Could we see a E92 M3 for £32999 this year ?
Discussion
Ok, i know this is old news and has been debated a few times before but i'm just coming to the idea that i'll never own a new M3 again .
I've lost over £10000 in the first year on my 335D and thats even after i negotiated just under £7000 off list. Yes i do alot more miles than average ( around 25000 )and i was prepared for that but when compared to the M3 it seems peanuts.
Working on the basis that a M3 will average around 200/250 miles on a tank of super compared to my 335D which i get between 450/500 miles to a tank its going to add nearly £4000 a year for me to just fill the bloody thing up. Add the extra insurance costs and most likely the extra cost in servicing and tyres i think the day of the M3 in numbered. Well for me that is.
Though i would much prefer an M3 to my Diesel for driver involvement i can't even justify buying one as a weekend car either as IMO they don't compete on the same level with which a slightly used 997s would provide in terms of the whole experience. M3's seem to lose £10000 to £15000 as soon as you drive off the forecourt and i just can't see a good time to jump in and grab a used one as the depreciation doesn't seem to slow down.
The worries on the economy , the fact that alot of people funded their car purchases using their equity in their house's (which surely must have dried up by now) would it be unthinkable to see a E92 M3 for around £32000 by the end of this year ?
I'd like a saloon if they do.
I've lost over £10000 in the first year on my 335D and thats even after i negotiated just under £7000 off list. Yes i do alot more miles than average ( around 25000 )and i was prepared for that but when compared to the M3 it seems peanuts.
Working on the basis that a M3 will average around 200/250 miles on a tank of super compared to my 335D which i get between 450/500 miles to a tank its going to add nearly £4000 a year for me to just fill the bloody thing up. Add the extra insurance costs and most likely the extra cost in servicing and tyres i think the day of the M3 in numbered. Well for me that is.
Though i would much prefer an M3 to my Diesel for driver involvement i can't even justify buying one as a weekend car either as IMO they don't compete on the same level with which a slightly used 997s would provide in terms of the whole experience. M3's seem to lose £10000 to £15000 as soon as you drive off the forecourt and i just can't see a good time to jump in and grab a used one as the depreciation doesn't seem to slow down.
The worries on the economy , the fact that alot of people funded their car purchases using their equity in their house's (which surely must have dried up by now) would it be unthinkable to see a E92 M3 for around £32000 by the end of this year ?
I'd like a saloon if they do.
Edited by GT Chipper on Friday 11th April 21:47
theres no mission of the current model of m3 dropping to that by the end of the year - currently the cheapest one on autotrader is £44850, id anticipate £41K by the end of the year.
You have to remember that your average m3 driver probably isnt that concerned about a slight shift in fuel prices and a bit more tax.
You have to remember that your average m3 driver probably isnt that concerned about a slight shift in fuel prices and a bit more tax.
pgilc1 said:
You have to remember that your average m3 driver probably isnt that concerned about a slight shift in fuel prices and a bit more tax.
I disagree. It's clear that such cars are going to face increasingly punitive taxation. So whilst the extra tax and cost of fuel in themselves may not currently bother someone who can pay £50k for a car, the knock on depreciation of driving a car to which the authorities are attaching pariah status almost certainly will. I've owned similar cars in the past, but wouldn't buy an M3 (or any top tax band car) for precisely that reason.I'd definitely expect to see M3's for under £40k by the end of the year.
pgilc1 said:
You have to remember that your average m3 driver probably isnt that concerned about a slight shift in fuel prices and a bit more tax.
I disagree also, this may have been true some years ago but nowadays, and certainly around here, lots of people have them on finance, which they realistically cannot afford.Well let's hope so, as that will be a lot of car for the money.
I never quite understand why we have quite so many tedious posts about the depreciation on cars. ALL performance cars depreciate badly, and you just accept this when you make the decision to buy or not, and factor it into the total cost of ownership. You buy a car like an M3 because there are about 25000 days in an average persons life and when you subtract the ones where you're at work, too young too drive, unwell or being dragged round Bluewater by the Mrs, then you can probably half that. So given that you might have 1ess than 10000 days in your life to really enjoy yourself, and no one I know has yet managed to avoid dying, then factors OTHER than cost are higher up my personal list. I sometimes eat KFC, and occasionally I enjoy a nice meal with friends that might cost £100 a head or more, the depreciation on both is roughly 100%, and the latter costs 20 times more than the former, but once again it's not a major factor in my decision to buy.
How about a few more posts about the thrill of driving and the pleasure us petrolheads get from it?
I never quite understand why we have quite so many tedious posts about the depreciation on cars. ALL performance cars depreciate badly, and you just accept this when you make the decision to buy or not, and factor it into the total cost of ownership. You buy a car like an M3 because there are about 25000 days in an average persons life and when you subtract the ones where you're at work, too young too drive, unwell or being dragged round Bluewater by the Mrs, then you can probably half that. So given that you might have 1ess than 10000 days in your life to really enjoy yourself, and no one I know has yet managed to avoid dying, then factors OTHER than cost are higher up my personal list. I sometimes eat KFC, and occasionally I enjoy a nice meal with friends that might cost £100 a head or more, the depreciation on both is roughly 100%, and the latter costs 20 times more than the former, but once again it's not a major factor in my decision to buy.
How about a few more posts about the thrill of driving and the pleasure us petrolheads get from it?
StuH said:
Well let's hope so, as that will be a lot of car for the money.
I never quite understand why we have quite so many tedious posts about the depreciation on cars. ALL performance cars depreciate badly, and you just accept this when you make the decision to buy or not, and factor it into the total cost of ownership. You buy a car like an M3 because there are about 25000 days in an average persons life and when you subtract the ones where you're at work, too young too drive, unwell or being dragged round Bluewater by the Mrs, then you can probably half that. So given that you might have 1ess than 10000 days in your life to really enjoy yourself, and no one I know has yet managed to avoid dying, then factors OTHER than cost are higher up my personal list. I sometimes eat KFC, and occasionally I enjoy a nice meal with friends that might cost £100 a head or more, the depreciation on both is roughly 100%, and the latter costs 20 times more than the former, but once again it's not a major factor in my decision to buy.
How about a few more posts about the thrill of driving and the pleasure us petrolheads get from it?
Personally I like to put a little more thought into buying a car than just "accepting it will depreciate badly". I suspect most people buying £50k cars are in a similar position. Depreciation is the biggest cost of these vehicles and getting opinions on this allow everyone to make a balanced decision and decide if the actual pleasure of ownership is worth the price. Despite your claims to the contrary I suspect that it's also a factor in your buying decisions, unless you are seriously claiming that you'd buy a new car which depreciated to zero in the first year of ownership I never quite understand why we have quite so many tedious posts about the depreciation on cars. ALL performance cars depreciate badly, and you just accept this when you make the decision to buy or not, and factor it into the total cost of ownership. You buy a car like an M3 because there are about 25000 days in an average persons life and when you subtract the ones where you're at work, too young too drive, unwell or being dragged round Bluewater by the Mrs, then you can probably half that. So given that you might have 1ess than 10000 days in your life to really enjoy yourself, and no one I know has yet managed to avoid dying, then factors OTHER than cost are higher up my personal list. I sometimes eat KFC, and occasionally I enjoy a nice meal with friends that might cost £100 a head or more, the depreciation on both is roughly 100%, and the latter costs 20 times more than the former, but once again it's not a major factor in my decision to buy.
How about a few more posts about the thrill of driving and the pleasure us petrolheads get from it?
Gary.
StuH said:
ALL performance cars depreciate badly, and you just accept this when you make the decision to buy or not, and factor it into the total cost of ownership.
have to pull you up on that point. agree most do - esp if you buy new, but not necessarily.I bought a 15 month old Lotus Exige, ran it for 8 months, adding about 4,000 miles and sold it for 500 more than I bought it for.
I bought an RX8 when they first came out, and sold that after a year and 10,000 miles for only 1k less than I bought it for.
So you dont HAVE to lose loads of money. Sticking with "in" cars - current examples being A5/S5, RS4, R8 (I wish), Mini, TT, you dont have to lose loads.
I do agree that big engined cars are taking a pounding at the moment - and performance diesels are holding strong. You only have to look to see how few 335d's there are on autotrader versus M3's to see how it's going....
Hedgeman said:
pgilc1 said:
You have to remember that your average m3 driver probably isnt that concerned about a slight shift in fuel prices and a bit more tax.
I disagree. It's clear that such cars are going to face increasingly punitive taxation. So whilst the extra tax and cost of fuel in themselves may not currently bother someone who can pay £50k for a car, the knock on depreciation of driving a car to which the authorities are attaching pariah status almost certainly will. I've owned similar cars in the past, but wouldn't buy an M3 (or any top tax band car) for precisely that reason.I'd definitely expect to see M3's for under £40k by the end of the year.
I have bought my last brand new car, tooooo much to loose.
Hedgeman said:
pgilc1 said:
You have to remember that your average m3 driver probably isnt that concerned about a slight shift in fuel prices and a bit more tax.
I disagree. It's clear that such cars are going to face increasingly punitive taxation. So whilst the extra tax and cost of fuel in themselves may not currently bother someone who can pay £50k for a car, the knock on depreciation of driving a car to which the authorities are attaching pariah status almost certainly will. I've owned similar cars in the past, but wouldn't buy an M3 (or any top tax band car) for precisely that reason.I'd definitely expect to see M3's for under £40k by the end of the year.
AlexE46 said:
pgilc1 said:
You have to remember that your average m3 driver probably isnt that concerned about a slight shift in fuel prices and a bit more tax.
I disagree also, this may have been true some years ago but nowadays, and certainly around here, lots of people have them on finance, which they realistically cannot afford.Tax has went up a bit, people who really want them will still pay the money for them. We havent seen e46's being given away yet, and i dont expect e92's to go that way either.
Not that i even like the things, or would want to defend them in any way, but the m3 will always command a certain status and thus, relatively speaking not drop harshly in price.
pgilc1 said:
Zod said:
SImple answer: No.
I sold my 02 E46 in 2004 for that price.
Totally agree. Lots of people would *like* them to drop harshly but i cant see it happening.I sold my 02 E46 in 2004 for that price.
I spoke to two dealers about the new 123D for my fiance and just asked in brief how well the new M3 was going and both were very negative, one saying that " people don't want a car that does under 20mpg" and the other saying that they had a new M3 that was ordered and hadn't been collected.
I also dont think anyone needs to talk down the prices , its seems quite obvious from the comments you pick up from people that have had trade bids for their M3's that all is not well out there.
Edited by GT Chipper on Saturday 12th April 18:57
pgilc1 said:
Hedgeman said:
pgilc1 said:
You have to remember that your average m3 driver probably isnt that concerned about a slight shift in fuel prices and a bit more tax.
I disagree. It's clear that such cars are going to face increasingly punitive taxation. So whilst the extra tax and cost of fuel in themselves may not currently bother someone who can pay £50k for a car, the knock on depreciation of driving a car to which the authorities are attaching pariah status almost certainly will. I've owned similar cars in the past, but wouldn't buy an M3 (or any top tax band car) for precisely that reason.I'd definitely expect to see M3's for under £40k by the end of the year.
pgilc1 said:
Not that i even like the things, or would want to defend them in any way, but the m3 will always command a certain status and thus, relatively speaking not drop harshly in price.
If an AUC is up for £44850 then I doubt the dealership would pay more than £40k trade. For a car that probably cost £55k+ new, that's surely quite a harsh drop in 6 months and a depreciation bath in anyones book.Edited by Hedgeman on Saturday 12th April 19:01
Hedgeman said:
pgilc1 said:
Hedgeman said:
pgilc1 said:
You have to remember that your average m3 driver probably isnt that concerned about a slight shift in fuel prices and a bit more tax.
I disagree. It's clear that such cars are going to face increasingly punitive taxation. So whilst the extra tax and cost of fuel in themselves may not currently bother someone who can pay £50k for a car, the knock on depreciation of driving a car to which the authorities are attaching pariah status almost certainly will. I've owned similar cars in the past, but wouldn't buy an M3 (or any top tax band car) for precisely that reason.I'd definitely expect to see M3's for under £40k by the end of the year.
pgilc1 said:
Not that i even like the things, or would want to defend them in any way, but the m3 will always command a certain status and thus, relatively speaking not drop harshly in price.
If an AUC is up for £44850 then I doubt the dealership would pay more than £40k trade. For a car that probably cost £55k+ new, that's surely quite a harsh drop in 6 months and a depreciation bath in anyones book.Edited by Hedgeman on Saturday 12th April 19:01
For a car thats now a year old, i guess that drop is about right - sadly people were and are paying list for them - a bad thing on a £55K bmw.
What BMW values them at at trade price is pretty irrespective, because they will always want a £4K markup at least.
Edited by pgilc1 on Saturday 12th April 19:08
pgilc1 said:
Tax has went up a bit, people who really want them will still pay the money for them. We havent seen e46's being given away yet, and i dont expect e92's to go that way either.
I work in the city which is the sort of place you see lots of M3's, 911's etc. We're gradually building up the department I work in, so a lot of CV's end up on my desk. Very recently there's been a sea change in both the quantity of CV's coming through and the quality of people looking for either a new job after being made redundant or trying to find an organisation they consider secure.Anyway the point I'm trying to make is that there may be many people who really want them, but wanting and buying aren't the same thing when you're twitchy about your job or unemployed.
GT Chipper said:
Ok, i know this is old news and has been debated a few times before but i'm just coming to the idea that i'll never own a new M3 again .
I've lost over £10000 in the first year on my 335D and thats even after i negotiated just under £7000 off list. Yes i do alot more miles than average ( around 25000 )and i was prepared for that but when compared to the M3 it seems peanuts.
Working on the basis that a M3 will average around 200/250 miles on a tank of super compared to my 335D which i get between 450/500 miles to a tank its going to add nearly £4000 a year for me to just fill the bloody thing up. Add the extra insurance costs and most likely the extra cost in servicing and tyres i think the day of the M3 in numbered. Well for me that is.
Though i would much prefer an M3 to my Diesel for driver involvement i can't even justify buying one as a weekend car either as IMO they don't compete on the same level with which a slightly used 997s would provide in terms of the whole experience. M3's seem to lose £10000 to £15000 as soon as you drive off the forecourt and i just can't see a good time to jump in and grab a used one as the depreciation doesn't seem to slow down.
The worries on the economy , the fact that alot of people funded their car purchases using their equity in their house's (which surely must have dried up by now) would it be unthinkable to see a E92 M3 for around £32000 by the end of this year ?
I'd like a saloon if they do.
Your commenting on the 1st year of ownership on a top end motor, course it's going to have depreciated especially with high mileage. Most people keep cars for 3-4 years and with average mileage it works out OK. Cars do have a depreciation flatline but many people see 100,000 miles + as a real negative which is rubbish. If you have a well built engine & car that's well maintained it can go a very long distance hassle free.I've lost over £10000 in the first year on my 335D and thats even after i negotiated just under £7000 off list. Yes i do alot more miles than average ( around 25000 )and i was prepared for that but when compared to the M3 it seems peanuts.
Working on the basis that a M3 will average around 200/250 miles on a tank of super compared to my 335D which i get between 450/500 miles to a tank its going to add nearly £4000 a year for me to just fill the bloody thing up. Add the extra insurance costs and most likely the extra cost in servicing and tyres i think the day of the M3 in numbered. Well for me that is.
Though i would much prefer an M3 to my Diesel for driver involvement i can't even justify buying one as a weekend car either as IMO they don't compete on the same level with which a slightly used 997s would provide in terms of the whole experience. M3's seem to lose £10000 to £15000 as soon as you drive off the forecourt and i just can't see a good time to jump in and grab a used one as the depreciation doesn't seem to slow down.
The worries on the economy , the fact that alot of people funded their car purchases using their equity in their house's (which surely must have dried up by now) would it be unthinkable to see a E92 M3 for around £32000 by the end of this year ?
I'd like a saloon if they do.
Edited by GT Chipper on Friday 11th April 21:47
Nothing worse than a customer saying "OK if I send £40,000 on that car and I get down the road, decide I don't like it & bring it back how much will you give me?" Daft. A car will lose 'x' when it drives off the forecourt, how else is the sales department within the dealership supposed to support itself? Also again is a very poor way to view your purchase as you'd have only had the car moments and your thinking "s
t this just cost me £'x'" when it's going to be more palletable over time not the moment.To answer your question, and in the light of your worries I'd say keep your 335d as it's a fantastic car that's fast & economical. With your mileage an M3 would be a silly choice if your fussed about fuel economy & other overheads. Also no chance of an M3 that price, saloon or coupe unless it's been crashed & repaired or has astronomical mileage already which is doubtful.
MK4 Slowride said:
GT Chipper said:
Ok, i know this is old news and has been debated a few times before but i'm just coming to the idea that i'll never own a new M3 again .
I've lost over £10000 in the first year on my 335D and thats even after i negotiated just under £7000 off list. Yes i do alot more miles than average ( around 25000 )and i was prepared for that but when compared to the M3 it seems peanuts.
Working on the basis that a M3 will average around 200/250 miles on a tank of super compared to my 335D which i get between 450/500 miles to a tank its going to add nearly £4000 a year for me to just fill the bloody thing up. Add the extra insurance costs and most likely the extra cost in servicing and tyres i think the day of the M3 in numbered. Well for me that is.
Though i would much prefer an M3 to my Diesel for driver involvement i can't even justify buying one as a weekend car either as IMO they don't compete on the same level with which a slightly used 997s would provide in terms of the whole experience. M3's seem to lose £10000 to £15000 as soon as you drive off the forecourt and i just can't see a good time to jump in and grab a used one as the depreciation doesn't seem to slow down.
The worries on the economy , the fact that alot of people funded their car purchases using their equity in their house's (which surely must have dried up by now) would it be unthinkable to see a E92 M3 for around £32000 by the end of this year ?
I'd like a saloon if they do.
Your commenting on the 1st year of ownership on a top end motor, course it's going to have depreciated especially with high mileage. Most people keep cars for 3-4 years and with average mileage it works out OK. Cars do have a depreciation flatline but many people see 100,000 miles + as a real negative which is rubbish. If you have a well built engine & car that's well maintained it can go a very long distance hassle free.I've lost over £10000 in the first year on my 335D and thats even after i negotiated just under £7000 off list. Yes i do alot more miles than average ( around 25000 )and i was prepared for that but when compared to the M3 it seems peanuts.
Working on the basis that a M3 will average around 200/250 miles on a tank of super compared to my 335D which i get between 450/500 miles to a tank its going to add nearly £4000 a year for me to just fill the bloody thing up. Add the extra insurance costs and most likely the extra cost in servicing and tyres i think the day of the M3 in numbered. Well for me that is.
Though i would much prefer an M3 to my Diesel for driver involvement i can't even justify buying one as a weekend car either as IMO they don't compete on the same level with which a slightly used 997s would provide in terms of the whole experience. M3's seem to lose £10000 to £15000 as soon as you drive off the forecourt and i just can't see a good time to jump in and grab a used one as the depreciation doesn't seem to slow down.
The worries on the economy , the fact that alot of people funded their car purchases using their equity in their house's (which surely must have dried up by now) would it be unthinkable to see a E92 M3 for around £32000 by the end of this year ?
I'd like a saloon if they do.
Edited by GT Chipper on Friday 11th April 21:47
Nothing worse than a customer saying "OK if I send £40,000 on that car and I get down the road, decide I don't like it & bring it back how much will you give me?" Daft. A car will lose 'x' when it drives off the forecourt, how else is the sales department within the dealership supposed to support itself? Also again is a very poor way to view your purchase as you'd have only had the car moments and your thinking "s
t this just cost me £'x'" when it's going to be more palletable over time not the moment.To answer your question, and in the light of your worries I'd say keep your 335d as it's a fantastic car that's fast & economical. With your mileage an M3 would be a silly choice if your fussed about fuel economy & other overheads. Also no chance of an M3 that price, saloon or coupe unless it's been crashed & repaired or has astronomical mileage already which is doubtful.
Also get the big D re-mapped. I can vouch for the performance
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