Discussion
feeling a bit confused just been out in my sons friends 500bhp single turbo supra on a stretch of road we call the test track.
would add i was not the driver at a landmark on the road we hit 1.3 leptons.few weeks ago same road four up in a brand new m3 same speed.
please correct me if i'm wrong a cerb is quicker than a m3.but the supra felt a lot quicker than any cerb i've been in as i said feeling a bit confused.
i would add i did'nt like the power delivery of the supra nothing then smashed in the back with a sledge hammer.
would add i was not the driver at a landmark on the road we hit 1.3 leptons.few weeks ago same road four up in a brand new m3 same speed.
please correct me if i'm wrong a cerb is quicker than a m3.but the supra felt a lot quicker than any cerb i've been in as i said feeling a bit confused.
i would add i did'nt like the power delivery of the supra nothing then smashed in the back with a sledge hammer.
Well you could get the Cerb Turbo charged.
Or perhaps borrow the Top Gear Nitrous XJS and compare that to the Supra.
Please don't be offended, but as an Engineer I do wish people would compare like for like.
A Nirous Cerb would leave anything else for dead! 600BHP?
Do it you know you want too!!
Or perhaps borrow the Top Gear Nitrous XJS and compare that to the Supra.
Please don't be offended, but as an Engineer I do wish people would compare like for like.
A Nirous Cerb would leave anything else for dead! 600BHP?
Do it you know you want too!!
cerby54 said:
i would add i did'nt like the power delivery of the supra nothing then smashed in the back with a sledge hammer.
Oh the joys of turbo lag, all that power comes at a price, that's where the GTR Skyline wins, sequential turbos. 
The Supra is a lovely car, I have a contemporary Nissan, but it's not a Cerb'.
The Supras also tend to fall into the 'Turbo Nutter' catagory unfortnately, and I don't wear baseball caps!
Tim
no i much prefer the way the cerb delivers the power,i prefer the cerb all round.
as i said the supra seemed much faster,but at the landmark when i looked at the speedo the speed did'nt support that thats what i found confusing.
mind you the bar had been open for several hours,anyway about to leave to go andy apm for my engine service base ball cap left in a drawer at home.
as i said the supra seemed much faster,but at the landmark when i looked at the speedo the speed did'nt support that thats what i found confusing.
mind you the bar had been open for several hours,anyway about to leave to go andy apm for my engine service base ball cap left in a drawer at home.
500hp. Is that dyno reading or an estimate?
What's the weight of the supra?
What cerb are you comparing it against?
On top of that, you say it only "felt" faster, and then mention the power delivery being nothing, then a huge rush. I would imagine that could well "feel" faster. I took someone out in my cerb the other day and she said "Hmmm... it's not as fast as the porsche I was in the other day" and then I pointed out the speedo reading and she was surprised we were going that fast.
The power delivery in my cerb feels quite linear. It sort of builds in a wall of torque as the revs rise. There's no sudden rush as boost (or VVT or whatever) kicks in. It's just a gentle push that builds as the revs rise until you are reaching the red line and it's time to change. I'd imagine a BIG turbo kicking in would make a noticable surge and therefore convince you that you are suddenly really shifting.
What's the weight of the supra?
What cerb are you comparing it against?
On top of that, you say it only "felt" faster, and then mention the power delivery being nothing, then a huge rush. I would imagine that could well "feel" faster. I took someone out in my cerb the other day and she said "Hmmm... it's not as fast as the porsche I was in the other day" and then I pointed out the speedo reading and she was surprised we were going that fast.
The power delivery in my cerb feels quite linear. It sort of builds in a wall of torque as the revs rise. There's no sudden rush as boost (or VVT or whatever) kicks in. It's just a gentle push that builds as the revs rise until you are reaching the red line and it's time to change. I'd imagine a BIG turbo kicking in would make a noticable surge and therefore convince you that you are suddenly really shifting.
IMHO 100mph in the Cerbera doesn't feel fast, more like 70 in most other cars. It is just starting to get into it's stride. A 997 turbo will be quicker but without the theatre.
You can only use the speed on very few occasions on the road but you can have the "theatre" every time you go out.
You don't get that in a Supra/Skyline!
You can only use the speed on very few occasions on the road but you can have the "theatre" every time you go out.
You don't get that in a Supra/Skyline!
volospian said:
On top of that, you say it only "felt" faster, and then mention the power delivery being nothing, then a huge rush. I would imagine that could well "feel" faster. I took someone out in my cerb the other day and she said "Hmmm... it's not as fast as the porsche I was in the other day" and then I pointed out the speedo reading and she was surprised we were going that fast.
The power delivery in my cerb feels quite linear. It sort of builds in a wall of torque as the revs rise. There's no sudden rush as boost (or VVT or whatever) kicks in. It's just a gentle push that builds as the revs rise until you are reaching the red line and it's time to change. I'd imagine a BIG turbo kicking in would make a noticable surge and therefore convince you that you are suddenly really shifting.
The power delivery in my cerb feels quite linear. It sort of builds in a wall of torque as the revs rise. There's no sudden rush as boost (or VVT or whatever) kicks in. It's just a gentle push that builds as the revs rise until you are reaching the red line and it's time to change. I'd imagine a BIG turbo kicking in would make a noticable surge and therefore convince you that you are suddenly really shifting.
There've been times when I've jumped out of the Cerb into my Saab (300bhp, 1450kg, old skool turbo) and got out at the other end thinking "not so slow, the old girl" - what you feel in the seat of your pants is torque, and more specifically changes in torque. When the turbo comes in the torque goes from two thirds of bugger all to eleventy million in less than a second, and that's what "feels" fast. Your brain is far less good at calculating the time over which a force is acting.
Another factor here....apart from the boost that will make it feel quicker, is the torque.... I'm guessing it's got a lot more than the Cerb.
Add a factor of "x1.2" because you were a passenger
And another factor of "x1.3" because you're not aware of the skills/lack of skills of the driver, and you come to your total "feels faster"
It's always a pretty exciting drive in my dad's car, even at 20mph, down to the fact that he drives to close to the vehicle in front
Out of interest, what does the Cerb hit on the same Circuit ?
Add a factor of "x1.2" because you were a passenger
And another factor of "x1.3" because you're not aware of the skills/lack of skills of the driver, and you come to your total "feels faster"
It's always a pretty exciting drive in my dad's car, even at 20mph, down to the fact that he drives to close to the vehicle in front
Out of interest, what does the Cerb hit on the same Circuit ?
Picking up from Russell's point, another issue is control - when you get a sudden rush of torque, it all gets "exciting" quite quickly. In the Saab its fighting torque steer, in something big and RWD its fighting the rear end squirm. Either way it requires input from you, and that probably leads to a degree of adrenaline which isn't present when you just got one almighty surge pushing you along.
Standard Cerbera vs Standard Toyota Supra? The Cerbera wins hands down any time, no contest. The Supra is a farly quick car (0-60 in just over 5 secs) so a 500+hp modded Supra may well be quicker than a Cerb, but so what.
There's a modded Honda Civic in this country with 700hp, that will kick the ass of all of our cars, but I'm not going to lose any sleep thinking a Civic is quicker than a Cerb.
It's good to drive a car that in standard form is one of the quickest cars around, thats one of the reasons why the 'ol Cerb is such a respected and admired car.
There's a modded Honda Civic in this country with 700hp, that will kick the ass of all of our cars, but I'm not going to lose any sleep thinking a Civic is quicker than a Cerb.
It's good to drive a car that in standard form is one of the quickest cars around, thats one of the reasons why the 'ol Cerb is such a respected and admired car.
Edited by JensenA on Friday 23 May 11:53
Interesting debate this one, I have a TT supra and a Cerbera. I raced my old Griff 500 against my supra (dad in griff, me in supra) on a duel carrigeway and the Griff got hammered!!
I dont want to see what happens agaisnt the Cerb incase it gets beaten too. Indeed the Cerbera has much more drama, and is probably quicker in a straight line, although maybe not at high speeds, but bring handling etc into the equation and I think the TVR might get a fright.
Too many people discount cars like the supra, just because they get driven by younger people doesnt take away from the fact they are very capable cars.
Also, mine still has its twin turbos, so no issues with lag - its not 500 bhp though!!
I dont want to see what happens agaisnt the Cerb incase it gets beaten too. Indeed the Cerbera has much more drama, and is probably quicker in a straight line, although maybe not at high speeds, but bring handling etc into the equation and I think the TVR might get a fright.
Too many people discount cars like the supra, just because they get driven by younger people doesnt take away from the fact they are very capable cars.
Also, mine still has its twin turbos, so no issues with lag - its not 500 bhp though!!
BHP to weight wise, the Supra's going to be about 320bhp per tonne v the 335bhp per tonne average Cerb.
Torque wise The Supra's going to have 320 lbs per tonne v the Cerb's 305lbs per tonne.
I'd expect it to be a good match.
I'm guessing that Supra probably does a 12 second 1/4 mile ?
Torque wise The Supra's going to have 320 lbs per tonne v the Cerb's 305lbs per tonne.
I'd expect it to be a good match.
I'm guessing that Supra probably does a 12 second 1/4 mile ?
Edited by RUSSELLM on Friday 23 May 12:32
Also to consider are the bulls
t tuned Jap BHP figures usually quoted (nearly as bad as the standard cerb figures 
).
Also if it is a Jap import then the speedo will have been converted from Kmh to Mph and as such can be very inaccurate.
My Skyline felt fast when tuned because of the 'turbo rush' (as described earlier) but I doubt it was much faster than my cerb (in a straight line).
t tuned Jap BHP figures usually quoted (nearly as bad as the standard cerb figures ).Also if it is a Jap import then the speedo will have been converted from Kmh to Mph and as such can be very inaccurate.
My Skyline felt fast when tuned because of the 'turbo rush' (as described earlier) but I doubt it was much faster than my cerb (in a straight line).
Nefarious said:
There've been times when I've jumped out of the Cerb into my Saab (300bhp, 1450kg, old skool turbo) and got out at the other end thinking "not so slow, the old girl" - what you feel in the seat of your pants is torque, and more specifically changes in torque. When the turbo comes in the torque goes from two thirds of bugger all to eleventy million in less than a second, and that's what "feels" fast. Your brain is far less good at calculating the time over which a force is acting.
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