CBT done - mulling over what to do next
Discussion
Completed my CBT on Saturday - definitely a good feeling. I can recommend Quickstart Mainline at Taplow - they were friendly, patient and helped me feel relaxed. My co-ordination on the controls was not great (much practice required, especially on hill starts), but things like balance and low-speed manouvreing came quite easily, so I felt confident enough when it came time to go out on the road.
So, what next? It's not easy for a beginner to choose how best to do things with all the different opinions out there. Before Saturday I'd intended to buy a 125, ride that for a while to build confidence, then book myself on an intensive Direct Access course at somewhere like World Of BMW. However, the instructor I had on Saturday advised me against this plan. In his view if I intended to move on to big bikes I'd pick-up bad habits on a 125 which would do me no favours (not sure what bad habits, he mentioned something about observation). In his view, it would be better to get onto big bikes asap, so do a Direct Access straight away. That way I could then go out and buy the bike I actually wanted (probably a 5/600 in my case). He also felt that doing an intensive course gave you less opportunities to reflect on the training you've had and for lessons to 'sink-in'.
I feel a bit like that bloke on the Fast Show who was always being swayed by his mates in the pub, LOL. After giving it some thought I'm now inclined to the instructor's view - ie. immediate Direct Access.
Thoughts?
So, what next? It's not easy for a beginner to choose how best to do things with all the different opinions out there. Before Saturday I'd intended to buy a 125, ride that for a while to build confidence, then book myself on an intensive Direct Access course at somewhere like World Of BMW. However, the instructor I had on Saturday advised me against this plan. In his view if I intended to move on to big bikes I'd pick-up bad habits on a 125 which would do me no favours (not sure what bad habits, he mentioned something about observation). In his view, it would be better to get onto big bikes asap, so do a Direct Access straight away. That way I could then go out and buy the bike I actually wanted (probably a 5/600 in my case). He also felt that doing an intensive course gave you less opportunities to reflect on the training you've had and for lessons to 'sink-in'.
I feel a bit like that bloke on the Fast Show who was always being swayed by his mates in the pub, LOL. After giving it some thought I'm now inclined to the instructor's view - ie. immediate Direct Access.
Thoughts?
As most DAS courses are set up for people who have come straight form CBT and do not have any other experience then I would suggest that the straight to DAS option would be best. You will not be different from others on the DAS course (they too will likely have little experience beyond their CBT) and it will give you a good chance to try out a 500 which I expect will show you that a 125 would be a pointless step. If the 500 does prove to be more bike than you need then, after your DAS you can always get a 125 for a couple of months (as per plan A) before moving up to a larger bike, just without the requirement of the DAS in between. Either way, good luck.
My local training centre hires out 125s for around £30 a day all inclusive. If you could do likewise I'd do that for a few days and then have a day and a half or so with instruction on a big bike before doing the DAS test.
The trouble with DAS intensive courses is that they get expensive very quickly and you could easily waste a day or two wobbling about which £60 over a couple of weekends on a 125 would sort out.
The trouble with DAS intensive courses is that they get expensive very quickly and you could easily waste a day or two wobbling about which £60 over a couple of weekends on a 125 would sort out.
We have done it both ways...
- I did CBT then straight to DAS
- The Wife did CBT... then rode a 125cc for 12mnths then did DAS
Guess who needed less training? - Yes... it was me...
The instructor is right you WILL pick up bad habits running around on the 125cc and these habits have to be un-trained therefore it takes more time and therefore costs more money.
If you want to ride big bikes then get the DAS out of the way ASAP - just because you have passed DAS doesnt mean you need to go and by a big powerful bike. If you'd feel more comfortable on a 250 / 400cc bike for a while then buy one instead
My 2p
- I did CBT then straight to DAS
- The Wife did CBT... then rode a 125cc for 12mnths then did DAS
Guess who needed less training? - Yes... it was me...
The instructor is right you WILL pick up bad habits running around on the 125cc and these habits have to be un-trained therefore it takes more time and therefore costs more money.
If you want to ride big bikes then get the DAS out of the way ASAP - just because you have passed DAS doesnt mean you need to go and by a big powerful bike. If you'd feel more comfortable on a 250 / 400cc bike for a while then buy one instead
My 2p
i intended to do CBT & straight onto my DAS but my test got cancelled due to bad weather so i got a 125 for 13days while waiting as i wanted a bike for my 30th (original test was on my 30th).
there are good & bad points to both ways. your instructor has a good point that you'll pick up bad habits riding a 125 for a while.
id base it on how confident you feel on a bike. im glad i had a couple of weeks on a 125 just to get used to riding. it took me that long for riding to feel natural & be able to think about what im doing rather than it all being scary & new. I honestly think i'd have failed the test without the extra time on a bike the 125 gave me. however if your happy on a bike already then go for the DAS, you'll be doing it right as you wont know any other when you ride the test.
edit: do bare in mind the new test in Oct will mean DAS courses are going to be busier than ever this summer so it could be better to get it done before they are booked solid.
there are good & bad points to both ways. your instructor has a good point that you'll pick up bad habits riding a 125 for a while.
id base it on how confident you feel on a bike. im glad i had a couple of weeks on a 125 just to get used to riding. it took me that long for riding to feel natural & be able to think about what im doing rather than it all being scary & new. I honestly think i'd have failed the test without the extra time on a bike the 125 gave me. however if your happy on a bike already then go for the DAS, you'll be doing it right as you wont know any other when you ride the test.
edit: do bare in mind the new test in Oct will mean DAS courses are going to be busier than ever this summer so it could be better to get it done before they are booked solid.
Edited by Hooli on Monday 14th April 14:08
I'm curious to know what these bad habits might be. To me the things I'd do on one bike I'd do on another. What's so different apart from the weight of the bike? I'm clearly missing something here.
The non-intensive DA option I'm looking at is a package of 8 x 2hr lessons. If my CBT was anything to go by, I'd be fairly confident I could get to test standard with that amount of training.
The non-intensive DA option I'm looking at is a package of 8 x 2hr lessons. If my CBT was anything to go by, I'd be fairly confident I could get to test standard with that amount of training.
surfsofa said:
I'm curious to know what these bad habits might be. To me the things I'd do on one bike I'd do on another. What's so different apart from the weight of the bike? I'm clearly missing something here.
The non-intensive DA option I'm looking at is a package of 8 x 2hr lessons. If my CBT was anything to go by, I'd be fairly confident I could get to test standard with that amount of training.
Indeed your missing the point... you will pick up bad habits such as lack of lifesaver checks, mirror checks, lazy braking, gearshifting and so on... its surprising actually what bad habits you can pick up so quickly. The non-intensive DA option I'm looking at is a package of 8 x 2hr lessons. If my CBT was anything to go by, I'd be fairly confident I could get to test standard with that amount of training.
Its harder to get you out of bad habits than train you in the first place so I'm told...
It took my Wife TWO days to get out of the bad habits on a 125cc bike before she could ride the bigger ER5 ... total of FOUR days training in total... which aint cheap...
In comparison I only needed two days training before my test...
I'd still get the DAS out of the way ASAP and then ride a bike you feel comfortable with that way you can upgrade when you want... not when you get your licence - that could be sooner than you think...
I know I was bored after just a day on the 125cc bike...
Many valid points above.
For me, getting a 125 to run about for 3 months was essential as I had no prior experience of motorbikes. Road sense I have developed driving a car for 12 years you can apply but gaining confidence on a bike I knew it was going to take a bit of time.
I think picking up bad habits and sharpening skills is down to the individual's attitude and irrelevant whatever bike you're on. To those who jump straight onto a 600 after a DAS poses it's risks as you know you've passed...you're free to do as you please. The wobbles that I had during the 3 month's of owning a 125 made me eliminate a lot of the newbie mistakes and when I came to do the DAS, it was plain sailing all the way.
For me, getting a 125 to run about for 3 months was essential as I had no prior experience of motorbikes. Road sense I have developed driving a car for 12 years you can apply but gaining confidence on a bike I knew it was going to take a bit of time.
I think picking up bad habits and sharpening skills is down to the individual's attitude and irrelevant whatever bike you're on. To those who jump straight onto a 600 after a DAS poses it's risks as you know you've passed...you're free to do as you please. The wobbles that I had during the 3 month's of owning a 125 made me eliminate a lot of the newbie mistakes and when I came to do the DAS, it was plain sailing all the way.
surfsofa said:
I'm curious to know what these bad habits might be. To me the things I'd do on one bike I'd do on another. What's so different apart from the weight of the bike? I'm clearly missing something here.
The non-intensive DA option I'm looking at is a package of 8 x 2hr lessons. If my CBT was anything to go by, I'd be fairly confident I could get to test standard with that amount of training.
bad habits-yes you will pick them up on one bike as you would another but these would be picked up after the test, rather than before meaning that the instructor doesn't have to teach you to ride to pass the test opposed to riding on the roadThe non-intensive DA option I'm looking at is a package of 8 x 2hr lessons. If my CBT was anything to go by, I'd be fairly confident I could get to test standard with that amount of training.
the further training should actually make you more aware of what you are doing when you are out riding opposed to the cbt which is very basic.
bad habits could be lifesavers-too many too few, shoulder checks, road positioning, speed
The weight and the power difference between the 125 and das bike will be noticable, but i wouldn't think about them as a deciding factor when deciding to go das or 125 route
with the new test due to come in on the 1st of october the waiting list for tests is going to be getting pretty long soon and would leave little chance of a re test if you left it too long
as for doing das in 2 hr sessions I'd say no, by the time you get into it the lesson would be finishing, also you'd probably spend half of the next lesson getting back into it. "Intensive " das is actually what I'd always considered the norm, it would give you the same amount of time on the road, just split differently
Imo, do the das then get the bike you decide on, wether that be a 125 or larger machine, saves having to be taught to ride to pass the test
Look at the cost of buying and insuring a 125 plus the depreciation when you sell it again after passing your test.
That depreciation will pay for your next course; go for it now, rather than waste time piddling about for a year on a bike you probably won't enjoy.
Alternatively, to save a bit of cash do your A2 license on a 125 and spend two years on a 33bhp middleweight bike; cheaper to buy, run and insure and better for building braking and cornering experience than a zero to casualty in 2.4 seconds big bike immediately after your test.
Bear in mind though, that many instructors will push you into the das route as it is generally a better earner for the company and they probably don't like spending the time teaching people on 125's when they could be on "proper" bikes.
A decent instructor will teach you all the same skills on a 125 as you would get on a das course anyway, so if you're not in a hurry...
That depreciation will pay for your next course; go for it now, rather than waste time piddling about for a year on a bike you probably won't enjoy.
Alternatively, to save a bit of cash do your A2 license on a 125 and spend two years on a 33bhp middleweight bike; cheaper to buy, run and insure and better for building braking and cornering experience than a zero to casualty in 2.4 seconds big bike immediately after your test.
Bear in mind though, that many instructors will push you into the das route as it is generally a better earner for the company and they probably don't like spending the time teaching people on 125's when they could be on "proper" bikes.
A decent instructor will teach you all the same skills on a 125 as you would get on a das course anyway, so if you're not in a hurry...
Rubin215 said:
Look at the cost of buying and insuring a 125 plus the depreciation when you sell it again after passing your test.
That depreciation will pay for your next course; go for it now, rather than waste time piddling about for a year on a bike you probably won't enjoy.
Alternatively, to save a bit of cash do your A2 license on a 125 and spend two years on a 33bhp middleweight bike
The bike test is nearly identical, the difference being the power of the bike that the tests must be taken on, not going to be a massive difference in costThat depreciation will pay for your next course; go for it now, rather than waste time piddling about for a year on a bike you probably won't enjoy.
Alternatively, to save a bit of cash do your A2 license on a 125 and spend two years on a 33bhp middleweight bike
all bikes will depreciate, especially if dropped a second hand 125 won't loose that much and would be very cheap to insure and would also build up bike ncb if car ncb couldn't be carried over
although it may get boring quickly if intended as weekend toy
Edited by Brite spark on Monday 14th April 23:07
i just did my cbt and das all in one hit (bar a few days in between) and am convinced I wouldnt have passed otherwise. Ive only ridden my bike twice since I passed and Ive already started getting sloppy about things, so the DAS will get you as sharp as can be before bad habits creep in.
get it done, it'd be awful to fail for being too accomplished.
get it done, it'd be awful to fail for being too accomplished.
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