Insurance Premium Tax & Advanced Drivers
Discussion
Hi!
I've suggested this in another thread but not many people picked up on it. I've decided to start a dedicated thread for it as I feel it requires some discussion.
Currently, there is no incentive for people to become advanced drivers. The discounts that are available, generally don't make much difference as the companies that offer them, tend to have higher initial premiums anyway.
I think we need to find ways of encouraging people (especially young people) to become advanced drives.
One possible way would be to increase Insurance Premium Tax for non-advanced drivers to, say, 10% of the policy value and scrap it completely for advanced drivers.
If someone is paying >£1k for car insurance then it will certainly be in their interests financially to pass an advanced test.
Would it work?
I've suggested this in another thread but not many people picked up on it. I've decided to start a dedicated thread for it as I feel it requires some discussion.
Currently, there is no incentive for people to become advanced drivers. The discounts that are available, generally don't make much difference as the companies that offer them, tend to have higher initial premiums anyway.
I think we need to find ways of encouraging people (especially young people) to become advanced drives.
One possible way would be to increase Insurance Premium Tax for non-advanced drivers to, say, 10% of the policy value and scrap it completely for advanced drivers.
If someone is paying >£1k for car insurance then it will certainly be in their interests financially to pass an advanced test.
Would it work?
It could work. IAM Select quoted me the cheapest insurance ever for my Porsche. Nearly £100 cheaper than the nearest rival.
Unfortunately they absolutely will not cover track-days and so I paid £250 more to get a policy that specifically states PCGB track days are OK.
Elephant also offer a discount for an IAM Full Member - I assume Rospa's Advanced Certificate would do as well...
It may even happen now that the DSA accredit the IAM Test as a "proper" driving qualification...(although it doesn't go on your Driving Licence which I feel it should...)
Unfortunately they absolutely will not cover track-days and so I paid £250 more to get a policy that specifically states PCGB track days are OK.
Elephant also offer a discount for an IAM Full Member - I assume Rospa's Advanced Certificate would do as well...
It may even happen now that the DSA accredit the IAM Test as a "proper" driving qualification...(although it doesn't go on your Driving Licence which I feel it should...)
I think some of the 'advanced' lot need to look at their priorities.
I had a minibus test with an advanced motorist. He seemed much more keen on my clutch control and the way I let the handbrake click on the ratchet than my observation skills.
I've never tried Rospa, but it's only because I've never got a second to myself these days.
I had a minibus test with an advanced motorist. He seemed much more keen on my clutch control and the way I let the handbrake click on the ratchet than my observation skills.
I've never tried Rospa, but it's only because I've never got a second to myself these days.
PetrolTed said:
A clearer message could be sent by abolishing road tax for advanced drivers.
Good one Ted!
Like they'd EVER give up a source of revenue.
More like this government to force the insurance industry to take a hit to its profits by requiring them to ensure safer drivers for les.
PetrolTed
I think you misunderstand. IPT is added to your premium automatically. You would still shop around for the cheapest quote and then when you get it, state you have an IPT exemption certificate (which you would need to show as proof)
This would mean that no matter who gave you the cheapest quote you would still get a bit moer off due to the IPT exemption.
I think you misunderstand. IPT is added to your premium automatically. You would still shop around for the cheapest quote and then when you get it, state you have an IPT exemption certificate (which you would need to show as proof)
This would mean that no matter who gave you the cheapest quote you would still get a bit moer off due to the IPT exemption.
My motivation was that I felt that my driving could be improved so I took an advanced course with John Cave. Smoothness and safety whilst still being able to enjoy myself were my main criteria - I was worried about having an accident after purchase of Porsche and I have a young son to consider.
I am now practicing my driving technique and reading roadcraft and highway code and will shortly be taking the RoSPA test with a view to getting a high grade pass (!)
I agree that Rospa is the only way to go due to the re-test element and my experience/perception of the IAM - coffin dodging superior beings.
I do wish that my insurance would recognise it but i do not hold my breath - this would kill me quicker than poor driving!
BTW I enjoy my driving much more and am not stressed after journeys now.
Cheers
Paul
I am now practicing my driving technique and reading roadcraft and highway code and will shortly be taking the RoSPA test with a view to getting a high grade pass (!)
I agree that Rospa is the only way to go due to the re-test element and my experience/perception of the IAM - coffin dodging superior beings.
I do wish that my insurance would recognise it but i do not hold my breath - this would kill me quicker than poor driving!
BTW I enjoy my driving much more and am not stressed after journeys now.
Cheers
Paul
_Al_ said:
I think some of the 'advanced' lot need to look at their priorities.
I can agree with that. Many of the members in the IAM have somewhat blinkered views on what is good and what is not with respect to 'Advanced Driving'. Personally I take everything I can learn from all forms of driving and add it into my skillset as often as possible. IAM/Rospa is merely a start.
_Al_ said:
I had a minibus test with an advanced motorist. He seemed much more keen on my clutch control and the way I let the handbrake click on the ratchet than my observation skills.
Advanced Driving contains a reasonable measure of "finesse" stuff. For instance the ratchet on the handbrake. Its not unsafe - its just mechanically unsympathetic and a bit annoying. If that was all you were being pulled up on you should be very pleased with yourself indeed...
_Al_ said:
I've never tried Rospa, but it's only because I've never got a second to myself these days.
ROSPA/IAM doesn't matter in the first instance. Either one will do. By repute (we have Rospa passes in our IAM group) an IAM pass is equivalent to a Rospa Silver. A Rospa Gold requires a higher standard of driving again and as rospa points out you need a retest every three years to retain membership. The IAM offers Driving Assessments - but these do not affect your membership.
I am considering doing the Rospa exam so I can compare the standards for myself...although I am probably more interested in doing the High Performance Course...but clearly this costs real money - whereas both IAM and Rospa are practically free.
Back on-topic. Until there is a DSA approved "Advanced" qualification which goes on your driving licence it would be hard to introduce legislation favouring such qualified drivers.
And I have a problem with DSA approval. The DSA is a government body and as such is subject to the whims of government political correctness. You only have to see the questions now asked in the Theory test for new drivers to see that...I am concerned that too much DSA involvement with "Advanced Driving" qualifications would introduce absolute bollocks into the "curriculum" as it were....and I'm not talking about the "attitude" section of the Roadcraft book either...
PGM said:
I agree that Rospa is the only way to go due to the re-test element and my experience/perception of the IAM - coffin dodging superior beings.
Oh dear. I don't consider myself a coffin-dodger at the ripe old age of 38. Clearly you had a bad experience with your local IAM group? Sorry that was the case...not all groups are like that.
My goal is to assist in changing groups like the IAM from the inside. By being an involved member - actively trying to improve road safety by training up thinking drivers who avoid unsafe situations through better attitude, superior anticipation and observation and above average car control skills.....and occasionally pointing out that blind adherence to speed limits does not a safe driver make...
Quote...I had a minibus test with an advanced motorist. He seemed much more keen on my clutch control and the way I let the handbrake click on the ratchet than my observation skills.
I had a similar test, which I had to do before being allowed out in a fly by wire skid pan car. He said I was okay at driving, observation very good..I ride a motorbike.... and when I was let loose on the skid pan sailed through everything the car operator thru at me, no cones hit, 100% clear. As it happened the IAM tester was next out.......he demolished the course, cones wedged under the car and he would have ran into the wall whilst braking on (simulated) black ice) if the car operator hadn't interveened.
I'm not saying all the IAM are like him but he was an instructor!!!
I had a similar test, which I had to do before being allowed out in a fly by wire skid pan car. He said I was okay at driving, observation very good..I ride a motorbike.... and when I was let loose on the skid pan sailed through everything the car operator thru at me, no cones hit, 100% clear. As it happened the IAM tester was next out.......he demolished the course, cones wedged under the car and he would have ran into the wall whilst braking on (simulated) black ice) if the car operator hadn't interveened.
I'm not saying all the IAM are like him but he was an instructor!!!
Mark in Ireland said:
I had a similar test, which I had to do before being allowed out in a fly by wire skid pan car. He said I was okay at driving, observation very good..I ride a motorbike.... and when I was let loose on the skid pan sailed through everything the car operator thru at me, no cones hit, 100% clear. As it happened the IAM tester was next out.......he demolished the course, cones wedged under the car and he would have ran into the wall whilst braking on (simulated) black ice) if the car operator hadn't interveened.
I'm not saying all the IAM are like him but he was an instructor!!!
To be fair. An IAM Observer (not "instructor") is expected to be good at helping an individual to develop their skills - and to have an excellent standard of road driving and thereby be able to demonstrate those road skills to an Associate.
They aren't expected to be Michael Schumacher in the wet. On the limit car control skills aren't something that most observers will have experience in - because the observation and anticipation training is supposed to mean that you don't get into the situation where you need them.
My local group does do skid-pan days. However: Attendance at such courses is not mandatory although highly recommended.
Me? I have had quite a lot of skid-pan training and a great deal of on-track training and I do as many track days as budget allows. Great fun it is too. I'm getting better at it too - but its almost nothing to do with good road driving...
Don
Apologise for the rather sweeping branding there!
My experience was that I was confronted by a superior attitude (on more than one occasion on the phone whilst enquiring about joining) which put me off all advanced driving when I was just starting out on my career which involved high milage. I was about 23 then (31 now) and partly hold this responsible for falling into bad 'high milage' habits.
No personal offence meant to anyone here - I respect your obvious ability and trying to change the perception of the IAM - hope you succeed.
Until then I will take RoSPA!
Cheers
Paul
Apologise for the rather sweeping branding there!
My experience was that I was confronted by a superior attitude (on more than one occasion on the phone whilst enquiring about joining) which put me off all advanced driving when I was just starting out on my career which involved high milage. I was about 23 then (31 now) and partly hold this responsible for falling into bad 'high milage' habits.
No personal offence meant to anyone here - I respect your obvious ability and trying to change the perception of the IAM - hope you succeed.
Until then I will take RoSPA!
Cheers
Paul
Have to disagree about the IAM's Select Insurance scheme, it doesn't give discounts like they promise they will. They wanted £1200 more, yes more! than the cheapest insurer. I eventually went with Tesco who don't even recognise any Advanced Driver certificates, they were as said £1200 cheaper!!!!
The only incentive to having past any of the Advanced courses is that your driving skills should have improved otherwise nothing else.
Insurance companies don't want to discount - they want your money!
The only incentive to having past any of the Advanced courses is that your driving skills should have improved otherwise nothing else.
Insurance companies don't want to discount - they want your money!
Don said:
I am considering doing the Rospa exam so I can compare the standards for myself...although I am probably more interested in doing the High Performance Course...but clearly this costs real money - whereas both IAM and Rospa are practically free.
HPC? And so you should ... HPC (the Course) is only the start. Check out the events and more in HPC (the Club):
www.hpc.org.uk
Though be prepared for a demanding and highly educational Course to get into the Club: roadcraft at its highest for a civilian.
This looks very interesting...Hi Plotloss - Yep! Completing HPC is one of the most demanding and rewarding things I’ve ever done. Whilst no civilian will reach police Class 1 standard, this route is the closest you can get.
The Course comprises:
1. Do a “First Drive” with John Lyon, current Course Director. (Though due to retire soon.) This is half a day’s road driving with instruction and assessment. John taught at the world-renowned Metropolitan Police Motor Driving School and more (e.g. Le Mans competitor, Snetterton chief instructor, SAS driving instructor, test driver…). You'll get ample feedback and a guide on what to practice before you can come back to take the Course.
2. Return for 2-day Course of road driving plus things like handling on [simulated] snow and ice. It also uses the track, but driving as if on the road.
3. There’s no pass/fail but instead John’s recommendation to join the High Performance Club provided you reach the standard. (The only other route into the Club is if you are a police driving school instructor.)
4. Do Club events! The Course's a starting point, giving you a basic framework from which to develop your own style. Club members are insured for one another’s cars, so the entry level has to be high. John can be tough, but the Club is relaxed and provides a discussion group for very advanced road driving techniques. The Club's amazing
>> Edited by huge_ego on Thursday 16th October 21:02
The Course comprises:
1. Do a “First Drive” with John Lyon, current Course Director. (Though due to retire soon.) This is half a day’s road driving with instruction and assessment. John taught at the world-renowned Metropolitan Police Motor Driving School and more (e.g. Le Mans competitor, Snetterton chief instructor, SAS driving instructor, test driver…). You'll get ample feedback and a guide on what to practice before you can come back to take the Course.
2. Return for 2-day Course of road driving plus things like handling on [simulated] snow and ice. It also uses the track, but driving as if on the road.
3. There’s no pass/fail but instead John’s recommendation to join the High Performance Club provided you reach the standard. (The only other route into the Club is if you are a police driving school instructor.)
4. Do Club events! The Course's a starting point, giving you a basic framework from which to develop your own style. Club members are insured for one another’s cars, so the entry level has to be high. John can be tough, but the Club is relaxed and provides a discussion group for very advanced road driving techniques. The Club's amazing
>> Edited by huge_ego on Thursday 16th October 21:02
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