GT5 online ... not happy.

[Strangely Brown]

If GT5 Prologue has one major fault it's not the penalty system. Nor is it the AI. Nor is it the lack of tracks or cars (hey, it's called Prologue for a reason). Oh no... the problem is in the online play. Sure there are no private games so you cannot race your mates but that's not it either. The problem, is the number of wrs that simply quit the game just because they either don't like their start position or because they crash. In a normal client/server environment this would not be a problem because everyone else would just carry on quite happily and the quitter would affect nobody. But... in the GT5 world, one of the players with a decent network connection is the host of the game, and THAT is when the problems start. If the numpty bd that quits happens to be the host then everyone else gets disconnected. Unfortunately this seems to be all too common. There are A LOT of kids/wrs/loser scum out there and consequently the PP700 race at Suzuka is practically unplayable. Even if you manage to get started the chances are that you will get a disconnect before you can finish. After the eighth time in a row it has moved from merely tedious to downright fking annoying. Why the fk Sony thought that this model would be a good idea for online gaming in an environment that is known to made up mainly of kids I cannot imagine. If this is the only viable model without massive investment in infrastructure then FFS make it so that the host of the game cannot quit and fk it up for everyone else. It's not hard. If machine=host then disable quit button. By all means leave it so that they can quit the whole game or shutdown the system but that would involve them losing all money earned in that session and would also likely be such a pain in the arse that they would quickly become tired of doing it and would either see the races through to the end or not bother racing online at all. Either is good.

Not much of a rant but I am sure I am not alone in being pissed off with such childish, cheating, fking annoying behaviour.

To anyone reading this who does it... if you can't play properly then fk OFF and leave the game to those of us who can.

Edited by Strangely Brown on Sunday 27th April 17:52

[franv8]

Oh dear - can see why you're getting miffed.

Good news is £150 + £40 + £40 sees you on Forza 2 where this doesn't happen!

Sorry- couldn't resist! Hope it sorts out for you, sadly going online means you, presumably due to a shortage of androids, have to interface with other human beings, many of whom lack even the basic intelligence of inanimate objects...

[skylinecrazy]

lol, when we get private servers this will be sorted, although yea their are quite a few knobs who quit when they crash, but on daytona road this doesn't appear to be so much of a problem

[-Z-]

Strangely Brown said:

scooby wrx sti said:

because of the online community

What is it with this "online community" rubbish. Why do you think the "online community" is so much better/bigger/cooler on the 360? If all of your friends have a 360 and you can choose who you play with then that's one thing; But if you're just going to "play online" then WTF difference does it make?

Irony of ironies

This is the biggest difference between xbox live and the unregulated chaotic thing that is PSN. Sony dont get any money from it so there is no impetus to get it right. At least XBL is semi-centralised, monitored and regulated. It seems good value when you take into account the benefits.

[thekirbyfake]

-Z- said:

Strangely Brown said:

scooby wrx sti said:

because of the online community

What is it with this "online community" rubbish. Why do you think the "online community" is so much better/bigger/cooler on the 360? If all of your friends have a 360 and you can choose who you play with then that's one thing; But if you're just going to "play online" then WTF difference does it make?

Irony of ironies

Haha. Was thinking the same.

[Strangely Brown]

thekirbyfake said:

-Z- said:

Strangely Brown said:

scooby wrx sti said:

because of the online community

What is it with this "online community" rubbish. Why do you think the "online community" is so much better/bigger/cooler on the 360? If all of your friends have a 360 and you can choose who you play with then that's one thing; But if you're just going to "play online" then WTF difference does it make?

Irony of ironies

Haha. Was thinking the same.

Oh behave yourselves. If GT5 existed for the 360 and used the same network model you would have the same problem. Don't go getting all smug now fanboys. Do you really believe that Xbox live would prevent dheads that quit the race when hosting? Errr, no.

If private races ever arrive then the problem will likely go away... or at least you'll know who's responsible and can do something about it.

[Dellage]

Strangely Brown said:

Oh behave yourselves. If GT5 existed for the 360 and used the same network model you would have the same problem. Don't go getting all smug now fanboys. Do you really believe that Xbox live would prevent dheads that quit the race when hosting? Errr, no.

If private races ever arrive then the problem will likely go away... or at least you'll know who's responsible and can do something about it.

I think their point is with the nice paid for xbox live infrastructure in place that kind of network model wouldn't have to be used, hence the problem wouldn't occur.

But then I know nothing about how these things work so the above could be total rubbish!

I just play the games and enjoy them, and all the fanboy bickering really winds me up.

Shame to hear about your GT5 grief, I can appreciate how very annoying that must be

[Strangely Brown]

Dellage said:

I think their point is with the nice paid for xbox live infrastructure in place that kind of network model wouldn't have to be used, hence the problem wouldn't occur.

But then I know nothing about how these things work so the above could be total rubbish!

IF xbox live had such a massive server infrastructure then perhaps the problem wouldn't exist, but, AIUI that's not how it works. I believe that even in the xbox live world there are still individuals that host the private games. MS would simply not be able to provide an infrastructure that allowed everyone to have a private server who wanted one.

I am happy to be corrected if I am wrong but I would be really surprised if the potential for the same problem didn't exist in the xbox world despite the paid for service.

[franv8]

On XBL - certainly Forza 2, doesn't matter who quits the race still goes on.

[Digby]

franv8 said:

On XBL - certainly Forza 2, doesn't matter who quits the race still goes on.

Indeed, control just passes to one of the remaining players once back in the lobby.It will do this until there is only one person left in the game and then even they would have the choice to simply wait for more players to join should they want to carry on hosting/changing options etc.

[Mr E]

Strangely Brown said:

Oh behave yourselves. If GT5 existed for the 360 and used the same network model you would have the same problem. Don't go getting all smug now fanboys. Do you really believe that Xbox live would prevent dheads that quit the race when hosting? Errr, no.

It does use the same networking model.

Strangely Brown said:

I am happy to be corrected if I am wrong but I would be really surprised if the potential for the same problem didn't exist in the xbox world despite the paid for service.

Potentially, you could have the same thing (errors occur everywhere), but I've certainly played games where just about every player has left or joined at some point and the slaughter continues.

Digby said:

franv8 said:

On XBL - certainly Forza 2, doesn't matter who quits the race still goes on.

Indeed, control just passes to one of the remaining players once back in the lobby.It will do this until there is only one person left in the game and then even they would have the choice to simply wait for more players to join should they want to carry on hosting/changing options etc.

Disco. I was quite impressed the first time I saw a "switching host" message...

[Strangely Brown]

Mr E said:

Strangely Brown said:

Oh behave yourselves. If GT5 existed for the 360 and used the same network model you would have the same problem. Don't go getting all smug now fanboys. Do you really believe that Xbox live would prevent dheads that quit the race when hosting? Errr, no.

It does use the same networking model.

Strangely Brown said:

I am happy to be corrected if I am wrong but I would be really surprised if the potential for the same problem didn't exist in the xbox world despite the paid for service.

Potentially, you could have the same thing (errors occur everywhere), but I've certainly played games where just about every player has left or joined at some point and the slaughter continues.

So, not quite the same model then. Or the same model but with the ability to cope if the host disappears ...

Mr E said:

Digby said:

franv8 said:

On XBL - certainly Forza 2, doesn't matter who quits the race still goes on.

Indeed, control just passes to one of the remaining players once back in the lobby.It will do this until there is only one person left in the game and then even they would have the choice to simply wait for more players to join should they want to carry on hosting/changing options etc.

Disco. I was quite impressed the first time I saw a "switching host" message...

... like that.

I honestly don't care what alternative model or system they use to deal with the problem so long as the online play doesn't make it into the final game as it is. The fact that one player has the ability to continually fk it up for everyone else is simply not acceptable. It is really no fun racing for 3 or 4 laps, working your way from the back of the field to a decent money earning position, only be presented with a dialog that says, "You have been disconnected from the server", and all because some pathetic st has fallen off the track and doesn't have the moral fibre or decency to get back on and see it through to the end.

Where does this "win or quit" attitude come from? this, "I'm not playing if I can't win, it's my ball and I'm going home". Yes, I know that second place is the first loser and all that but has the sense of fair-play really gone from kids today?

Edited by Strangely Brown on Monday 28th April 08:52

[Mr E]

Strangely Brown said:

So, not quite the same model then. Or the same model but with the ability to cope if the host disappears ...

... like that.

I honestly don't care what alternative model or system they use to deal with the problem so long as the online play doesn't make it into the final game as it is. The fact that one player has the ability to continually fk it up for everyone else is simply not acceptable. It is really no fun racing for 3 or 4 laps, working your way from the back of the field to a decent money earning position, only be presented with a dialog that says, "You have been disconnected from the server", and all because some pathetic st has fallen off the track and doesn't have the moral fibre or decency to get back on and see it through to the end.

Where does this "win or quit" attitude come from? this, "I'm not playing if I can't win, it's my ball and I'm going home". Yes, I know that second place is the first loser and all that but has the sense of fair-play really gone from kids today?

I hear your pain. If I'd managed to fight my way to the front despite the average god awful driving of most online players, and then had the game dump out on me because one of them quit, I suspect controller might be meeting plasma at some speed...

[-Z-]

That does sound annoying.

They really do have no excuse. I remember playing PGR2 3/4 years ago on the original Xbox and even in that the race would go on if the host dropped out so at least you get the credits etc.

[Neil_H]

Strangely Brown said:

I honestly don't care what alternative model or system they use to deal with the problem so long as the online play doesn't make it into the final game as it is. The fact that one player has the ability to continually fk it up for everyone else is simply not acceptable. It is really no fun racing for 3 or 4 laps, working your way from the back of the field to a decent money earning position, only be presented with a dialog that says, "You have been disconnected from the server", and all because some pathetic st has fallen off the track and doesn't have the moral fibre or decency to get back on and see it through to the end.

Where does this "win or quit" attitude come from? this, "I'm not playing if I can't win, it's my ball and I'm going home". Yes, I know that second place is the first loser and all that but has the sense of fair-play really gone from kids today?

Edited by Strangely Brown on Monday 28th April 08:52

I have to say I've not had that happen to me yet, but that could be because I'm usually the host (I have 12meg down/ 1 meg up connection which could be why). I also don't race Suzuka, I tend to avoid the tight, technical tracks as they just degrade into ramming contests. I find the most enjoyable tracks are the high speed ones - High Speed Ring and Daytona, where there's plenty of room.

They do need to sort out the penalty system and ensure that people who ram are penalised. Maybe a 2-3 strikes and you're kicked type of rule. It's so irritating to work hard getting past someone with a nice overtake and then being hit as the idiot tries to retake you by entering the corner at full speed.

I think it would also benefit from a rating system, where you can rate someone's driving and then use that as a basis for who you race against. So kiddies who think driving is a contact sport can only race other kiddies.

Or, failing that, a complete lack of collisions where you can drive through other cars - at least as an option.

[thekirbyfake]

Strangely Brown said:

Where does this "win or quit" attitude come from? this, "I'm not playing if I can't win, it's my ball and I'm going home". Yes, I know that second place is the first loser and all that but has the sense of fair-play really gone from kids today?

Quite possibly from the American sports set up where winning is everything. In American sports there can never be a draw which is why football is doomed to (relative) failure. Even after a hard fought basketball game where the final score is 110-110 they don't pat each other on the back and say "Good game, old chap", they go into overtime until someone loses. There *MUST* be a winner.

The NBA finals are on at the moment and they will have only one winner. They've played all year in a league structure and are now in a knockout cup. The team who loses in the final will have played over 100 games during the season and will get nothing for it. Not a bean.

Winning is everything. To quote the Reverend MC Hammer "Either work hard or you might as well quit"

Going back to the fanboy debate, the point about XBL is there are loads of PH fights/races etc. where the host never quits. We've had huge 9v9 shootouts without a squeaky American kid in sight.

Not saying the physical structure is any better or worse than PS3 online (don't know, never tried) more that with noticabley more X than P owners here it makes for more possibility of group games.

[Strangely Brown]

Neil_H said:

I have to say I've not had that happen to me yet, but that could be because I'm usually the host (I have 12meg down/ 1 meg up connection which could be why).

I've always wondered but have never seen any indicator, how do you know that you're the host? Is there something that says that you are?

Neil_H said:

I also don't race Suzuka, I tend to avoid the tight, technical tracks as they just degrade into ramming contests. I find the most enjoyable tracks are the high speed ones - High Speed Ring and Daytona, where there's plenty of room.

Quite so. The problem is really most apparent at Suzuka where the gravel traps are real race killers. One mistake and your whole race suddenly becomes a whole lot harder and you're fighting to finish in the midfield.

The High-Speed circuits do seem to be a lot better and tend to get through to completion far more often. Of course, you still have to contend with the numpties that think the best way through a corner is to enter at full speed and use whatever happens to be in the way to get them round. At HSR you even get people deliberately running the wrong way round the track. 'cos it's a larf innit.

Neil_H said:

They do need to sort out the penalty system and ensure that people who ram are penalised. Maybe a 2-3 strikes and you're kicked type of rule. It's so irritating to work hard getting past someone with a nice overtake and then being hit as the idiot tries to retake you by entering the corner at full speed.

Agreed. The penalty system is basically good but I do get frustrated by people ramming me at full speed and then I get a penalty for barrier impact or end up the gravel trap while they just bugger off unscathed.

Neil_H said:

I think it would also benefit from a rating system, where you can rate someone's driving and then use that as a basis for who you race against. So kiddies who think driving is a contact sport can only race other kiddies.

I think that would open up a world of hurt. Can you imaging being rated as a crap driver by the kiddies just because you happened to beat them? Believe me, it would happen.

Neil_H said:

Or, failing that, a complete lack of collisions where you can drive through other cars - at least as an option.

I don't know what the answer is, but maybe things will get better when the damage model is introduced. Then the penalty system could be dropped for all but the most blatant of infringements. If the car is damaged and, even better, if it costs money to fix it, then maybe people would be more careful with their driving. If the car is incapable of winning if you drive it into things and you're not allowed to quit if you're the host then things could improve no end.

After all, these people MUST be capable of driving properly if they have to. Think about the Nürburgring time-trial licence on GT4 in the Merc 190 Evo II. That was fking hard to get right and you failed for the slightest of errors. Yet, people still managed it. Because they HAD to.

Edited by Strangely Brown on Monday 28th April 10:44

[Neil_H]

Strangely Brown said:

Neil_H said:

I have to say I've not had that happen to me yet, but that could be because I'm usually the host (I have 12meg down/ 1 meg up connection which could be why).

I've always wondered but have never seen any indicator, how do you know that you're the host? Is there something that says that you are?

Neil_H said:

I also don't race Suzuka, I tend to avoid the tight, technical tracks as they just degrade into ramming contests. I find the most enjoyable tracks are the high speed ones - High Speed Ring and Daytona, where there's plenty of room.

Quite so. The problem is really most apparent at Suzuka where the gravel traps are real race killers. One mistake and your whole race suddenly becomes a whole lot harder and you're fighting to finish in the midfield.

The High-Speed circuits do seem to be a lot better and tend to get through to completion far more often. Of course, you still have to contend with the numpties that think the best way through a corner is to enter at full speed and use whatever happens to be in the way to get them round. At HSR you even get people deliberately running the wrong way round the track. 'cos it's a larf innit.

Neil_H said:

They do need to sort out the penalty system and ensure that people who ram are penalised. Maybe a 2-3 strikes and you're kicked type of rule. It's so irritating to work hard getting past someone with a nice overtake and then being hit as the idiot tries to retake you by entering the corner at full speed.

Agreed. The penalty system is basically good but I do get frustrated by people ramming me at full speed and then I get a penalty for barrier impact or end up the gravel trap while they just bugger off unscathed.

Neil_H said:

I think it would also benefit from a rating system, where you can rate someone's driving and then use that as a basis for who you race against. So kiddies who think driving is a contact sport can only race other kiddies.

I think that would open up a world of hurt. Can you imaging being rated as a crap driver by the kiddies just because you happened to beat them? Believe me, it would happen.

Neil_H said:

Or, failing that, a complete lack of collisions where you can drive through other cars - at least as an option.

I don't know what the answer is, but maybe things will get better when the damage model is introduced. Then the penalty system could be dropped for all but the most blatant of infringements. If the car is damaged and, even better, if it costs money to fix it, then maybe people would be more careful with their driving. If the car is incapable of winning if you drive it into things and you're not allowed to quit if you're the host then things could improve no end.

After all, these people MUST be capable of driving properly if they have to. Think about the Nürburgring time-trial licence on GT4 in the Merc 190 Evo II. That was fking hard to get right and you failed for the slightest of errors. Yet, people still managed it. Because they HAD to.

Edited by Strangely Brown on Monday 28th April 10:44

AFAIK the person in position 1 in the list of players is the host - since they're the first player in the game, they must be.

It wouldn't have to be a feedback system as such, perhaps a points system where you lose points for every impact with a barrier/ other car and gain points for clean driving. I suppose the difficulty would be in determining who hit who. I definitely think any collision where someone hits you from behind should be punished severely, as there's really no excuse for that. And they seem to be the most common - being shunted into a barrier at a corner. You do this twice, you get kicked. Lose too many points and you automatically start every race at the back of the grid, or get weight penalties on your car etc etc

[ih8thisname]

franv8 said:

On XBL - certainly Forza 2, doesn't matter who quits the race still goes on.

Not on COD4..

I can understand your anger.

Edited by ih8thisname on Monday 28th April 19:40

[collateral]

Heh, I saw that message on the screen and assumed it was my net on the fritz...

You would have thought the game would delegate someone a 2nd choice server incase the host bailed.

I'd say getting nailed into walls by cocks who either don't know what their brakes are for, or are just malicious little s is more annoying though