Speeding Cut Off Date?????
Discussion
666 GRF said:
If you are caught for speeding is there a time limit in which you must be brought before a magistrate. 
It's probably wishfull thinking on my partbut it would be interesting to know if anyone has waited over 6 mths for a summons..
This is what the speed-trap.co.uk site says:
"The police have to serve a summons on the defendant within 6 months of the date on which the prosecutor (normally the CPS) certify that they have collated enough evidence to bring a charge. This does not mean that the police have 6 months from the date of the offence to charge the accused. My advice to anyone who has received a summons more than 6 months after the alleged offence is to request a copy of the signed and dated certificate of prosecution from the Police/CPS. For a normal common or garden speeding offence with no complications I can think of absolutely no reason why the prosecution should not issue a summons within 6 months of the offence. Notwithstanding the above, the Prosecution must bring proceedings within 3 years of the alleged offence."
Hi was stopped on the 20th of April 2005 and recieved a court summons yesterday(Nov2nd) for a court date Nov 10th
6 months would have been october 20th I presume?
The summons itself was signed and dated on October 7th... but like I said I recived it on Nov 2nd (envelope posmark to prove it)
Any ideas if this falls in the "greater than 6 months rule"?
Does this rule actually exist??
If it does... how do I tell the court, or do I still have to turn up at the summons
cheers
6 months would have been october 20th I presume?
The summons itself was signed and dated on October 7th... but like I said I recived it on Nov 2nd (envelope posmark to prove it)
Any ideas if this falls in the "greater than 6 months rule"?
Does this rule actually exist??
If it does... how do I tell the court, or do I still have to turn up at the summons
cheers
An information has to be laid with the Magistrates Court within 6 months of the date of the offence.
The summons can be issued later - up to a couple of years later...
Edit to add: tassa, unfortunately the information was laid within the timescales permitted
>> Edited by SS2. on Thursday 3rd November 15:26
The summons can be issued later - up to a couple of years later...
Edit to add: tassa, unfortunately the information was laid within the timescales permitted
>> Edited by SS2. on Thursday 3rd November 15:26
ok... so we'll have our day in court then
now just to confuse matters....
in the time it's taken for the court summons to appear, someone( who shall remain nameless) was stopped for speeding again!
obviously you can drive until you are banned...
so in theory... if originally on 9 points... the first court case will take to 12 (hence summons) and new court case will take to 15 !!
things don't look good
is it best explaining this in court at the first summons or, hopefully, try and get off with no ban (need car for work) and then try same again at 2nd summons?
obviously if banned then looking at a longer ban at the second summons
final question, does the court have a history of all offences/severity as mine have been pathetically marginal?
I presume the court at 2nd summons will know I've been already at 1st summons (even if not banned)?
45mph on thames enbankment(30zone) - x2 - same speed as all other traffic
90mph on motorway (not so good)
latest 63mph in 50 zone - A3
now just to confuse matters....
in the time it's taken for the court summons to appear, someone( who shall remain nameless) was stopped for speeding again!
obviously you can drive until you are banned...
so in theory... if originally on 9 points... the first court case will take to 12 (hence summons) and new court case will take to 15 !!
things don't look good
is it best explaining this in court at the first summons or, hopefully, try and get off with no ban (need car for work) and then try same again at 2nd summons?
obviously if banned then looking at a longer ban at the second summons
final question, does the court have a history of all offences/severity as mine have been pathetically marginal?
I presume the court at 2nd summons will know I've been already at 1st summons (even if not banned)?
45mph on thames enbankment(30zone) - x2 - same speed as all other traffic
90mph on motorway (not so good)
latest 63mph in 50 zone - A3
You will need a solicitor. he will plead for as short a ban as possible, and with the ban you go back to zero points. Then you'll get your next 3 at he final (?) court case - or not, I suppose you've just got a nip and will get 3 points and £60.
I would reccomend a solicitor though. I am firmly of the opinion that the law works in such a way that it insists that YOU pay THEM a load of money. You can either do that in the way of a big fine or you can pay it to a solicitor, but they insist that one of their own gets a good wedge. They're not going to let you plead for yourself and then give you a low fine. One way or another you must pay, and they'd like the money to go to one of their own.
You could use the duty solicitor, but when wifey and I had to appear in front of the magistrates, we were told that the service of the duty solicitor had been withdrawn to motorists. Fortunately the courts paperwork informed us that we could use the duty solicitor, which really clouded the issue and helped our case, IMO.
If you don't get a ban, the points on your licence may still stand. So if you then shortly have to appear again, with 11 or 12 points already on your licence, they'll throw the book at you, I would have thought. I mean, you could end up appearing before the same beak, in which case it'll be a thumbscrew job.
I reckon a solicitor to negotiate a short ban is your best bet. I don't think you'll get away without a ban.
I would reccomend a solicitor though. I am firmly of the opinion that the law works in such a way that it insists that YOU pay THEM a load of money. You can either do that in the way of a big fine or you can pay it to a solicitor, but they insist that one of their own gets a good wedge. They're not going to let you plead for yourself and then give you a low fine. One way or another you must pay, and they'd like the money to go to one of their own.
You could use the duty solicitor, but when wifey and I had to appear in front of the magistrates, we were told that the service of the duty solicitor had been withdrawn to motorists. Fortunately the courts paperwork informed us that we could use the duty solicitor, which really clouded the issue and helped our case, IMO.
If you don't get a ban, the points on your licence may still stand. So if you then shortly have to appear again, with 11 or 12 points already on your licence, they'll throw the book at you, I would have thought. I mean, you could end up appearing before the same beak, in which case it'll be a thumbscrew job.
I reckon a solicitor to negotiate a short ban is your best bet. I don't think you'll get away without a ban.
The Offence committed on day A will arrive at Court by summons on Day B at which time a conviction will take up to 12 points because of totting a ban.
In an effort to get away from a ban you can plead the hardship card and produce evidence and if lucky get away from a ban.
The Offence committed on Day C (between days A and B above) lands at Court on day D at which time you are either banned from Day B -( but not on a driving whilst disq charge) or sitting with 12 points having been successful on the hardship plea. My guess if that the ton of bricks may fall and ban extented under the discretionary clause.
The hardship plea can only be made once in 3 years IIRC.
There is scope that for the offence on Day A at Court on Day B then you can ask that they deal with the offence of that day in isolation and impose a short ban leaving 9 points on the Licence. The effect is that for the offence on Day C and at Court on Day D, the ban imposed earlier may have run its course and you are left with 9 points and then go for a plea of hardship and no further ban. Not sure that they would wear this and you would need a good brief at both hearings.
You may consider letting the Court know for the first hearing that you have another case outstanding and have both dealt with together (one Court can deal with anothers case under these circumstances) so that you are not backwards and forwards if you get the gist. Again the hardship plea can be made and it could mitigate a longer ban.
As to previous endorsements, all those metered out by FPN or Court are recorded on the Driving Licence Record maintained at DVLA. For Court purposes, and acceptable as evidence backed up by production of Driving Licence at Court,CPS will make application to DVLA for the Drivers record of the offender when all sins will be revealed to the Clerk of the Court who advises the Bench.
dvd
In an effort to get away from a ban you can plead the hardship card and produce evidence and if lucky get away from a ban.
The Offence committed on Day C (between days A and B above) lands at Court on day D at which time you are either banned from Day B -( but not on a driving whilst disq charge) or sitting with 12 points having been successful on the hardship plea. My guess if that the ton of bricks may fall and ban extented under the discretionary clause.
The hardship plea can only be made once in 3 years IIRC.
There is scope that for the offence on Day A at Court on Day B then you can ask that they deal with the offence of that day in isolation and impose a short ban leaving 9 points on the Licence. The effect is that for the offence on Day C and at Court on Day D, the ban imposed earlier may have run its course and you are left with 9 points and then go for a plea of hardship and no further ban. Not sure that they would wear this and you would need a good brief at both hearings.
You may consider letting the Court know for the first hearing that you have another case outstanding and have both dealt with together (one Court can deal with anothers case under these circumstances) so that you are not backwards and forwards if you get the gist. Again the hardship plea can be made and it could mitigate a longer ban.
As to previous endorsements, all those metered out by FPN or Court are recorded on the Driving Licence Record maintained at DVLA. For Court purposes, and acceptable as evidence backed up by production of Driving Licence at Court,CPS will make application to DVLA for the Drivers record of the offender when all sins will be revealed to the Clerk of the Court who advises the Bench.
dvd
Technically it's 6 months to lay papers from the day on which the prosecuting authority has sufficient evidence to believe that an offence has been convicted, not the date of the offence itself. In practice this is more or less the same thing, but I wouldn't release a video of yourself speeding 6 months after the act and necessarily expect to get away with it.
latest.... had my case heard yesterday. a very nice magistrate let me off with a 1 month ban and £130 fine. represented myself and pleaded that I need my car for work (which I do)and extreme hardship without license
very fortunate!
now just have to wait for the second summons to come through...
am I correct in thinking that for a second ban the max a magistrate can give is a 56 day ban or 6 points?
not much fun all of this... certainly teaches you that it's not worth the bother of speeding!
very fortunate!
now just have to wait for the second summons to come through...
am I correct in thinking that for a second ban the max a magistrate can give is a 56 day ban or 6 points?
not much fun all of this... certainly teaches you that it's not worth the bother of speeding!
So Tassa when you appeared at Court your Licence was heavily laden with 9 points? and looking at a 6 month ban under totting rules. But hey luck was on your side and they dealt with the charge as a straight forward speeder and invoked discretionary ban of 1 month. As a result of the ban no more points on the licence but your still in the danger zone for the next appearance with 9 points.
Your sin sheet will show all and somehow I cannot promise that the ton of bricks will not fall and because of the earlier ban I cannot see them warming to a hardship plea.
By the way if you look at your summons there is information of the date when the Information was laid and between this date and the offence date no more than 6 months is permitted. If it is over 6 months then proceedings out of date and your a free man....
dvd
Your sin sheet will show all and somehow I cannot promise that the ton of bricks will not fall and because of the earlier ban I cannot see them warming to a hardship plea.
By the way if you look at your summons there is information of the date when the Information was laid and between this date and the offence date no more than 6 months is permitted. If it is over 6 months then proceedings out of date and your a free man....
dvd
Tassa
I think you will find that is not so.
On your first Court appearance the Bench exercised their discretion to deal with it under Section 34 Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988 and impose a discretionary ban instead of declining and moving on to deal under Section 35 RTO 88 and a totting ban.
In doing so you got the ban under S34 but that leaves your 9 points intact to act as a deterent.
It would appear that the next one to be dealt with will remove all your points - a possible 6 month ban under S35.
dvd
I think you will find that is not so.
On your first Court appearance the Bench exercised their discretion to deal with it under Section 34 Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988 and impose a discretionary ban instead of declining and moving on to deal under Section 35 RTO 88 and a totting ban.
In doing so you got the ban under S34 but that leaves your 9 points intact to act as a deterent.
It would appear that the next one to be dealt with will remove all your points - a possible 6 month ban under S35.
dvd
i was lasered at 90 in a 70.
i have just had a summons - speeding - dated 8 days before the 6 months were up, but posted 10 days after the 6 months were up.
The police officers sworn statement was made 1 day before the 6 months were up but 7 days after the summons was issued.
The officer has changed the date of his statement from October to Novenber and initialled the change.
How do i know this document was completed before the 6 months were up and not afterwards?
any thoughts
i have just had a summons - speeding - dated 8 days before the 6 months were up, but posted 10 days after the 6 months were up.
The police officers sworn statement was made 1 day before the 6 months were up but 7 days after the summons was issued.
The officer has changed the date of his statement from October to Novenber and initialled the change.
How do i know this document was completed before the 6 months were up and not afterwards?
any thoughts
On the summons there should be a section which states when the INFORMATION was laid.
Is this within 6 months from the offence? If yes - no get out. If over then you have an argument that proceedings cannot go ahead as they are out of time.
Many reasons why the discrepanacies in date on Plod statement. Used to be a Mini file submitted shortly affterwards and in between summons issued and court returned for addition information etc and therefore statement re -signed, not fatal to proceedings. Bear in mind also it is what is given on oath that counts.
The argument that statement outside the 6 months and therefore outside knowledge coming to the notice of the prosecutor in this time so Infornmation could not be laid would appear to be out of the window as Plod has that power to prosecute.
dvd
Is this within 6 months from the offence? If yes - no get out. If over then you have an argument that proceedings cannot go ahead as they are out of time.
Many reasons why the discrepanacies in date on Plod statement. Used to be a Mini file submitted shortly affterwards and in between summons issued and court returned for addition information etc and therefore statement re -signed, not fatal to proceedings. Bear in mind also it is what is given on oath that counts.
The argument that statement outside the 6 months and therefore outside knowledge coming to the notice of the prosecutor in this time so Infornmation could not be laid would appear to be out of the window as Plod has that power to prosecute.
dvd
thanks for that, this is in Anglesey and after north Wales’s policy of using the scanned in signatures of officers on statements you never know.
I understood the reason for the six month rule was to make sure that the people involved could remember the occasion. Being able to actually serve the documents any time after makes a mockery of the what parliament intended. I am pleading not guilty anyway, i will have my day in court and pay for it the hard way.
I detest Brustum and his men, after living in his area for more than ten years i have been burgled, windows smashed, boat broken into, beaten up on Christmas day, and the police have not helped or arrested anyone, but they are doing a public service by stopping me at 90 on a clear straight dual carriage way on a summers evening.
Still i feel better now.
Many thanks
I understood the reason for the six month rule was to make sure that the people involved could remember the occasion. Being able to actually serve the documents any time after makes a mockery of the what parliament intended. I am pleading not guilty anyway, i will have my day in court and pay for it the hard way.
I detest Brustum and his men, after living in his area for more than ten years i have been burgled, windows smashed, boat broken into, beaten up on Christmas day, and the police have not helped or arrested anyone, but they are doing a public service by stopping me at 90 on a clear straight dual carriage way on a summers evening.
Still i feel better now.
Many thanks
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