Need you help please.
Discussion
I went to start the Griff this morning and the dreaded happened - would not turn over due to a flat battery? May I add that I was genuinely taken aback as this is the first time in three years that the car has failed.
The battery is 2.5 years old, and a Accumate is used to top it up in between drives. Battery has been faultless, and cranks the engine nice'n rapid.
This week, with the great weather about, I drove the Griff on a 200 mile round trip and parked up Weds pm. I did not connect the Accumate after the trip and this morning I tried to start, but no joy.
Fuel pump primed, engine turned half a turn, but insufficient power to start. Second attempt I could not hear the fuel pump priming, and engine did not turn. Lights all off, radio not used in ages (prefer the V8!).
Lights on the dash are on, and from memory, the dash lights did not dim/die when I turned the ignition key (need to double check that though).
I am not techy and have no electrical tools - what I will do tonight is get the bible out and maybe check for earth connectons/loose wires?
Any pointers would be greatly appreciated before I hand the car over to a workshop.
Many thanks
Henk
The battery is 2.5 years old, and a Accumate is used to top it up in between drives. Battery has been faultless, and cranks the engine nice'n rapid.
This week, with the great weather about, I drove the Griff on a 200 mile round trip and parked up Weds pm. I did not connect the Accumate after the trip and this morning I tried to start, but no joy.
Fuel pump primed, engine turned half a turn, but insufficient power to start. Second attempt I could not hear the fuel pump priming, and engine did not turn. Lights all off, radio not used in ages (prefer the V8!).
Lights on the dash are on, and from memory, the dash lights did not dim/die when I turned the ignition key (need to double check that though).
I am not techy and have no electrical tools - what I will do tonight is get the bible out and maybe check for earth connectons/loose wires?
Any pointers would be greatly appreciated before I hand the car over to a workshop.
Many thanks
Henk
You are going to be a bit challenged to sort this without some tools and ideally a meter to measure the battery voltage. It may be better to get someone to sort it for you. However :-
The starter motor is connected by one thick red cable directly to the battery (via a large blade fuse), this supply should always be live. Also connected to the starter is a thinner cable which operates the starter solenoid, this is what engages when you turn the key. If the solenoid is not pulling in (this is a common problem but not the fault of the solenoid) the motor will not engage at all, this is often due to a fault in the immobiliser circuit and before failing completely is often intermittent. If the solenoid is pulling in but the starter cranks the engine slowly this is a quite different fault and suggests a poor connection somewhere along the way in the thick wire, a failed battery or starter motor.
A rather imprecise way of checking the battery if you have no meter is to switch on the headlights and see if they look reasonably bright, if they do then chances are that there is at least some charge present and the battery connections are reasonably good.
You suggest that at one attempt the fuel pump was not priming in addition to the starter not operating. As these are separate systems this rather suggests that you have not managed to deactivate the immobiliser. As you have had a flat battery recently it may be worth disconnecting it (the battery that is) for a few seconds and then reconnecting it, it may be that the alarm / immobiliser has become confused and got out of sync with your button pressing. When you reconnect the battery you will need to cycle the lock un lock from the keyfob to get it working again.
To be more helpful I think we need to know :-
Does the fuel pump prime or not ?
Does the engine attempt to crank at all ?
If the engine cranks does it crank slowly ?
Do the headlights look bright ?
What voltage does the dashboard voltmeter show with the headlights on ?
The starter motor is connected by one thick red cable directly to the battery (via a large blade fuse), this supply should always be live. Also connected to the starter is a thinner cable which operates the starter solenoid, this is what engages when you turn the key. If the solenoid is not pulling in (this is a common problem but not the fault of the solenoid) the motor will not engage at all, this is often due to a fault in the immobiliser circuit and before failing completely is often intermittent. If the solenoid is pulling in but the starter cranks the engine slowly this is a quite different fault and suggests a poor connection somewhere along the way in the thick wire, a failed battery or starter motor.
A rather imprecise way of checking the battery if you have no meter is to switch on the headlights and see if they look reasonably bright, if they do then chances are that there is at least some charge present and the battery connections are reasonably good.
You suggest that at one attempt the fuel pump was not priming in addition to the starter not operating. As these are separate systems this rather suggests that you have not managed to deactivate the immobiliser. As you have had a flat battery recently it may be worth disconnecting it (the battery that is) for a few seconds and then reconnecting it, it may be that the alarm / immobiliser has become confused and got out of sync with your button pressing. When you reconnect the battery you will need to cycle the lock un lock from the keyfob to get it working again.
To be more helpful I think we need to know :-
Does the fuel pump prime or not ?
Does the engine attempt to crank at all ?
If the engine cranks does it crank slowly ?
Do the headlights look bright ?
What voltage does the dashboard voltmeter show with the headlights on ?
Thanks Steve!,
The fuel pump primed the first time round, and the engine turned for perhaps a second and then stopped - it turned very very slowly I might add. Stumped as I was, I sat back, turned the ignition off, and then back on - and clearly saw lights on the dash as I usually would.
At the second attempt, the fuel pump did not prime, and the engine did not even attempt to move. If I remember correctly, the lights on the dash stayed on despite me turning the ignition key to start - as I said I need to go and check this. In the past, when I have had battery issues on other cars, the dash lights used to dim when I turned the key.
I did not even look at the voltage meter.
I connected the Accumate when I left home. I will check as you suggested and post later.
Thanks very much
H
The fuel pump primed the first time round, and the engine turned for perhaps a second and then stopped - it turned very very slowly I might add. Stumped as I was, I sat back, turned the ignition off, and then back on - and clearly saw lights on the dash as I usually would.
At the second attempt, the fuel pump did not prime, and the engine did not even attempt to move. If I remember correctly, the lights on the dash stayed on despite me turning the ignition key to start - as I said I need to go and check this. In the past, when I have had battery issues on other cars, the dash lights used to dim when I turned the key.
I did not even look at the voltage meter.
I connected the Accumate when I left home. I will check as you suggested and post later.
Thanks very much
H
DarkMatter said:
coetzeeh said:
Second attempt I could not hear the fuel pump priming, and engine did not turn.
I presume that for this second attempt you had pressed the immobiliser button to disengage it before turning the key?I will double check when I get home thanks.
OK, update,
Had the Accumate on since 9am. I turned on the ignition and the voltmeter showed 12v - in the past I used to see just ovet 13v when fully charged.
Turned the ignition and the same symptoms as this morning - fuel pump primes, half a turn, voltmeter down to 10v, then nothing.
Second attempt, immobiliser deactivated, fuel pump not priming, engine would not turn at all. Voltmeter showing just over 9v.
Lights do come on, but do not look bright, even with the battery at 9v -(then again - they were never bright in the first place were they?)
My next door neighbour is an electrician - I will grovel and ask for help with his meters.
Thanks
H
Had the Accumate on since 9am. I turned on the ignition and the voltmeter showed 12v - in the past I used to see just ovet 13v when fully charged.
Turned the ignition and the same symptoms as this morning - fuel pump primes, half a turn, voltmeter down to 10v, then nothing.
Second attempt, immobiliser deactivated, fuel pump not priming, engine would not turn at all. Voltmeter showing just over 9v.
Lights do come on, but do not look bright, even with the battery at 9v -(then again - they were never bright in the first place were they?)
My next door neighbour is an electrician - I will grovel and ask for help with his meters.
Thanks
H
It's possible that your battery has died. Mine went on a garage forecourt (very embarrising).
Unlocked the door, put key in ignition and turned it over, then all the dash lights went off and strange things started happening. The alarm would arm itself but wouldn't disarm itself sometimes. Sometime the lights would come on sometimes not.
In the end I called the RAC who gave me a jump start (but it was very reluctant to start). Luckily I wasn't far from home and the guy followed me there.
I tried to recharge the battery but it was no good despite an overnoght charge it was the same thing in the morning. Replaced it and have not had a problem since
Unlocked the door, put key in ignition and turned it over, then all the dash lights went off and strange things started happening. The alarm would arm itself but wouldn't disarm itself sometimes. Sometime the lights would come on sometimes not.
In the end I called the RAC who gave me a jump start (but it was very reluctant to start). Luckily I wasn't far from home and the guy followed me there.
I tried to recharge the battery but it was no good despite an overnoght charge it was the same thing in the morning. Replaced it and have not had a problem since
coetzeeh said:
OK, update,
Had the Accumate on since 9am. I turned on the ignition and the voltmeter showed 12v - in the past I used to see just ovet 13v when fully charged.
Turned the ignition and the same symptoms as this morning - fuel pump primes, half a turn, voltmeter down to 10v, then nothing.
Second attempt, immobiliser deactivated, fuel pump not priming, engine would not turn at all. Voltmeter showing just over 9v.
Lights do come on, but do not look bright, even with the battery at 9v -(then again - they were never bright in the first place were they?)
My next door neighbour is an electrician - I will grovel and ask for help with his meters.
Don't waste your time go to halfords and buy one it's knackered.
Keep the receipt and you won't need to buy another under warrenty.
Thanks
H
Had the Accumate on since 9am. I turned on the ignition and the voltmeter showed 12v - in the past I used to see just ovet 13v when fully charged.
Turned the ignition and the same symptoms as this morning - fuel pump primes, half a turn, voltmeter down to 10v, then nothing.
Second attempt, immobiliser deactivated, fuel pump not priming, engine would not turn at all. Voltmeter showing just over 9v.
Lights do come on, but do not look bright, even with the battery at 9v -(then again - they were never bright in the first place were they?)
My next door neighbour is an electrician - I will grovel and ask for help with his meters.
Don't waste your time go to halfords and buy one it's knackered.
Keep the receipt and you won't need to buy another under warrenty.
Thanks
H
Had the Accumate connected overnight, and showed battery fully charged by 11am.
Ignition on, pump primes and the engine turns over very slowly and then starts!
I had the car idling at 1500rpm for about 3 minutes. Switched off and then started the car, again, turned over very very slowly and starts.
Who votes for new battery?
Ignition on, pump primes and the engine turns over very slowly and then starts!
I had the car idling at 1500rpm for about 3 minutes. Switched off and then started the car, again, turned over very very slowly and starts.
Who votes for new battery?
A trickle charger will struggle to fully charge a flat battery overnight, but yes I vote for a new battery, but first check that the terminal connections are good and tight. If you do have a high resistance connection it will become quite hot when attempting to crank the engine and probably smell as well.
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