Age related plate question...
Discussion
If you build a car that has a single donor vehicle:
New chassis, body, gearbox, brake system, wiring loom, wheels
Reconditioned suspension, engine and some engine ancillaries
Original diff, rear axel, modified prop, dials and some engine ancillaries
Think it'll get a Q, new or age related plate?!
New chassis, body, gearbox, brake system, wiring loom, wheels
Reconditioned suspension, engine and some engine ancillaries
Original diff, rear axel, modified prop, dials and some engine ancillaries
Think it'll get a Q, new or age related plate?!
It will get a 'Q'.
To get a new reg it would have to be all new apart from one major assembly like the engine which would have to be re-manufactured to an as new quality.
The vehicle must score eight or more points to retain the original registration mark. If less than eight points are scored or a second-hand or modified chassis or altered monocoque bodyshell is used, a single vehicle approval (SVA) certificate will be required to register the vehicle. A 'Q' prefix registration number will be allocated.
Scoring components
The following values will be allocated to the major components used:
* chassis or body shell (body and chassis as one unit - monocoque ie direct replacement from the manufacturer) (original or new) = 5 points
* suspension = 2 points
* axles = 2 points
* transmission = 2 points
* steering assembly = 2 points
* engine = 1 point
Steve
To get a new reg it would have to be all new apart from one major assembly like the engine which would have to be re-manufactured to an as new quality.
The vehicle must score eight or more points to retain the original registration mark. If less than eight points are scored or a second-hand or modified chassis or altered monocoque bodyshell is used, a single vehicle approval (SVA) certificate will be required to register the vehicle. A 'Q' prefix registration number will be allocated.
Scoring components
The following values will be allocated to the major components used:
* chassis or body shell (body and chassis as one unit - monocoque ie direct replacement from the manufacturer) (original or new) = 5 points
* suspension = 2 points
* axles = 2 points
* transmission = 2 points
* steering assembly = 2 points
* engine = 1 point
Steve
A trip down memory lane there Steve.
The rules changed about 10 years ago.
Dave you would get an "Age relatesd" reg for that mate ;o)
Nowadays all you have to use to retain an age related plate is any 2 of the following from the donor vehicle:-
1. Body/chassis
2. Steering mechanism
3. Engine
4. transmission
5. Axles (Front and rear)
6. Suspension.
You can recondition the 2 items as much as you like,it makes ono difference.
For a new (08) reg. you need to have all new items on the above list except one, but this one must be reconditioned to an "As new" or better standard.
Your car falls firmly in the age related catagory.
The rules changed about 10 years ago.
Dave you would get an "Age relatesd" reg for that mate ;o)
Nowadays all you have to use to retain an age related plate is any 2 of the following from the donor vehicle:-
1. Body/chassis
2. Steering mechanism
3. Engine
4. transmission
5. Axles (Front and rear)
6. Suspension.
You can recondition the 2 items as much as you like,it makes ono difference.
For a new (08) reg. you need to have all new items on the above list except one, but this one must be reconditioned to an "As new" or better standard.
Your car falls firmly in the age related catagory.
Edited by Dave Dax builder on Wednesday 23 April 08:12
Thanks.
A bit more background. We are getting a Westie XI and want to an age related plate (preferably pre-66 for pretending we fit in at Goodwood).
Looking at the list, we'll be using the steering rack & most of the column (I think we need another UJ for saftey) too so I think Dave's right and we'll get and age related plate pretty easily.
One thing though, I read somewhere yesterday of something I'd not thought of before (to really make sure we get an age related plate)...
If I have a new engine and gearbox it is actually for the donor, I think that even though the donor is SORN I legally have to tell VOSA, who need to update their records and send me a new V5 to reflect the actual status of the donor car.
Now the donor car has papers for this engine and gearbox, so we are using the parts from the original car, so are using more parts to ensure we get an age related plate.
However, if I was an examiner, I think I'd smell a fish here, but the papers are correct and legal so I'm not sure how it'd go down... Maybe just be upfront with the examiner at the SVA?
A bit more background. We are getting a Westie XI and want to an age related plate (preferably pre-66 for pretending we fit in at Goodwood).
Looking at the list, we'll be using the steering rack & most of the column (I think we need another UJ for saftey) too so I think Dave's right and we'll get and age related plate pretty easily.
One thing though, I read somewhere yesterday of something I'd not thought of before (to really make sure we get an age related plate)...
If I have a new engine and gearbox it is actually for the donor, I think that even though the donor is SORN I legally have to tell VOSA, who need to update their records and send me a new V5 to reflect the actual status of the donor car.
Now the donor car has papers for this engine and gearbox, so we are using the parts from the original car, so are using more parts to ensure we get an age related plate.
However, if I was an examiner, I think I'd smell a fish here, but the papers are correct and legal so I'm not sure how it'd go down... Maybe just be upfront with the examiner at the SVA?
Edited by Foolish Dave on Wednesday 23 April 13:39
Dave Dax builder said:
A trip down memory lane there Steve.
The rules changed about 10 years ago.
Dave you would get an "Age relatesd" reg for that mate ;o)
Nowadays all you have to use to retain an age related plate is any 2 of the following from the donor vehicle:-
1. Body/chassis
2. Steering mechanism
3. Engine
4. transmission
5. Axles (Front and rear)
6. Suspension.
You can recondition the 2 items as much as you like,it makes ono difference.
For a new (08) reg. you need to have all new items on the above list except one, but this one must be reconditioned to an "As new" or better standard.
Your car falls firmly in the age related catagory.
One thing I've been pondering on... with that list, it's a bit, well vague really! The rules changed about 10 years ago.
Dave you would get an "Age relatesd" reg for that mate ;o)
Nowadays all you have to use to retain an age related plate is any 2 of the following from the donor vehicle:-
1. Body/chassis
2. Steering mechanism
3. Engine
4. transmission
5. Axles (Front and rear)
6. Suspension.
You can recondition the 2 items as much as you like,it makes ono difference.
For a new (08) reg. you need to have all new items on the above list except one, but this one must be reconditioned to an "As new" or better standard.
Your car falls firmly in the age related catagory.
Edited by Dave Dax builder on Wednesday 23 April 08:12
e.g. suspension... if I use the uprights, brakes and callipers, from the donor, but different shocks and springs with a previously not included rocker, can I still tick suspension? What constitutes front and rear axles? does the stub axle suffice for the front? Can I just take the steering column, or does it have to use the steering rack as well? etc etc etc.
I'm thinking along the same lines - I want to keep some suspension, but use new consumable parts (coil & dampers say) but then that's 'reconditioning' ... isn't it? It's not changing the spec. And I still use the majority of the section mentioned even if I do modify it while reconditioning them.
From scouring the web it seems that in recent times they don't like putting out more Q plates, so they try to get new or age-related plates and keep it vague on purpose.
Not sure what the IVA will do to this, and I've not found anywhere that puts out the full IVA document and supporting documents online. It also doesn't help that IVA is a finance term that has a lot of companies giving out 'free advice' on.
From scouring the web it seems that in recent times they don't like putting out more Q plates, so they try to get new or age-related plates and keep it vague on purpose.
Not sure what the IVA will do to this, and I've not found anywhere that puts out the full IVA document and supporting documents online. It also doesn't help that IVA is a finance term that has a lot of companies giving out 'free advice' on.
Edited by Foolish Dave on Wednesday 23 April 11:43
Anything that moves up and down in relation to the chassis is technically suspension. The "Axle" would be the stub axle etc.
The system is kind of geared up for old Transits or Land Rovers where the axle is a beam rather than independent.
To qualify for steering mechanism you really should be using both column and rack. (The switchgear on a donor column however is not counted as part of the steering mechanism.)
Doing a "paperwork change" to make it look like your engine has come from the donor is very much frowned upon. Not a problem if the engine being used is what would have been fittted to the donor in the first place. 900cc Honda Fire blade powered Sierra donors are a big no no.
The system is kind of geared up for old Transits or Land Rovers where the axle is a beam rather than independent.
To qualify for steering mechanism you really should be using both column and rack. (The switchgear on a donor column however is not counted as part of the steering mechanism.)
Doing a "paperwork change" to make it look like your engine has come from the donor is very much frowned upon. Not a problem if the engine being used is what would have been fittted to the donor in the first place. 900cc Honda Fire blade powered Sierra donors are a big no no.
Dave Dax builder said:
Anything that moves up and down in relation to the chassis is technically suspension.
Thanks Dave, just to clarify this ^^^ one point, does that mean you need to use ALL of the suspension to qualify, or that even if only one part is used can truthfully result in a tick in the box?FlossyThePig said:
Foolish Dave said:
A bit more background. We are getting a Westie XI and want to an age related plate (preferably pre-66 for pretending we fit in at Goodwood).
Age related doesn't mean you can use the old style black and white pressed steel plates. The engine, in our case, will still be a BMC A series, but it may be a different displacement. The gearbox is not something that would generally be fitted, but I think I've heard of an Sprite with a Type 9 'box fitted... I'll have a dig on the net and get some evidence.
Edited by Foolish Dave on Wednesday 23 April 13:49
When my car came to registering I said I had used the original donor suspension, steering, axle and gearbox, my local DVLA didnt even check, she came out and just asked to see the chassis number, then went back in to do the paperwork.
As it happened I had all new Gaz adjustables all round, axle and gearbox were same item as its transaxle,so that was 2 point each for same item, if they had asked I would have just said yes it was of the renault just be reconditioned but didnt even need to. You will find SVA has nothing to do with registering so dont get them confused.
As it happened I had all new Gaz adjustables all round, axle and gearbox were same item as its transaxle,so that was 2 point each for same item, if they had asked I would have just said yes it was of the renault just be reconditioned but didnt even need to. You will find SVA has nothing to do with registering so dont get them confused.
migwell said:
When my car came to registering I said I had used the original donor suspension, steering, axle and gearbox, my local DVLA didnt even check, she came out and just asked to see the chassis number, then went back in to do the paperwork.
As it happened I had all new Gaz adjustables all round, axle and gearbox were same item as its transaxle,so that was 2 point each for same item, if they had asked I would have just said yes it was of the renault just be reconditioned but didnt even need to. You will find SVA has nothing to do with registering so dont get them confused.
But I thought the SVA/IVA process gives you a piece of paper and depending on what that says depends on what registration plate VOSA gives you?As it happened I had all new Gaz adjustables all round, axle and gearbox were same item as its transaxle,so that was 2 point each for same item, if they had asked I would have just said yes it was of the renault just be reconditioned but didnt even need to. You will find SVA has nothing to do with registering so dont get them confused.
I had my SVA and they gave me a certificate similar to a MOT, this was to confirm it was road worthy and conformed to the SVA specification.
Then took this to the local DVLA who just glanced at it to say yes it had passed, all the other info they used was from my original paperwork I filled out applying for registering, this is the piece that asked about donor, new parts etc,and points on what I used, SVA wasnt intrested in any donor except
the engine for emissions. Even then they wouldnt accept my donor log book as they said it could have had an engine change so had to go by engine number to get it passed.
Just for the record I used new chassis and body, everthing else was off varied other vehicles.
To get my 8 points to avoid Q plate, body and chassis gave 5, gearbox and axle gave 2 each, giving me 9 total, to avoid any problems by only using the gearbox from a donor I also said I had used steering rack, suspension and brakes, so that made my points over 11, none were checked, all they wanted to know was the chassis number was stamped.
This was just over 2 years ago, suppose it depends how your DVLA office are, but if you show them a steering rack, would they know it was from a Granada not a Renault? doubt it
Then took this to the local DVLA who just glanced at it to say yes it had passed, all the other info they used was from my original paperwork I filled out applying for registering, this is the piece that asked about donor, new parts etc,and points on what I used, SVA wasnt intrested in any donor except
the engine for emissions. Even then they wouldnt accept my donor log book as they said it could have had an engine change so had to go by engine number to get it passed.
Just for the record I used new chassis and body, everthing else was off varied other vehicles.
To get my 8 points to avoid Q plate, body and chassis gave 5, gearbox and axle gave 2 each, giving me 9 total, to avoid any problems by only using the gearbox from a donor I also said I had used steering rack, suspension and brakes, so that made my points over 11, none were checked, all they wanted to know was the chassis number was stamped.
This was just over 2 years ago, suppose it depends how your DVLA office are, but if you show them a steering rack, would they know it was from a Granada not a Renault? doubt it
migwell said:
I had my SVA and they gave me a certificate similar to a MOT, this was to confirm it was road worthy and conformed to the SVA specification.
Then took this to the local DVLA who just glanced at it to say yes it had passed, all the other info they used was from my original paperwork I filled out applying for registering, this is the piece that asked about donor, new parts etc,and points on what I used, SVA wasnt intrested in any donor except
the engine for emissions. Even then they wouldnt accept my donor log book as they said it could have had an engine change so had to go by engine number to get it passed.
Just for the record I used new chassis and body, everthing else was off varied other vehicles.
To get my 8 points to avoid Q plate, body and chassis gave 5, gearbox and axle gave 2 each, giving me 9 total, to avoid any problems by only using the gearbox from a donor I also said I had used steering rack, suspension and brakes, so that made my points over 11, none were checked, all they wanted to know was the chassis number was stamped.
This was just over 2 years ago, suppose it depends how your DVLA office are, but if you show them a steering rack, would they know it was from a Granada not a Renault? doubt it
I suppose you are allowed to modify items to fit as well - how would they know you hadn't modified the steering rack even if they knew the original!Then took this to the local DVLA who just glanced at it to say yes it had passed, all the other info they used was from my original paperwork I filled out applying for registering, this is the piece that asked about donor, new parts etc,and points on what I used, SVA wasnt intrested in any donor except
the engine for emissions. Even then they wouldnt accept my donor log book as they said it could have had an engine change so had to go by engine number to get it passed.
Just for the record I used new chassis and body, everthing else was off varied other vehicles.
To get my 8 points to avoid Q plate, body and chassis gave 5, gearbox and axle gave 2 each, giving me 9 total, to avoid any problems by only using the gearbox from a donor I also said I had used steering rack, suspension and brakes, so that made my points over 11, none were checked, all they wanted to know was the chassis number was stamped.
This was just over 2 years ago, suppose it depends how your DVLA office are, but if you show them a steering rack, would they know it was from a Granada not a Renault? doubt it
The 8 points thing and kit cars etc.is history.
But don't just take my word for it.
Here it is on the govt website.
BTW we are talking about a "Kit Conversion" here.
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/BuyingAndSell...
And here's a link to the form which asks about where the parts have come from.
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Diol1/DoItOnline/DG_40...
But don't just take my word for it.
Here it is on the govt website.
BTW we are talking about a "Kit Conversion" here.
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/BuyingAndSell...
And here's a link to the form which asks about where the parts have come from.
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Diol1/DoItOnline/DG_40...
Edited by Dave Dax builder on Wednesday 23 April 17:48
Dave Dax builder said:
Don't take my word for it then.
Here it is on the govt website.
BTW we are talking about a "Kit Conversion" here.
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/BuyingAndSell...
And here's a link to the form which asks about where the parts have come from.
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Diol1/DoItOnline/DG_40...
wasn't doubting you at all (if that was aimed at me) just working out what exactly I could get away with (as in, what would fit with my design) to get an age related. I don't want a new reg but I also don't want a Q plate, but it's going to be tricky as to which two major components I can get it registered using without too much compromise. If I can keep as many options open at this point all the better Here it is on the govt website.
BTW we are talking about a "Kit Conversion" here.
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/BuyingAndSell...
And here's a link to the form which asks about where the parts have come from.
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Diol1/DoItOnline/DG_40...
Edited by Dave Dax builder on Wednesday 23 April 17:42
Dave Dax builder said:
Hi Davi.
Not aimed at you ;o)
You'll be fine. Forums are not always the best place to discuss grey areas....If you know what i mean ;o)
Feel free to give me a call and I'll talk you through the finer points if you like.
Good stuff, cheers Not aimed at you ;o)
You'll be fine. Forums are not always the best place to discuss grey areas....If you know what i mean ;o)
Feel free to give me a call and I'll talk you through the finer points if you like.
Edited by Dave Dax builder on Wednesday 23 April 17:51
When are good times to call? Need to firm up idea's with the workshop build finally starting on the 19th may!
Gassing Station | Kit Cars | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff