Buying a new Esprit
Buying a new Esprit
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Psylence

Original Poster:

3 posts

272 months

Monday 18th August 2003
quotequote all
I am seriously considering the purchase of a "new" Esprit V8 from a local dealer.. but I still have some questions that are unanswered even after copious amounts of reading on espritfactfile and lotusespritworld.
First, the cars in question: One is a 2001, the other a 2002. Both are brand new, less than 100 miles. Full warranty on either. With the fears around about "garage queen" cars, would anyone here be hesitant about buying one of these 2 vehicles?

Everyone says that these cars need more maintenance, but no one is specific about what that is. Is it normal maintenance? Is it special magical "Lotus Crystals" that only a dealer can install or some ridiculous crap like that? Does anyone have a list of maintenance intervals, or what can go wrong and when? Do Shop/service manuals exist for this car? Am I the only person who wants to do their own maintenance on a V8?
Advice, comments, recommendations that I get my head examined, are all appreciated!

cnh1990

3,035 posts

287 months

Monday 18th August 2003
quotequote all
Psylence said:
Does anyone have a list of maintenance intervals, or what can go wrong and when? Do Shop/service manuals exist for this car? Am I the only person who wants to do their own maintenance on a V8?
Advice, comments, recommendations that I get my head examined, are all appreciated!


Either car would be fine, They are for all intents new cars as long as they were not left to the elements.

Service is somewhat diferent for the V8's than mine and I would suspect them to be a bit more reliable than my 13 y/o car.

Service manuals do exist for the car.

A lot of the cars are under warranty so many do not need to work on their own cars. Even so with the cost of a late model car many choose not to for one reason or another as most of the hobby type DYI person goes for the 4 cyl at this point.

Very few people have the hands V8 repair experience of the 4 cyl. people. There are exceptions and the ones who do work on the V8 tend to very good as it would be terrible to make a mistake that would turn very costly with such a new car. People who do oil changes and such are a bit more common.

More DYI people are going start buying V8's as the prices drop a bit and stabilize. I maybe going the V8 or the S4s route in the near future. I still tend to favor the familiar 4 cyl. Although if the right deal came along on a V8 I would go that way.

Good luck on your future purchase,
Calvin 90 SE

kmaier

490 posts

294 months

Tuesday 19th August 2003
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I bought a 2000 V8 new back in 2001 with full warranty, etc. and I do the bulk of maintenance myself, so I can give you some insight and some things to consider.

First, if you plan on doing your own maintenance, you'll need some sort of lift, if you don't have one or have access to one, forget about doing your own maintenance. I bought a Norco Mid-Rise lift and have been very happy with it. Now with that out of the way....

Buy a workshop manual from your local dealer as it's well worth the price and spend lots of time reading it. Lotus recommends an "A" Service every 6000 miles and a "B" Service every 18000 miles, neither are that difficult and are outlined in the manual. I do the "A" Service (and more) every 4000 miles and have it up on the lift for basic checks every 2000 miles. I also change gearbox lube when I do the engine oil/filter (every 4000 miles) and swap all fluids every 8000 miles, or about every 6 and 12 months.

Some good news, LCU covers cambelt services for free in the US for 8 years or 80K miles at intervals of 12K miles or 18 months, plus a belt replacement at 36K miles.

Things I have found that are issues on the V8 are:

- Exhaust systems are poor quality (mine is on it's 4th) but the newer center exhaust from 2002/2003 (US only) may be better.

- Cooling fans have failed, 2 so far. They are also inadequate and in hot Florida weather around town driving tends to result in engine temperature creep.

- Radiator leaked

- AC compressor O-rings tend to leak, then again my compressor leaked oil out the front and fried itself. And yes, the O-rings are now leaking on the new compressor.

- Water Pump came loose and dumped coolant rapidly (good part is I had only pulled out of the garage)

- Shifter cables may need adjustment within 3000 miles (initial stretch?)

- My gearbox went out at 14K miles (something defective internally). But don't consider this a normal thing. They are a bit fragile (Renault sourced) and need a tender touch.

- Little stuff too like:
seatbelt latch popped open
LCD odometer display freeks out once in a while now
left heat shield has cracked and buzzes now (for once not the exhaust system)
lower rear suspension arm has sheared off outer lip of bushings twice now
Battery went dead inside of 2 months of ownership
right rear radius arm came loose and all of the toe-adjustment shims fell out

You may also need to reset the ECM at some point as they tend to get confused once in a while and don't like to idle properly. They are also sensitive to the type gasoline you use, ie, SuperShell always gives me a "check engine" lamp while Chevron Supreme runs great.

Lastly, I strongly suggest that you spend some serious time underneath and make sure that everything is tight which includes all chassis bolts, suspension bolts, drivetrain mounting bolts, the bolts that mount the body to the frame as they loosen a bit from new which results in lots of squeaks, etc. And from my own service notes, check the water pump mounting bolts... it only takes 15 minutes and well worth it. Also be certain to check all coolant hose clamps, I fought some very intermittant coolant leaks initially which turned out to be "slightly" lose hose clamps. As the plumbing is alloy, it expands and contracts more than the cast and brass parts on normal cars.

Now, please don't take this as a big negative. Realize that each car is hand-built and that there are many sourced parts (like everything that failed above) but even I don't consider some of my bad luck as the norm. Also note that LCU has been excellent at handling all warranty issues without any problem. With my 2 year warranty up in 2 months and almost 21K miles on the car... I'm down to nothing more than leaky O-rings on the AC compressor and a cracked heatshield on the left (engine) bank. Oh yea, I need tires too.

Driving the Lotus makes it all worthwhile however. I would still recommend buying a V8, but you need to be willing to work thru some problems, invest in some materials (manuals, lift, etc.) and get dirty by familiarizing yourself with the underside of the car as well.

Finally, forget the garage queen style, just drive it. Hope this helps... just my $0.02.

Regards, KM
2000 V8

Psylence

Original Poster:

3 posts

272 months

Tuesday 19th August 2003
quotequote all
KM,

Thanks for all of the information; that is exactly the sort of thing I need to hear.
It does raise a few more questions though, if you don't mind
Exhaust system: Any idea why it fails? Is it a design flaw? Exceptionally poor materials? Aftermarket fix, after warranty perhaps?
The cooling fans and some of the other electrical gremlins have me a little concerned. Does the car have a shady electrical system in general? I can understand the fans being weak and ineffective, but I wouldn't expect them to die outright. Any idea if the fans themselves are off the shelf from another company? That would open up the possibility of a higher flowing aluminum alternative.
AC Compressor: Can you cheap out and slather on some gasket sealer?

Other than that, it doesn't sound bad at all. Regular fluid changes, and every couple months a Saturday morning spent tightening things down underneath the car. Doesn't sound bad at all.. can I cheat and use loctite?

Don't worry, it'll never be a garage queen. As long as there's no snow, it's fair game for the Lotus.

kmaier

490 posts

294 months

Tuesday 19th August 2003
quotequote all
Hi Psylence,

The exhaust system fails due to poor quality control. The materials are fine (but stainless should have been used) and is made by Arvin, probably the world's largest manufacturer. Problem is, the exhaust pipes are not properly formed and as a result are clamped into position and then braces are welded on to hold the pipes in place, creating stress welds. It inevitably starts to crack at the weld points for the braces and will eventually fall off (the exhaust pipes). Fortunately, there are some alternatives from Tubi, MotoConcepts, PUK and others.

I don't consider the V8 to have any electrical gremlins, however, the wiring is "thin" to help keep weight down, but the problem with the cooling fans seems to be quality. They are simple cheap sleeved bearing units sourced from Ford (and have the Ford sticker on them). My radiator also started to seep on the end tank solder seam, hence poor workmanship. It was a simple fix, but it took over 5 hours to get out and another 5 to put back. My plan is to replace the entire fan setup (3 fans and shroud) with a trio of Spal fans and add two smaller ones for the oil coolers and some additional logic to help with temperature stability. I am also looking at a possible radiator replacement as I feel it's right on the edge of capacity.

As for the AC components... they are good ones, mostly sourced from Harrison (Delphi). It would appear that the dual condensors in the front are parallel flow as well. I just feel the design of attaching the pipes via a single heavy block held in place by one undersized cap bolt was stupid, but not a Lotus problem. Unfortunately it's in a bear of place to work on. I'm still debating on dealer warranty service versus doing this myself. I would avoid sealants and the like and would prefer to get new O-rings and get them properly set.

As for chassis tightening, you'll find that the bulk of hardware used is self-locking nuts. The manual calls for specific loctite products in certain areas, but due to the vibration induced from the single-plane crank and the overall stiffness of the chassis/body combination, you're bound to get some loosening. So I would still prefer to just check/tighten every 2000 miles or so. Also, never use the word "cheat" when referring to maintenance on the Lotus as the car will haunt you for it ;-)

Overall, I don't find working on the car difficult, a bit more challenging than other vehicles and due to construction, certain tasks require a large sequence of events to get ot the point where you can perform that otherwise simple task (like the radiator). All in all, it's a great car and I'd buy it again in a heartbeat. I would also give Kudos to the guys at LCU, Dave Simkin, Clyde Sheppard and others (here in the US) and Dave Massey at Lotus Cars UK for their excellent support and numerous emails and phonecalls during the past 2 years. Again, hope this helps... and best of luck in pursuing your purchase.

Regards, KM
2000 V8

FJ40

95 posts

285 months

Tuesday 19th August 2003
quotequote all
I also work on my V8 and love it. It is no harder to work on than any other car except that as a mid engine the working space is very tight. This tends to make simple repairs longer simply because you have to get to the item to change.

A quick note for KM, I have a file on the Esprit yahoo groups file area that are instructions to replace the O rings on the AC unit. It takes a long time to get to it.

I have had my 97 for one year and 5K (10K to 15K) miles with fewer problems than KM. No real problems except the AC had a tube that broke but the 98 and newer have a stronger tube. The manuals are OK and the help from Lotus is good as well as the owner networks. You will spend less on this car that any other exotic for repairs and maintenance. It is killer to check out the engineering on the car when you work on it. I love to get to know it better and working on it is one way to do that.

Any car that is designed to push the engineering limits is going to have some extra care needed but driving the Esprit makes that worthwhile. I have tracked my car a few times and it is a very solid car with amazing performance and tougher than most think.

Enjoy the car!

Dan L
97 Yellow USA

Eddie0909

3 posts

279 months

Tuesday 19th August 2003
quotequote all
KMaier

You've scared me to death !!! All those problems on a new car ?

I am looking at a Lotus also (perhaps a 2003/03 model), but after reading about your experience, I may reconsider.

Eddie

kmaier

490 posts

294 months

Tuesday 19th August 2003
quotequote all
Eddie0909 said:
KMaier

You've scared me to death !!! All those problems on a new car ?

I am looking at a Lotus also (perhaps a 2003/03 model), but after reading about your experience, I may reconsider.

Eddie


Sorry Eddie, that was not my intent. Granted, you will have some problems but I seriously doubt you will do as bad as I have as it's not the norm. Even I believe that.

Consider the fact there are but a handful of bits which could do with some upgrading. Doing these could easily make the V8 exceptionally reliable. I just wanted to paint a fair picture of things.

I hope you reconsider your decision. The Esprit V8 is a well sorted car and should last a good long time with proper maintenance. There are a few areas which can use some improvement and these are not difficult to address nor are they that expensive (all things being relative). To obtain a similar level of overall performance and driver experience you will have spend a great deal more for something else that ultimately will be more expensive to maintain and run.

Regards, KM
2000 V8

Khoa Bui

14 posts

275 months

Wednesday 20th August 2003
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Hi,
I purchased a 2000 V8 new in the year 2000 from an authorized USA Lotus dealer. So far had no problem whatsoever except only for engine check light which started with lower grade super unleaded gasoline and went away with 76 or Chevron super unleaded. Great car and love every minute driving it !
Regards,
Khoa

cnh1990

3,035 posts

287 months

Wednesday 20th August 2003
quotequote all
Eddie0909 said:
KMaier

You've scared me to death !!! All those problems on a new car ?

I am looking at a Lotus also (perhaps a 2003/03 model), but after reading about your experience, I may reconsider.

Eddie


KMaier problems were a bit unusal from the rest of the V8's that people I know own.

He does know quite about them and am glad he works on his own cars. If I ever move up I know I will be asking him and FJ40 a lot of questions.

Plus with the year you are going for good chance that it is still under warranty and there appears more people well versed in proceedures on the car to ask for advice.

Calvin

FJ40

95 posts

285 months

Wednesday 20th August 2003
quotequote all
Eddie,

Go for it! I know several V8 owners in the San Francisco area and seldom does anyone ever have a problem. Most drive them hard and some even track their cars. Keep in mind you are not buying a Toyota with the best reliability record but the Esprit has been sorted out and for an exotic car is very trouble free.

Another thing to keep in mind is that the V8 is a very drivable car with a high level of comfort for the performance it offers. I have no worries taking it to work or out of town. In addition several of the parts for the Lotus are supplied by other manufactures at reasonable cost and with good availability. For example the AC is all GM or generic parts and when I repaired mine I went to the local parts place for the AC compressor “O” rings. Then I had the FORD dealer charge the AC Freon in a few hours with not one question from the mechanic. He did ask for a ride which I gave him gladly.

If you are going to get an exotic car the Esprit is probably one of the best sorted out of the bunch.

After you purchase it and drive it you won’t care anyway and would sell your wife to buy gas to drive it!

Dan L.
97 Esprit
Yellow USA



Eddie0909 said:
KMaier

You've scared me to death !!! All those problems on a new car ?

I am looking at a Lotus also (perhaps a 2003/03 model), but after reading about your experience, I may reconsider.

Eddie

British Bulldog

9 posts

272 months

Saturday 23rd August 2003
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Hi Folks, I am a cyber chat virgin and totally new to this game. Cars I am just fine with but computer chat is slightly tricky, so I hope this goes to the right place.
Anyway Cars, well I've had a few some Great! some not so great. Aston Martin, Lamborghini, Ferrari, Lotus & even a MCC Smart car.
I am a real hands on person, I maintain all of My cars Myself for relaxation. At the moment I am lucky enough to have an MCC Smart car (Great Car!) a Lamborghini and 3 Lotus cars one of which is a Esprit V8 GT(An Awesome Car!!). The Esprit V8 GT has been brilliant for all of its 30,000 miles, its been cheap to service and very reliable, I do however agree with the other Gentleman who said the exhaust boxes can crack, that has happened to mine twice. However if you know somebody who can weld it for you its fixed very cheaply and quickly. Apart from this little hiccup I have not had to lay a spanner on the car, which has amazed Me because it does get a bit of a THRASHING!!
So don't be put off the V8 Esprit it is a truely Great car, it makes my Lamborghini eat its dust. The only real problem however will lay with You!
Why?
Because while you will set off on your little Sunday morning jaunt down to the shops at a fairly sensible speed. The Esprit will have other ideas, You see it's Mission in life is to pin You to the back of your seat and Headbutt the horizon. So hang on this is where the fun starts!!!

LOTUSUSA1

37 posts

272 months

Sunday 24th August 2003
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nice to be rich...what do you do for a living. You don't have to answer that.

British Bulldog

9 posts

272 months

Sunday 24th August 2003
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Hi there! I'm not rich, I'm just a sad petrolhead who's nuts on just about anything with an engine. Over the years I have bought various unloved cars with good prospects at bargain basement prices and put alot of spare time into them. I then sell them at a good profit and slowly over the years I have built up the cars I am lucky enough to have today. But it is done on a budget and servicing the cars myself saves a fortune eg. the Lamborghini!! But the great thing about the Lotus Esprit is that even main dealer servicing is affordable, that coupled with the cars good relyability makes it an excellent prospect. As for the performance its in another world, Lotus Time feels like life speeded up while the rest of the world seems like its in Slow Motion. I do think that Lotuses are the best motring fun I have ever had providing that the roads are challenging to drive, and the cars have such a forgiving nature that when an Ordinary Bloke like Me goes screaming into a corner and overcooks it, I still come out of it looking like Mario Andretti!!
So if anyone out there is in the market for one of these Lotuses I think you should go for it You only live once!! Do make sure you get it properly checked out though, look first for accident damage check all the body work for signs of repainting if there is repaint work ask yourself why. I always assume that any car I look at has been Stuffed until I can prove to Myself otherwise. I do think though that if you are not sure what to look for, employ a specialist to check the car out for you before you close the deal. Its a small price to pay and that way you have peace of mind. Good Luck and All The Best!