RE: One Third Lie
Wednesday 20th August 2003
One Third Lie
New website exposes the truth behind the propoganda
Discussion
Good site, but could use some more user friendly formatting! Large text can come across as shouting JUST THE SAME AS ALL CAPS!
You need some support from relevant bodies - endorsement by the AA, RAC or suchlike. And some way of allowing visitors to pledge support or indicate agreement (or otherwise) with the sentiments expressed.
You need some support from relevant bodies - endorsement by the AA, RAC or suchlike. And some way of allowing visitors to pledge support or indicate agreement (or otherwise) with the sentiments expressed.
bad company said:
Theres a draft letter on the site to send to your MP. I probably write to mine at least once a month about daft speed limits and cameras etc.
Perhaps if enough of us used the letter on this site and sent it to our MP's???
there is a petition being set up... go to gassing station and check down the list...
Holy mother of God. Following the link on this site the the Association of Chief Police Officer's site, I've found out that Brunstrom is the ACPO spokesman on traffic technology enforcemen.
What idiot let that loony into a position where he supposedly presents the opinions of the combined police constabularys in the country?!
What idiot let that loony into a position where he supposedly presents the opinions of the combined police constabularys in the country?!
LexSport said:
Holy mother of God. Following the link on this site the the Association of Chief Police Officer's site, I've found out that Brunstrom is the ACPO spokesman on traffic technology enforcemen.
I've just had a look at his statement (www.acpo.police.uk/policies/RBrDM08.doc) and I must be being fick or sumfin, 'cos I don't understand where the figure of 100,000 injured suddenly comes from:
"Mr Richard Brunstrom, ACPO spokesman on traffic technology enforcement and Chief Constable of North Wales Police explains the ACPO view:
Why are the police proposing to issue lots more speeding tickets? Well, 3409 people died on our roads in the UK in 2000, and 38000 people were seriously injured. This appalling death toll is the equivalent of ten full jumbo jets crashing in the UK every year, killing everyone on board. By contrast there were 761 murders in 1999 – less than a quarter of the number of people killed on the roads. There were 64 people killed in rail crashes last year – too many, but less than 2% of those killed on our roads. We in the police can and should be doing more about road death, and we intend to.
The best available estimate is that speed is the major cause of about one third of all road crashes. Excess speed is therefore killing over 1000 people per year, and injuring over 100,000 more. Speed really does kill."
Maybe someone can enlighten me before I point out to them that 1) someone needs a math lesson and 2) they ought to proof read documents before publishing them.
some nutter police man said:
The best available estimate is that speed is the major cause of about one third of all road crashes. Excess speed is therefore killing over 1000 people per year, and injuring over 100,000 more. Speed really does kill."
Estimate - Where has the research gone if they have to estimate?
Major - Sounds sexed up to me. All other things I have read say only a contributory factor
I've just been to that website (those e-mails are very old btw), then I went to the TRL site to read the relavent report. I didn't as it cost £25, but it does say
So I've got 2 queries:
1) It was done in the summer, surely this will bias results as less accidents will be weather related?
2) It shows the types of results that can be obtained, does this mean this isn't an actual study into the causes of road accidents?
Nige.
TRL said:
It was tested in a three month trial in the summer of 1996 in which eight police forces cooperated. This report summarises the development of the new system, describes the trial and presents analyses of the data collected to demonstrate the type of results that can be achieved
So I've got 2 queries:
1) It was done in the summer, surely this will bias results as less accidents will be weather related?
2) It shows the types of results that can be obtained, does this mean this isn't an actual study into the causes of road accidents?
Nige.
we ave a problem in our village with speeding (the real speeding problem where idiots drive too fast for the conditions or where its not appropriate) and its a pity most residents elsewhere around the country are not like ours. Its so obviously a Government agenda to get humps everywhere and that's why they part fund them through local councils. Mine is Oxford and to understand the dopes that dish out the cash there you only have to drive through the city and look at its integrated transport policy (nightmare). Our village has been offered cash incentives to have humps, chicanes etc and the parish council has with the help of the Tory councillor on the committee pushed for them - its the only answer they said. Why? Cause the 'experts' tell us so. What happened? The villagers were all up in arms, and last Monday at a special parish meeting the Tory Councillor threw his toys out of his pram, ranted and raved and resigned. PEOPLE POWER dont u just luv it! IF only a few more had the common sense to stand up and be counted like our village.
In years to come all these humps will be dug up and we will look back and try to understand what prat first instigated them. Speed does not kill, prats behind the wheel do that.
In years to come all these humps will be dug up and we will look back and try to understand what prat first instigated them. Speed does not kill, prats behind the wheel do that.
Hi folks
Many thanks to all of you that have visited the site and commented on it.
I appreciate the formatting isn't the best in the world, but I hope it's still clear. I'm concentrating on the content first and then I'll have a little tidy-up on the aesthetics front!
On the suggestion of a method of visitors pledging support - emails sent to MPs or organisations involved in the lie would be a great help. Also, emails sent en-masse to media organisations might be of some benefit too. To be honest, I doubt the AA or RAC would help or be interested, but you never know. The AA in particular are pro-speed camera.
TRL 323 was a real-life study into how best to record accident causation factors. Despite this, the data set collected was quite comprehensive (2795 accidents) recorded across (and I believe, representative) of 'real-life' accident causation. Point taken on the summer weather though. Many, if not all, of the other quoted 'speed link to accidents' reports are nothing more than cobbled together fantasy and are based on subjective conjecture, not real-life stats as with 323. The critical thing is that the DfT bases the One Third Lie on TRL323 - which is ludicrous because no such claims are made. I've sent an appeal to the TRL to make the report free. No reply as yet (I wonder why!)
The dates on the 'Debunked' TRL/DfT emails are correct. They were sent last year and initially appeared on the Safe Speed website. The Radio Authority emails are new.
On accident causation, your local police will likely keep causation data on recorded accidents. Send them an email! Our campaign will be trying to obtain such data too.
All the best
One Third Lie Webmaster
Many thanks to all of you that have visited the site and commented on it.
I appreciate the formatting isn't the best in the world, but I hope it's still clear. I'm concentrating on the content first and then I'll have a little tidy-up on the aesthetics front!
On the suggestion of a method of visitors pledging support - emails sent to MPs or organisations involved in the lie would be a great help. Also, emails sent en-masse to media organisations might be of some benefit too. To be honest, I doubt the AA or RAC would help or be interested, but you never know. The AA in particular are pro-speed camera.
TRL 323 was a real-life study into how best to record accident causation factors. Despite this, the data set collected was quite comprehensive (2795 accidents) recorded across (and I believe, representative) of 'real-life' accident causation. Point taken on the summer weather though. Many, if not all, of the other quoted 'speed link to accidents' reports are nothing more than cobbled together fantasy and are based on subjective conjecture, not real-life stats as with 323. The critical thing is that the DfT bases the One Third Lie on TRL323 - which is ludicrous because no such claims are made. I've sent an appeal to the TRL to make the report free. No reply as yet (I wonder why!)
The dates on the 'Debunked' TRL/DfT emails are correct. They were sent last year and initially appeared on the Safe Speed website. The Radio Authority emails are new.
On accident causation, your local police will likely keep causation data on recorded accidents. Send them an email! Our campaign will be trying to obtain such data too.
All the best
One Third Lie Webmaster
sidekick said:
"Mr Richard Brunstrom, ACPO spokesman on traffic technology enforcement and Chief Constable of North Wales Police explains the ACPO view:
Why are the police proposing to issue lots more speeding tickets? Well, 3409 people died on our roads in the UK in 2000, and 38000 people were seriously injured. This appalling death toll is the equivalent of ten full jumbo jets crashing in the UK every year, killing everyone on board. By contrast there were 761 murders in 1999 – less than a quarter of the number of people killed on the roads. There were 64 people killed in rail crashes last year – too many, but less than 2% of those killed on our roads. We in the police can and should be doing more about road death, and we intend to.
The best available estimate is that speed is the major cause of about one third of all road crashes. Excess speed is therefore killing over 1000 people per year, and injuring over 100,000 more. Speed really does kill."
Maybe someone can enlighten me before I point out to them that 1) someone needs a math lesson and 2) they ought to proof read documents before publishing them.
And of course no-one mentions that using government condoned (and taxed) tobacco, causes 33000 DEATHS A YEAR and 350000 associated diseases........ I wonder why????
TRL said:
As explained in TRL 323, 7.3% of the factors recorded in the accidents were 'excessive speed'. For each accident, the police could record up to four factors which they considered contributed to the accident. In all, 5847 factors were recorded relating to 2795 accidents - on average that is about 2 factors per accident. So, since 7.3% of the factors were excessive speed, this means that excessive speed was reported in about twice this many accidents - ie. 15% of accidents.
Since speed will have been the reason for other factors also being recorded, when allowance is made for this, the contribution is, TRL believes, much greater than 15%. The figure of one-third quoted by DfT is not inconsistent with this conclusion.
I'm certain any A level maths student could drive a bus through this leap of faith from 7.2% to 15%.. Dear oh Dear..
Matt.
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