Rich
I'd be more interested in finding out what caused it to snap, unless you already know 
Pupp said:
slideways said:
Hi all
One of my rear ARB mounting plates has snapped in half and is missing,
after reading threads on some models not being fitted with a rear ARB at all,
can i remove it altogether?
I am also fitting Gaz golds all round if this makes any difference,also once the shocks are fitted will this throw out the geometry at all?
You can, and if my experience is anything to go by you won't bother putting it back on. One of my rear ARB mounting plates has snapped in half and is missing,
after reading threads on some models not being fitted with a rear ARB at all,
can i remove it altogether?
I am also fitting Gaz golds all round if this makes any difference,also once the shocks are fitted will this throw out the geometry at all?
ok a difference of opinions!
if its not needed any one got an idea why tvr decided to put one on the later cars?
has it got any thing to do with using cheaper shocks with an arb to stiffen things up?
Do the shocks have to be set harder to compensate if removed?
i think it snapped due to age and stress as its gone clean across where the hole for the drop link is and also the half nearest the wheel has come off completly but doent look that corroded,also i know the other side was replaced just before i got the car about 3 years ago
if its not needed any one got an idea why tvr decided to put one on the later cars?
has it got any thing to do with using cheaper shocks with an arb to stiffen things up?
Do the shocks have to be set harder to compensate if removed?
i think it snapped due to age and stress as its gone clean across where the hole for the drop link is and also the half nearest the wheel has come off completly but doent look that corroded,also i know the other side was replaced just before i got the car about 3 years ago
Note that there are 2 types of the ARB brackets, the MK1 and MK2, mine is a 96 and had Mk1 brackets, which bent at the hole in the middle, sounds the same as yours. Check that your new one in the other side is different to the old one that has snapped, the main difference is the folded edges being much larger.
jonnyb said:
Pupp said:
slideways said:
Hi all
One of my rear ARB mounting plates has snapped in half and is missing,
after reading threads on some models not being fitted with a rear ARB at all,
can i remove it altogether?
I am also fitting Gaz golds all round if this makes any difference,also once the shocks are fitted will this throw out the geometry at all?
You can, and if my experience is anything to go by you won't bother putting it back on. One of my rear ARB mounting plates has snapped in half and is missing,
after reading threads on some models not being fitted with a rear ARB at all,
can i remove it altogether?
I am also fitting Gaz golds all round if this makes any difference,also once the shocks are fitted will this throw out the geometry at all?
ARBs aren't fitted to stiffen suspension - they counter roll. They do this by connecting one side of the suspension to the other so that as one side compresses, the other is drawn into compression as well. Thus some roll is converted to squat. Most people view the advantage (increased roll stiffness) as outweighing the disadvantage (suspension no longer truly indpendent). My precat Griff has no rear ARB and feels fine to me. However criticisms at the time led to TVR introducing the rear ARB. I didn't realise it was omitted on some Chimaeras as well though. I think it's a case of suck it and see.
slideways said:
Pupp said:
slideways said:
Hi all
One of my rear ARB mounting plates has snapped in half and is missing,
after reading threads on some models not being fitted with a rear ARB at all,
can i remove it altogether?
I am also fitting Gaz golds all round if this makes any difference,also once the shocks are fitted will this throw out the geometry at all?
You can, and if my experience is anything to go by you won't bother putting it back on. One of my rear ARB mounting plates has snapped in half and is missing,
after reading threads on some models not being fitted with a rear ARB at all,
can i remove it altogether?
I am also fitting Gaz golds all round if this makes any difference,also once the shocks are fitted will this throw out the geometry at all?
Rich
Try it and see, hardly a huge job to replace is it (assuming the brackets are intact)?
I haven’t tried taking my ARB off, so I can’t speak from 1st hand experience. However someone was explaining it why they took the ARB off in the wet, but left it on in they dry. They were hill climbing.
Removing the ARB makes the car understeer and break away sooner. This is safer and in the wet allows you to go faster than if it were left on because you dare to push harder. The car gives more warning of approaching the limit. When it did let go, the front would go first.
If you leave the ARB on then ultimately you have more grip. But as the breakaway is more sudden and has less warning he drove slower in the wet so as not to reach that point. When it let go the car oversteered and this was hard to catch in the wet.
In a road car it would depend how you wanted to use it.
If you use the car as a GT in all weathers then the safety and feel may allow you to be faster over longer distances because you can push on with more confidence.
If it’s a dry weather sports car or track day car that you want best precision feel and enjoyment fit the ARB.
Fitting the ARB comes down to personal choice about how you want to use the car.
I would start by looking at the condition of the wishbones. Are they rusty and needing replacement soon? If so the new wishbones will come with the later type mounts.
If the old wishbones are good then use the modification kit.
The original mounts used to bend as well as break. Do both sides.
If you are having new shocks then it makes sense to have the suspension set up properly. Get everything that is likely to need doing in the near future done first. Otherwise you just need to do it again.
If the wishbones come off then consider polybushes and Steve Heath drop links.
Removing the ARB makes the car understeer and break away sooner. This is safer and in the wet allows you to go faster than if it were left on because you dare to push harder. The car gives more warning of approaching the limit. When it did let go, the front would go first.
If you leave the ARB on then ultimately you have more grip. But as the breakaway is more sudden and has less warning he drove slower in the wet so as not to reach that point. When it let go the car oversteered and this was hard to catch in the wet.
In a road car it would depend how you wanted to use it.
If you use the car as a GT in all weathers then the safety and feel may allow you to be faster over longer distances because you can push on with more confidence.
If it’s a dry weather sports car or track day car that you want best precision feel and enjoyment fit the ARB.
Fitting the ARB comes down to personal choice about how you want to use the car.
I would start by looking at the condition of the wishbones. Are they rusty and needing replacement soon? If so the new wishbones will come with the later type mounts.
If the old wishbones are good then use the modification kit.
The original mounts used to bend as well as break. Do both sides.
If you are having new shocks then it makes sense to have the suspension set up properly. Get everything that is likely to need doing in the near future done first. Otherwise you just need to do it again.
If the wishbones come off then consider polybushes and Steve Heath drop links.
Uncle Fester said:
If the wishbones come off then consider polybushes and Steve Heath drop links.
Steve Heath droplinks are the best and cheapest mod I have ever fitted. Totally transformed the handling - but then I suspect the old rubber ARB links were a touch on the worn side. Might be worth trying them before deciding to remove the ARB completely ?Hut49 said:
Uncle Fester said:
Removing the ARB makes the car understeer and break away sooner.
Sounds like that's probably equivalent to a "yes" to insurance policy issues!! The other info about hillclimbing makes sense too. Referring to my previous comments, an ARB is ideal on a flat track - anti-roll is more important than significant independent wheel movement. On a pitted, potholed road on the other hand, when not driving at 10/10 all the time, you may prefer the advantages of true independence over that extra 10% anti-roll.
griffter said:
I think it's probably more accurate to say that removing the ARB reduces oversteer. My Griff certainly doesn't understeer!
The other info about hillclimbing makes sense too. Referring to my previous comments, an ARB is ideal on a flat track - anti-roll is more important than significant independent wheel movement. On a pitted, potholed road on the other hand, when not driving at 10/10 all the time, you may prefer the advantages of true independence over that extra 10% anti-roll.
Back end twitchyness on rough roads is more a function of the arb not working correctly rather than a characteristic of the ARB itself. What happens is that as the suspension compresses on one side, the ARB starts to twist and compresses the bush rather than apply any correction. When the bush is compressed, then the ARB correction is applied in a big dollop. This is an over correction and the driver feels it as a twitch. It is this that can provoke the oversteer. Remove the ARB and this will go away as the ARB is not there but the roll characteristics are made worse as the only thing stopping the roll are the rear springs and shocks which haven't changed. So what is then needed is a set of adjustables/uprated springs to stiffen up the rear suspension to compensate for the missing ARB to stop the roll that the ARB was originally intended to do. The other info about hillclimbing makes sense too. Referring to my previous comments, an ARB is ideal on a flat track - anti-roll is more important than significant independent wheel movement. On a pitted, potholed road on the other hand, when not driving at 10/10 all the time, you may prefer the advantages of true independence over that extra 10% anti-roll.
One advantage of dumping the drop link bushes is that the ARB is applied consistently and progressively. Hey presto the rear twitchyness disappears and the other advantage is that a stiffer shocks/springs setting can be softened to further improve the ride and comfort. This aspect really surprised me as I didn't expect it. Basically the shocks and springs no longer need to act like an ARB. For the driver, the handling is more predictable which is probably the most important aspect as it gives confidence in the way the car handles.
I have tried the no ARB on both my Griffith and Cerbera and.... found it to be overall quite a backward step.
Thanks for all the replies,
so if i've got this right removing the ARB will generally reduce ride quality for road use on our fantasticly maintained roads, due to having to stiffen the shocks to compensate for body roll.
On the other hand leaving the ARB in place repairing the broken bracket and changing the drop links will give a softer but more positive ride.
If this is correct:
. what setting should i use for both applications.
. will this affect the settings on the front
so if i've got this right removing the ARB will generally reduce ride quality for road use on our fantasticly maintained roads, due to having to stiffen the shocks to compensate for body roll.
On the other hand leaving the ARB in place repairing the broken bracket and changing the drop links will give a softer but more positive ride.
If this is correct:
. what setting should i use for both applications.
. will this affect the settings on the front
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