Wife's in a SP30 mess
Discussion
My wife got flashed by a couple of cameras recently and she has received 2 NIP's in the post this week.
She already has two endorsements, both SP30 and a total of 6 points. The first is dated 2/5/2000 and the second 25/1/2003.
Is the first offence now expired (2/5/2003)? She has read on the DVLA website that they stay on your license for 4 years and is panicing a bit.
All these were in our Ford Galaxy not the TVR! She drives that really carefully thank god!
TIA
She already has two endorsements, both SP30 and a total of 6 points. The first is dated 2/5/2000 and the second 25/1/2003.
Is the first offence now expired (2/5/2003)? She has read on the DVLA website that they stay on your license for 4 years and is panicing a bit.
All these were in our Ford Galaxy not the TVR! She drives that really carefully thank god!
TIA
Points physically stay on your licence for 4 years. However they are only counted for three years when for Totting up purposes. Therefore your wife is currently on 3 points.
DAZ
Edited to say do a search on this forum on the 14 day rule and also check the latest postings on completing the NIPs but not signing them.
>> Edited by dazren (moderator) on Wednesday 20th August 23:09
DAZ
Edited to say do a search on this forum on the 14 day rule and also check the latest postings on completing the NIPs but not signing them.
>> Edited by dazren (moderator) on Wednesday 20th August 23:09
Thanks Dazren, I have mentioned the idea of not signing them but she has already signed and filled in one just not sent it back yet.
Perhaps try with the other.
Incidently the other is from Lanceshire Constabulary (sp) and comes with a Q&A sheet. One question is 'can I request to see the photographic evidence' and they specifically say that you cannot.
wtf!
Perhaps try with the other.
Incidently the other is from Lanceshire Constabulary (sp) and comes with a Q&A sheet. One question is 'can I request to see the photographic evidence' and they specifically say that you cannot.
wtf!
hertsbiker said:
They are lying.
Of course you MUST be able to see the pics, otherwise how can you decide if it is you driving??
They are only leggally compelled to if you opt to go to court.
They have no obligation to help you find out who was driving.
Crazy isn't it.
However you only have to take reasonable steps to find out who was driving.
this is how blair and his cohorts will kill this country 12 points no licence no job .I bet all the points were for accidents?, as this is what speeding causes .ahh at least the roads are safer for me sorry there goes the transit at a ton on the m1 which I caught 30 minutes later stoped by the bib with at least 50 ilegals in the back,all on the road for free this week prob no I bet so who`s paying for this ?.I wonder if we can move some one abroad get them to register all our cars and bin all the nips or may be we can make a network and us register other countries cars and bin their nips .PROBLEM SOLVED
toad_oftoadhall said:
hertsbiker said:They are lying.
Of course you MUST be able to see the pics, otherwise how can you decide if it is you driving??
They are only leggally compelled to if you opt to go to court.
They have no obligation to help you find out who was driving.
Crazy isn't it.
However you only have to take reasonable steps to find out who was driving.[/quote]
Suggest you write asking for photos anyway, since if you decide to go down the non-signing route then at least you can produce evidence in court of taking reasonable steps to find out who was driving.
If I don't get photo's, I wouldn't sign anything. That is a very good legal argument. Don't admit to something you may not have done. When in court, you can point out to the beak that you requested the pics, but were refused - hence you didn't know what to put on the ID request. Therefore Police refusal to issue photos = A Good Thing for evading prosecution!!
Maybe this is the Police way of letting you off the hook by very subtle means?
sort of two fingers up to CPS ?????
C
Maybe this is the Police way of letting you off the hook by very subtle means?
sort of two fingers up to CPS ????? C
She's not in a mess at all. Send back the NIPS unsigned. The worst that can happen is she gets done for 'failing to identify the driver' at 3 points per pop.
She will actually get a bit of entertainment back from the plods, but just ignore it and they go away.... After all they are far too busy with muggers (apart from the talivans), burglars and drunk Police superintendants (or whatever rank they are) to be bothered with speeders.
Not.
She will actually get a bit of entertainment back from the plods, but just ignore it and they go away.... After all they are far too busy with muggers (apart from the talivans), burglars and drunk Police superintendants (or whatever rank they are) to be bothered with speeders.
Not.
Don't forget that there is a separate offence of failing to complete and return the NIP, except where you have taken all reasonable steps to identify the driver and you have not been able to do so. So a letter stating that a number of people use the car and that you can't be sure - could you see the 'photo to aid identification?
If they refuse then it bolsters your argument that you tried.
If they refuse then it bolsters your argument that you tried.
Slightly O/T, but maybe not as you both drive the same cars?
I've heard (and this guy has managed to get away with it a while ago apparently) that you do nothing untill you receive a summons. On the day of the hearing you arrive at the court (acting slightly suprised
). Basically the sp was that mrX had never received any prior notifications of the offence, and consequently as it was so long ago - how could he possibly remember the driver of the vehicle. The catch is though, that he is abroad quite often, has 2 addresses in the UK. He & his wife are insured for both vehicles and he also has a handiman who sometimes drives the car(s).
I'm a bit sceptical as to whether this would work bearing in mind the hoo ha over not signing NIP's etc... but I s'pose it's food for thought & hopefully someone may be able to shed a little more light on the technicalities of this scenario
Y
I've heard (and this guy has managed to get away with it a while ago apparently) that you do nothing untill you receive a summons. On the day of the hearing you arrive at the court (acting slightly suprised
). Basically the sp was that mrX had never received any prior notifications of the offence, and consequently as it was so long ago - how could he possibly remember the driver of the vehicle. The catch is though, that he is abroad quite often, has 2 addresses in the UK. He & his wife are insured for both vehicles and he also has a handiman who sometimes drives the car(s). I'm a bit sceptical as to whether this would work bearing in mind the hoo ha over not signing NIP's etc... but I s'pose it's food for thought & hopefully someone may be able to shed a little more light on the technicalities of this scenario
Y
Yoda,
Beware, the Courts are getting wise to this. It's similar to people being arrested for failing to appear in relation to a summons. They are asked to sign a declaration stating that they genuinely have no knowledge of a summons until arrested. The wording of the declaration leaves the signatory in no doubt that making a false declaration may render them liable to prosecution for wilfully misleading a Court. In my previous life a a Central London Trafpol I saw several people sent down for 6 months+ for what the Magistrates believe is taking the P out of the system!!
RDHawkins.. time to have a word with the Mrs.. buy her a buspass for 1 month and ban her from using either the runaround or the TVR.. ask how she would like it for 12 mths. If she is persistently getting SP30s she is a danger, both to herself and others..SP30 is seen as much more dangerous than SP70 due to the potential for carnage. Read the Riot Act before it's too late!!
Beware, the Courts are getting wise to this. It's similar to people being arrested for failing to appear in relation to a summons. They are asked to sign a declaration stating that they genuinely have no knowledge of a summons until arrested. The wording of the declaration leaves the signatory in no doubt that making a false declaration may render them liable to prosecution for wilfully misleading a Court. In my previous life a a Central London Trafpol I saw several people sent down for 6 months+ for what the Magistrates believe is taking the P out of the system!!
RDHawkins.. time to have a word with the Mrs.. buy her a buspass for 1 month and ban her from using either the runaround or the TVR.. ask how she would like it for 12 mths. If she is persistently getting SP30s she is a danger, both to herself and others..SP30 is seen as much more dangerous than SP70 due to the potential for carnage. Read the Riot Act before it's too late!!
todiddly said:
Yoda,
Beware, the Courts are getting wise to this. It's similar to people being arrested for failing to appear in relation to a summons. They are asked to sign a declaration stating that they genuinely have no knowledge of a summons until arrested. The wording of the declaration leaves the signatory in no doubt that making a false declaration may render them liable to prosecution for wilfully misleading a Court. In my previous life a a Central London Trafpol I saw several people sent down for 6 months+ for what the Magistrates believe is taking the P out of the system!!
But surely they would need to provide proof of delivery, not just posting for a prosecution for perjury/wilfully misleading the court to succeed.
A quick question - Is perjury/misleading the court a civil or criminal offence?
todiddly said:
Loads of legal arguments about proof of delivery; they are normally sent recorded delivery.
Perjury is definetly a criminal offence, just ask Jonathon Aitken or Jeffrey Archer
They are not sent recorded delivery.
First class post, personally or left with a person at the last known address is the method accepted and allowed by the courts.
Proof of delivery is recorded on the self carbonated copy of the form by the person that posts or delivers it. This is attached to the prosecution file if the alleged offender disputes service of the NIP.
Recorded delivery does not guarantee that the letter is received by the person it is addressed to. Even my children sign for Rec Delievry stuff and they cannot even drive yet!
kevinday said:
A quick question - Is perjury/misleading the court a civil or criminal offence?
Perjury is taking an oath in front of a court and then lying about your evidence.
If you are found out by contradicting evidence or someone else bubbles you up, then seroious consequences may result.
It is a criminal offence and applies in any court whether civil or criminal.
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