Metal fabrication and basic engineering - China?
Discussion
I've got a number of components that I need fabricating, some of which I have made in the UK, some of which haven't been made yet.
They're all pretty basic components, brackets, pins, simple fixings and they're all in relatively low volumes (running from dozens to a few hundred).
Given the experience I've had with retailers in China before (they'll sell you anything, quickly and cheaply) I was wondering if there were any "known" manufacturers people here use where you could send then 1 of an item and in a few weeks time they'd send you 100 of them back?
They're all pretty basic components, brackets, pins, simple fixings and they're all in relatively low volumes (running from dozens to a few hundred).
Given the experience I've had with retailers in China before (they'll sell you anything, quickly and cheaply) I was wondering if there were any "known" manufacturers people here use where you could send then 1 of an item and in a few weeks time they'd send you 100 of them back?
One problem is finding A "good" manufacturer that will help you with low volumes. Most decent companies will want to produce many thousands or they have little interest in you. You then end up using one of the millions of “back street” places that claim they can help you with anything but end up producing crap.
I am going back to China again next month with a view to set up my own manufacturing facility to help supply companies like yours…
I am going back to China again next month with a view to set up my own manufacturing facility to help supply companies like yours…
Plotloss said:
Surely China production runs will be in the 10s of thousands minimum?
That's the natural assumption. But if a company in the UK will produce 100 widgets at £5 each, why wouldn't a company in a country with much, much lower production costs want to do the job for £3 each when the costs of postage from China are negligible?Interesting topic - I'd never really considered sourcing low volume stuff from China. I guess they must have some decent precision machine shops about too although I presume they are hard to track down from this side of the globe!
Does anyone have any success stories with low qty (1-20's) precision manufacture (turning, 3-axis milling, perhaps wire erosion) from China?
Does anyone have any success stories with low qty (1-20's) precision manufacture (turning, 3-axis milling, perhaps wire erosion) from China?
hey,
have a lot of experience of this. have never managed to get low volume stuff to make sense in china - return shipping costs & time make it a non-starter for me. you can send the stuff back by plane or boat. boat can take about 6 weeks, plane is faster but more money. you can get deals where you wait for a space on a plane without a defined time - this is cheaper when timing is not important.
the way i see things is the manufacturing industry in this country is getting more competetive for low volume, so we shop at home. we have used india / malaysia / south africa and china to name but a few.
try the midlands!
have a lot of experience of this. have never managed to get low volume stuff to make sense in china - return shipping costs & time make it a non-starter for me. you can send the stuff back by plane or boat. boat can take about 6 weeks, plane is faster but more money. you can get deals where you wait for a space on a plane without a defined time - this is cheaper when timing is not important.
the way i see things is the manufacturing industry in this country is getting more competetive for low volume, so we shop at home. we have used india / malaysia / south africa and china to name but a few.
try the midlands!
Muncher said:
They're all pretty basic components, brackets, pins, simple fixings and they're all in relatively low volumes (running from dozens to a few hundred).
LOW VOLUME ? Not worth the hassle of dealing with anyone that's not local. As in very close. like 5 miles. 100's of UK fabicators and machinists are crying out for business, why not use thier experience to design your components cheaper. ....Ish, depends what you are doing Mr POD.
I've not found a machinist within 5 miles prepared to do the jobs at a decent price, always had to go further afield in the UK, but the UK is still pretty small all things considered.
Finding a decent machinist is harder than finding a decent woman I think, luckily the ones I use now are only 1 hour away and although can be a bit lazy/slow, the quality of their stuff is top notch, which is the main thing
I've not found a machinist within 5 miles prepared to do the jobs at a decent price, always had to go further afield in the UK, but the UK is still pretty small all things considered.
Finding a decent machinist is harder than finding a decent woman I think, luckily the ones I use now are only 1 hour away and although can be a bit lazy/slow, the quality of their stuff is top notch, which is the main thing
egomeister said:
Interesting topic - I'd never really considered sourcing low volume stuff from China. I guess they must have some decent precision machine shops about too although I presume they are hard to track down from this side of the globe!
Does anyone have any success stories with low qty (1-20's) precision manufacture (turning, 3-axis milling, perhaps wire erosion) from China?
Yes, we can now offer this service...Does anyone have any success stories with low qty (1-20's) precision manufacture (turning, 3-axis milling, perhaps wire erosion) from China?
China can be ok, if you are buying 50,000 washers with no limits for 5p each.
For volumes like 10's 20's 100's, i just cant see how a company in the UK cant beat china. If you take everything into account, shipping, reject parts, delivery schedules. Buying lower volume parts must be more competitve on our shores for basic milling/turning.. isnt it?..
For volumes like 10's 20's 100's, i just cant see how a company in the UK cant beat china. If you take everything into account, shipping, reject parts, delivery schedules. Buying lower volume parts must be more competitve on our shores for basic milling/turning.. isnt it?..
A few things to bear in mind, the first of which has already been aluded to:
1. Quality & repeatability: I am reliably informed (by someone who employs 300 workers inthe UK and 900 odd in China) that - for the sort of fabrications my compnay might be interesetd in, it's hard to get quality without repeatability (and hence volume) and over that sort of distance, any quality issues are a real pain in the ar5e.
2. Materials; you also need to be aware that in the Far East in general you cannot get all of the grades of raw material you'd expect in Europe and neither are there necessarily skills to machine/weld/fabricate with them.
2. Delivery: from extensive experience of shipping containerised deliveries from various bith of the east; Sri Lanka, South Korea and China, there is absolutely no way of knowing precisely what lead time is on deliveries. Hnce, you don't know what buffer stock you may need to allow in the UK, or what delivery times (if you're making to order) youcan rely on. Excuses/factors include:
- deliveries just miss loading onto the intended vessel.
- the vessel has engine difficulties or weather en-route.
- high winds in UK can often cause a delay in docking and or unloading.
- you can get hit with a one in however many hundred, random custom inspection.
And, if miracles do happen and the stuff arrives far [b[earlier[/b] than planned, don;t expect to leave it at the docks for long without incurring a demuarage charge. Also, the costs of delivery are rising.
There's a few more reasons why we keep a lot of our stuff in the UK: DIGBITS Engineering
It can work sourcing engineering from the Far East, but the criteria needs to be right.
1. Quality & repeatability: I am reliably informed (by someone who employs 300 workers inthe UK and 900 odd in China) that - for the sort of fabrications my compnay might be interesetd in, it's hard to get quality without repeatability (and hence volume) and over that sort of distance, any quality issues are a real pain in the ar5e.
2. Materials; you also need to be aware that in the Far East in general you cannot get all of the grades of raw material you'd expect in Europe and neither are there necessarily skills to machine/weld/fabricate with them.
2. Delivery: from extensive experience of shipping containerised deliveries from various bith of the east; Sri Lanka, South Korea and China, there is absolutely no way of knowing precisely what lead time is on deliveries. Hnce, you don't know what buffer stock you may need to allow in the UK, or what delivery times (if you're making to order) youcan rely on. Excuses/factors include:
- deliveries just miss loading onto the intended vessel.
- the vessel has engine difficulties or weather en-route.
- high winds in UK can often cause a delay in docking and or unloading.
- you can get hit with a one in however many hundred, random custom inspection.
And, if miracles do happen and the stuff arrives far [b[earlier[/b] than planned, don;t expect to leave it at the docks for long without incurring a demuarage charge. Also, the costs of delivery are rising.
There's a few more reasons why we keep a lot of our stuff in the UK: DIGBITS Engineering
It can work sourcing engineering from the Far East, but the criteria needs to be right.
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