advice needed for May drive - Alps route?
Discussion
I have planned a trip through europe for my stag do starting on the 9th of May.
we're planning on the following:
10th May - Nurburgring
11th May - drive to Munich
12th May - drive to Bolzano via the Timmelsjoch Pass (hoping to visit Neuschwanstein castle near munich in morning)
13th May - drive to Lake Como via the Stelvio Pass
14th May - drive to Monte Carlo
15th May - drive to Chamonix Mont-Blanc
16th May - drive back to Calais (visiting Reims abandonned track on the way)
the problem i've got at the moment is to do with the Alpine part of the trip - i have a feeling that a lot of the roads that we had planned to go on will be closed by snow. I guess we'll need to call ahead on the day we are planning on going and make sure that they are open but in case they are not can anyone suggest an alternative route for the following days.....
Neuschwanstein to Bolzano - if Timmelsjoch is closed i thought we could just do the Brenner Pass but heard this was boring - any other ideas.
Bolzano to Como - again we were hoping to do the Stelvio but i think it will be closed - any idea of another interesting drive?
ScottMc91 said:
I have planned a trip through europe for my stag do starting on the 9th of May.
we're planning on the following:
10th May - Nurburgring
11th May - drive to Munich
12th May - drive to Bolzano via the Timmelsjoch Pass (hoping to visit Neuschwanstein castle near munich in morning)
13th May - drive to Lake Como via the Stelvio Pass
14th May - drive to Monte Carlo
15th May - drive to Chamonix Mont-Blanc
16th May - drive back to Calais (visiting Reims abandonned track on the way)
You haven't done much continental touring, have you ?we're planning on the following:
10th May - Nurburgring
11th May - drive to Munich
12th May - drive to Bolzano via the Timmelsjoch Pass (hoping to visit Neuschwanstein castle near munich in morning)
13th May - drive to Lake Como via the Stelvio Pass
14th May - drive to Monte Carlo
15th May - drive to Chamonix Mont-Blanc
16th May - drive back to Calais (visiting Reims abandonned track on the way)
Consecutive days of 300-400 mile runs isn't IMHO
a holiday, it's an endurance test.
All you need on http://www.alpineroads.com/
Try to save some time from all the driving to
do something else.
Early May most of the higher passes will be convered in snow.
You *have* put winter tyres on your car, haven't you ?
thanks for the replies guys, this is indeed our first visit to the continent but the mileage does not put us off (as perhaps it should)- i suspect that 3-4 hours of driving a day shouldn't be too much. We have all done a lot of touring in the uk covering similar distances in the same periods of time and we plan to share the driving (there are 5 of us in 3 cars).
None of us have snow tyres and at this stage it will be too late to get them anyway - i was under the impression these would not be necessary if the road was open?
I checked out Alpineroads.com (this is where i had looked previously) and have discovered 2 alternative routes which i think we will take now.....
Munich to Bolzano: on the main Brenner pass motorway and then at Sterzling leave the motorway and head to Meran using the Jaufen pass (i think that is what it is called at least!) - this route is not particularly high so should be fine for snow.
Bolzano to Como: ok looks like Stelvio is a definite no go sadly. Instead we plan to take the Mendel Pass which is to the southern border of the Stelvio National Park - again this isn't as high but looks like it will still be challenging.
hope this sounds a bit more reasonable!
None of us have snow tyres and at this stage it will be too late to get them anyway - i was under the impression these would not be necessary if the road was open?
I checked out Alpineroads.com (this is where i had looked previously) and have discovered 2 alternative routes which i think we will take now.....
Munich to Bolzano: on the main Brenner pass motorway and then at Sterzling leave the motorway and head to Meran using the Jaufen pass (i think that is what it is called at least!) - this route is not particularly high so should be fine for snow.
Bolzano to Como: ok looks like Stelvio is a definite no go sadly. Instead we plan to take the Mendel Pass which is to the southern border of the Stelvio National Park - again this isn't as high but looks like it will still be challenging.
hope this sounds a bit more reasonable!
We did Brenner and then the Jaufen pass down into Lana last April in a rented SLK. The roof stayed down. It wasn't even that cold up there, the only snow was on the peaks.
However, I got laughed at in the hotel when I enquired if Stelvio was open.
Incidentally, like you we travelled to Bolzano from Munich via Austria. For some reason that I couldn't fathom (it was a dry sunny day) there was a ridiculously low speed limit (something like 80-90kph) posted on the electronic gantry signs all the way through Austria. Unlike the M25 the locals observed the limit religiously so I didn't take any risks. That unexpected delay added a LOT to the journey time. So you'll just have to make up time on the unrestricted sections between Munich and the border!
However, I got laughed at in the hotel when I enquired if Stelvio was open.
Incidentally, like you we travelled to Bolzano from Munich via Austria. For some reason that I couldn't fathom (it was a dry sunny day) there was a ridiculously low speed limit (something like 80-90kph) posted on the electronic gantry signs all the way through Austria. Unlike the M25 the locals observed the limit religiously so I didn't take any risks. That unexpected delay added a LOT to the journey time. So you'll just have to make up time on the unrestricted sections between Munich and the border!
Edited by gavmobile on Tuesday 29th April 12:42
ScottMc91 said:
Munich to Bolzano: on the main Brenner pass motorway and then at Sterzling leave the motorway and head to Meran using the Jaufen pass (i think that is what it is called at least!) - this route is not particularly high so should be fine for snow.
Last time I made the drive from Obergurgl toVipiteno / Sterzing it took about an hour.
It's not far, but IIRC the longest straight
is about 200 meters.
Snow stacked four meters high at the side
of the road in July, but the road itself
clear.
Brenner Pass by autobahn eight euros.
Suggest try the old road to save a few euros.
300 to 400 miles a day? Easy on the autoroute/whatever the local equivalent is.
But off the autoroute, it's a long day. Aim to set off by 10AM after a leisurely breakfast and land at the next place by 5PM at the latest, this will give you maybe 250 miles in the twisty bits if you don't stop for lunch (yes, I am suggesting 35mph average!).
Sounds like a hell of a thrash to me. I cut my teeth on Staples2Naples2005, then drove to Spain via France with a friend for a holiday last September.
Rouen to Carcassonne, via the Millau Viaduct, 550 miles took 10 hours avoiding Paris but hitting the A10/E05 autoroute between Chartres and Orleans then down to Millau and doubling back via Beziers to the A61/E80 and Carcassonne. It was a hard day's driving with 2 drivers.
The 450 miles the next day took another 10 hours, via the Col de la Quillane then down to Barcelona via the E9, then down to Oliva on the A7/E15. You can make up speed on the motorway, but the 100 miles of the Col de la Quillane and its approaches took 4 hours!
The return trip Oliva to Carcassonne via Andorra wasn't any faster - but again, the scenery was superb! We took it easy across France after that, taking in around 250 miles a day and keeping off the autoroutes. Most enjoyable!
This was in a Montego 1.6, which will go fast enough to draw attention to itself
... All three days hurt, in terms of being sat still in a car for 10 hours at a time. But god! they were good days 
...
Keep to 6 hours shared driving a day, and it will be fun. Much more will cause "road burn" and impact on your enjoyment.
But off the autoroute, it's a long day. Aim to set off by 10AM after a leisurely breakfast and land at the next place by 5PM at the latest, this will give you maybe 250 miles in the twisty bits if you don't stop for lunch (yes, I am suggesting 35mph average!).
Sounds like a hell of a thrash to me. I cut my teeth on Staples2Naples2005, then drove to Spain via France with a friend for a holiday last September.
Rouen to Carcassonne, via the Millau Viaduct, 550 miles took 10 hours avoiding Paris but hitting the A10/E05 autoroute between Chartres and Orleans then down to Millau and doubling back via Beziers to the A61/E80 and Carcassonne. It was a hard day's driving with 2 drivers.
The 450 miles the next day took another 10 hours, via the Col de la Quillane then down to Barcelona via the E9, then down to Oliva on the A7/E15. You can make up speed on the motorway, but the 100 miles of the Col de la Quillane and its approaches took 4 hours!
The return trip Oliva to Carcassonne via Andorra wasn't any faster - but again, the scenery was superb! We took it easy across France after that, taking in around 250 miles a day and keeping off the autoroutes. Most enjoyable!
This was in a Montego 1.6, which will go fast enough to draw attention to itself
... All three days hurt, in terms of being sat still in a car for 10 hours at a time. But god! they were good days ...Keep to 6 hours shared driving a day, and it will be fun. Much more will cause "road burn"
and impact on your enjoyment.thanks again guys for the advice - our estimated driving times are as follows (not counting breaks)
day 1 : Channel Tunnel to Nurburgring 4.5 hours
day 2 : Nurburg to Munich 5.5 hours
day 3 : Munich to Neuschwanstein 1.45 hours
Neuschwantstein to Bolzano (via Meran, Jaufen Pass) 3.5 hours
day 4 : Bolzano to Como (via Mendel Pass) 4.45 hours
day 5 : Como to Monte Carlo (motorway) 3.45 hours
day 6 : Monte Calro to Chamonix (motorway) 4.45 hours
day 7 : Chamonix to Reims (motorway) 5.45 hours
Reims to Channel Tunnel (motorway) 3.5 hours
the only one i was a bit wary of was the journey back to Calais from Chamonix - this will be a long run but we've got all day to do it so can have as many breaks as we need - Reims will be a good stop off i think.
average of 5ish hours a day driving (shared between 2 people)
the plan is to leave just after the rush hour each day.
day 1 : Channel Tunnel to Nurburgring 4.5 hours
day 2 : Nurburg to Munich 5.5 hours
day 3 : Munich to Neuschwanstein 1.45 hours
Neuschwantstein to Bolzano (via Meran, Jaufen Pass) 3.5 hours
day 4 : Bolzano to Como (via Mendel Pass) 4.45 hours
day 5 : Como to Monte Carlo (motorway) 3.45 hours
day 6 : Monte Calro to Chamonix (motorway) 4.45 hours
day 7 : Chamonix to Reims (motorway) 5.45 hours
Reims to Channel Tunnel (motorway) 3.5 hours
the only one i was a bit wary of was the journey back to Calais from Chamonix - this will be a long run but we've got all day to do it so can have as many breaks as we need - Reims will be a good stop off i think.
average of 5ish hours a day driving (shared between 2 people)
the plan is to leave just after the rush hour each day.
ScottMc91 said:
day 4 : Bolzano to Como (via Mendel Pass)
Como town isn't all that and won't give you much of taste of the lake. You need to go up to Bellagio or Mennagio to get the feel of it, but it's slow lakeside roads or the ferry which will blow your timings out of the water.It's your trip but it all looks a bit rushed and will be mostly motorways, which is a crap way to see Europe.
minimoog said:
ScottMc91 said:
day 4 : Bolzano to Como (via Mendel Pass)
Como town isn't all that and won't give you much of taste of the lake. You need to go up to Bellagio or Mennagio to get the feel of it, but it's slow lakeside roads or the ferry which will blow your timings out of the water.It's your trip but it all looks a bit rushed and will be mostly motorways, which is a crap way to see Europe.
the idea of the trip is not really to 'see europe' or i'd never have planned it for such a short time.
was hoping to do something similar to the gumball rally i.e. approx 3000 miles in 8 days, with parties most nights (although we won't be living it up in 5 star hotels every night unfortunately..... well except Monte Carlo where we booked into the Port Palace on the GP circuit!)
i've tried to reduce the amount of motorway miles to a minimum but in order to make the deadlines and still give us time to do things on arrival at the destinations we have to do some - i think the mix is not too bad but i guess i'll find out on friday!
can't wait to go now.
ScottMc91 said:
minimoog said:
ScottMc91 said:
day 4 : Bolzano to Como (via Mendel Pass)
Como town isn't all that and won't give you much of taste of the lake. You need to go up to Bellagio or Mennagio to get the feel of it, but it's slow lakeside roads or the ferry which will blow your timings out of the water.It's your trip but it all looks a bit rushed and will be mostly motorways, which is a crap way to see Europe.
the idea of the trip is not really to 'see europe' or i'd never have planned it for such a short time.
was hoping to do something similar to the gumball rally i.e. approx 3000 miles in 8 days, with parties most nights (although we won't be living it up in 5 star hotels every night unfortunately..... well except Monte Carlo where we booked into the Port Palace on the GP circuit!)
i've tried to reduce the amount of motorway miles to a minimum but in order to make the deadlines and still give us time to do things on arrival at the destinations we have to do some - i think the mix is not too bad but i guess i'll find out on friday!
can't wait to go now.
well we're back - most of the cars included!
had a great time and enjoyed every minute - learned a few lessons from the trip too!
had a great time and enjoyed every minute - learned a few lessons from the trip too!
- european sat nav is a godsend
- don't go to small ski resort towns in the off season (i.e. Bolzano!) and expect them to be busy for nightlife, regardless what you might read in brochures!
- drive more alpine passes - they are awesome! (we did Tonale, Jaufen and Mendola)
- don't underestimate the cost of motorway tolls on the continent
- and also don't think that petrol is that much cheaper over there either!
we were ok with the passes, all of them that we drove on were open - there was a fair bit of snow up at the Jaufen pass but it wasn't lying on the road. Passo Mendola had some small road works but they didn't affect us too much as the traffic was quite quiet.
Going downhill on the Tonale pass was fun - lots of hairpins!
a few miscalculations of routes thanks to sat nav - ended up driving through the centre of Milan instead of around it and also it took us on the motorway to Como instead of round the lake.
Going downhill on the Tonale pass was fun - lots of hairpins!
a few miscalculations of routes thanks to sat nav - ended up driving through the centre of Milan instead of around it and also it took us on the motorway to Como instead of round the lake.
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