Why is the F1 box not a "proper" auto box?
Discussion
kryten22uk said:
According to the 430 instructions manual, the F1 box is not a proper automatic gearbox. It goes on to say that you shouldnt use "auto" button unless really necessary.
What is the difference between a full-on auto box and the F1 system?
Can't answer your question directly however - the manual is correct in that you should use Auto mode if possible as it tries to make changes smoother by sliping the clutch more, hence you will get more wear.What is the difference between a full-on auto box and the F1 system?
sjwb said:
Simply put:
Automatic is linked to the engine via a fluid link - torque converter, whereas the F1 has a clutch (mechanical link).
There are of course differences in the transmission as well.
Ah. So what is the reason for a mechanical link as opposed to fluid link? does fluid one sap power, and hence mechanical preferable on performance cars?Automatic is linked to the engine via a fluid link - torque converter, whereas the F1 has a clutch (mechanical link).
There are of course differences in the transmission as well.
kryten22uk said:
sjwb said:
Simply put:
Automatic is linked to the engine via a fluid link - torque converter, whereas the F1 has a clutch (mechanical link).
There are of course differences in the transmission as well.
Ah. So what is the reason for a mechanical link as opposed to fluid link? does fluid one sap power, and hence mechanical preferable on performance cars?Automatic is linked to the engine via a fluid link - torque converter, whereas the F1 has a clutch (mechanical link).
There are of course differences in the transmission as well.
If you want to put a Ferrari into automatic mode, you are driving the wrong car. There's plenty of threads re manual v F1 shift in a Ferrari, I'll not cover old ground.
A
kryten22uk said:
sjwb said:
Simply put:
Automatic is linked to the engine via a fluid link - torque converter, whereas the F1 has a clutch (mechanical link).
There are of course differences in the transmission as well.
Ah. So what is the reason for a mechanical link as opposed to fluid link? does fluid one sap power, and hence mechanical preferable on performance cars?Automatic is linked to the engine via a fluid link - torque converter, whereas the F1 has a clutch (mechanical link).
There are of course differences in the transmission as well.
I know some autoboxes like the one in Krytens previous XKR only use the torque converter to take off in 1st/2nd Gear below 2k revs then it goes into a bypass mode(don't know how) in theory reducing the power sapping effect of the torque converter. There was a great article in Evo either lsat month or the month before all about semi-auto's and the latest gen proper auto's. It was a great read.
John.
John.
In very simple terms, the Ferrari F1 and Lambo e-gear are robotised manuals where the cars use the same gearbox as the manual and replace the clutch pedal and gearlever with hrdraulic actuators. Hence it has teh same dry clutch as the manual car.
When you pull a paddle it opens the clutch, changes gear and re-engages the clutch, just like you would in a manual only faster.
An auto box has a torque converter and a planetary gearbox. There is no clutch as such and thus not a total loss of power as the gear is changed but have some fluidity in the drivetrain.
Hence true autos tend to be smother but less sporty.
What you really want is a DSG box which manage to be sporty as they are direct drive with no fluidity, but can change so fast you don't get the lapse in power transmission you get with an ATM.
But you can't have that because Ferrari and Lambo, or more specificaly Magnetti Marelli who make the system for both of them and the Aston Vanquish, have invested in ATMs and can't or wont invest in a DSG box.
Automating an existing box is relatively cheap, remove gearstick, bolt on actuators, buy electronics from Magnetti Marelli, of you go.
Developing a DSG box which would be a completely new design, isn't.
When you pull a paddle it opens the clutch, changes gear and re-engages the clutch, just like you would in a manual only faster.
An auto box has a torque converter and a planetary gearbox. There is no clutch as such and thus not a total loss of power as the gear is changed but have some fluidity in the drivetrain.
Hence true autos tend to be smother but less sporty.
What you really want is a DSG box which manage to be sporty as they are direct drive with no fluidity, but can change so fast you don't get the lapse in power transmission you get with an ATM.
But you can't have that because Ferrari and Lambo, or more specificaly Magnetti Marelli who make the system for both of them and the Aston Vanquish, have invested in ATMs and can't or wont invest in a DSG box.
Automating an existing box is relatively cheap, remove gearstick, bolt on actuators, buy electronics from Magnetti Marelli, of you go.
Developing a DSG box which would be a completely new design, isn't.
In very simple terms, the Ferrari F1 and Lambo e-gear are robotised manuals where the cars use the same gearbox as the manual and replace the clutch pedal and gearlever with hrdraulic actuators. Hence it has the same dry clutch as the manual car.
When you pull a paddle it opens the clutch, changes gear and re-engages the clutch, just like you would with foot and hand in a manual, only faster.
An auto box has a torque converter and a planetary gearbox. There is no clutch as such and thus not a total loss of power as the gear is changed but have some fluidity in the drivetrain.
Hence true autos tend to be smother but less sporty.
What you really want is a DSG box which manage to be sporty as they are direct drive with no fluidity, but can change so fast you don't get the lapse in power transmission you get with an ATM.
But you can't have that because Ferrari and Lambo, or more specificaly Magnetti Marelli who make the system for both of them and the Aston Vanquish, have invested in ATMs and can't or wont invest in a DSG box.
Automating an existing box is relatively cheap, remove gearstick, bolt on actuators, buy electronics from Magnetti Marelli, of you go.
Developing a DSG box which would be a completely new design, isn't.
When you pull a paddle it opens the clutch, changes gear and re-engages the clutch, just like you would with foot and hand in a manual, only faster.
An auto box has a torque converter and a planetary gearbox. There is no clutch as such and thus not a total loss of power as the gear is changed but have some fluidity in the drivetrain.
Hence true autos tend to be smother but less sporty.
What you really want is a DSG box which manage to be sporty as they are direct drive with no fluidity, but can change so fast you don't get the lapse in power transmission you get with an ATM.
But you can't have that because Ferrari and Lambo, or more specificaly Magnetti Marelli who make the system for both of them and the Aston Vanquish, have invested in ATMs and can't or wont invest in a DSG box.
Automating an existing box is relatively cheap, remove gearstick, bolt on actuators, buy electronics from Magnetti Marelli, of you go.
Developing a DSG box which would be a completely new design, isn't.
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