Surely there must be some mistake....
Discussion
Having looked at the website about the fuel protests i noticed this quote on there from this MP:-
Thanks for taking the trouble to email me with your thoughts about this.
Whilst I appreciate what you say, I must remind you that the cost of
motoring has been declining by 1 to 1.5% per year in real terms over the
last 10 years.
Best wishes,
Michael
Rt Hon Michael Meacher MP
House of Commons
020 7219 6461
Now.... unless i have been in a coma for the last decade.... i am wondering how on earth this MP arrived at this idea of a declining cost of motoring...
Does 'in real terms' really mean 'in unreal terms' or 'according to some figures given to a team of 900 civil servants to process and manipulate for 100 hours we have concluded that.....?
It seems totally insane to me!
Thanks for taking the trouble to email me with your thoughts about this.
Whilst I appreciate what you say, I must remind you that the cost of
motoring has been declining by 1 to 1.5% per year in real terms over the
last 10 years.
Best wishes,
Michael
Rt Hon Michael Meacher MP
House of Commons
020 7219 6461
Now.... unless i have been in a coma for the last decade.... i am wondering how on earth this MP arrived at this idea of a declining cost of motoring...
Does 'in real terms' really mean 'in unreal terms' or 'according to some figures given to a team of 900 civil servants to process and manipulate for 100 hours we have concluded that.....?
It seems totally insane to me!
Well, there have been increases in the price of oil, and so increases in the price of fuel, and increases in the duty on fuel, we all know about that, and increases in vehicle excise duty of course, but that's about it. Whilst they have been rocketing, it's still not been enough to offset the things that have gone down in motoring, cars are just so much cheaper than they were say 10-15 years ago, significantly so, and that alone has made up the bulk of the decrease in motoring costs in real terms, not to mention the maintenance and repairs, there have been some huge decreases there over the last 10 years too. You may be surprised to learn that a lot of this was down to Daewoo when they came to the UK in 1995. to quote Quentin Wilson "The average motorist who couldn't give a hoot about Daewoo, owes them a great debt of gratitude nonetheless". Shame they went tits up, but hey ho!
Fuel & tax discs up, everything else, down.
Strange, but true, and that is in no way a support of this government.
Fuel & tax discs up, everything else, down.
Strange, but true, and that is in no way a support of this government.
Edited by Balmoral Green on Monday 26th May 16:20
In 'real' terms the cost to run my e34 M5s has increased by 40% - between 2000 and 2008.
Car was made 18 years ago, so there is no 'saving' from buying a new one at 'bargain' prices - but cost £44,000 (new e60 M5 costs £65,000)
Fuel has gone up from 77p/litre (in 2000) to 112p/litre (a rise of 50%).
Have only had an M5 for 7 years, but the insurance has stayed about the same (fluctuating between £550 & £750).
BMW labour charges are now £120/hour, were £86/hr in 2000 (a rise of 30%).
Road tax has gone up from £125 to £185 (a rise of 50%).
Overall my annual costs have gone from £6200 to £8900 (assuming 20,000 miles a year @ 20mpg and servicing every 5,000 miles) - or an increase of 42%. My wages have not gone up that much in 8 years (more like 10%).
The only way you're saving money in 'real terms' is if you're buying a new car every year.
Car was made 18 years ago, so there is no 'saving' from buying a new one at 'bargain' prices - but cost £44,000 (new e60 M5 costs £65,000)
Fuel has gone up from 77p/litre (in 2000) to 112p/litre (a rise of 50%).
Have only had an M5 for 7 years, but the insurance has stayed about the same (fluctuating between £550 & £750).
BMW labour charges are now £120/hour, were £86/hr in 2000 (a rise of 30%).
Road tax has gone up from £125 to £185 (a rise of 50%).
Overall my annual costs have gone from £6200 to £8900 (assuming 20,000 miles a year @ 20mpg and servicing every 5,000 miles) - or an increase of 42%. My wages have not gone up that much in 8 years (more like 10%).
The only way you're saving money in 'real terms' is if you're buying a new car every year.
Edited by mmm-five on Monday 26th May 17:59
mmm-five said:
Car was made 18 years ago...cost £44,000 (new e60 M5 costs £65,000)
Well, there you go, £44,000 is £75,240 in today's money, allowing for inflation, so an M5 is ten grand cheaper than it was 18 years ago.But you're quite right, this is only relevant if you buy new cars on a regular change cycle. If you're running an older car, all your costs are centred around fuel and tax more or less, not the initial purchase, and they've all gone up.
Edited by Balmoral Green on Monday 26th May 17:15
kwitts are so out of touch with what is actually going on, its unreal!
Balmoral Green said:
Well, there have been increases in the price of oil, and so increases in the price of fuel, and increases in the duty on fuel, we all know about that, and increases in vehicle excise duty of course, but that's about it. Whilst they have been rocketing, it's still not been enough to offset the things that have gone down in motoring, cars are just so much cheaper than they were say 10-15 years ago, significantly so, and that alone has made up the bulk of the decrease in motoring costs in real terms, not to mention the maintenance and repairs, there have been some huge decreases there over the last 10 years too. You may be surprised to learn that a lot of this was down to Daewoo when they came to the UK in 1995. to quote Quentin Wilson "The average motorist who couldn't give a hoot about Daewoo, owes them a great debt of gratitude nonetheless". Shame they went tits up, but hey ho!
Fuel & tax discs up, everything else, down.
Strange, but true, and that is in no way a support of this government.
Mmmm, I am not sure that fuel and Road tax are the only increases. The price of parts, engine oil and labour for servicing have gone up. Up to over £100 per hour in many main dealers of German brands. Car insurance is certainly higher since the industry decided it wouldn't subsidise it from other markets they do business in. That coupled with the increase in personal injury claims from motor polices has sent premiums skywards. Fuel & tax discs up, everything else, down.
Strange, but true, and that is in no way a support of this government.
Edited by Balmoral Green on Monday 26th May 16:20
If you factor in speeding fines, parking tickets, congestion and tolls. The price of parking as well.... gone are the days of a few pieces of silver in the ashtray to paying with £20 notes and credit cards.
There might be a case for the price of cars coming down relevant to 10 or 15 years ago, however there is a school of thought that this should not feature in the figure the MP is quoting. People will often buy a car purely on price. One of the biggest deciding factors of a car purchase is price. People will say 'I have nine grand to spend' which is a huge deciding factor in what they buy. Wether that gets them a better car now relative to 10 years ago is irrelevant. They will still spend the same amount. Those that earn higher will simply spend more on the car, getting a newer or better model.
Modern cars are so full of technology that out of warranty repairs are often hugely expensive these days compared to in the past.
Which ever way you look at it the motorist is getting screwed, and tighter every year.
Its a sad fact of life if you vote them in you get what you get, SCREWED. So what do we do? don't vote.
Lets look at the hard facts MPs have been robbing the public purse and screwing the system since the days going back to the Sheriffh of Nottingham when he was robbing the poor to feed the greedy rich.
What a s**t hole this land of ours has become.
Lets look at the hard facts MPs have been robbing the public purse and screwing the system since the days going back to the Sheriffh of Nottingham when he was robbing the poor to feed the greedy rich.
What a s**t hole this land of ours has become.
meacher. this was the dumwit that came out against multiple home owners when he had a dozen himself. he lives as far away from the real world as anyone i've ever met. first class idiot who gets elected in a town he rarely spends time in. but then until very recently if a dog stood in oldham with a labour roset he'd get in.
mmm-five said:
The only way you're saving money in 'real terms' is if you're buying a new car every year.
Totally - statistics can be made to say anything you want, they have found a certain group of motorist is saving money, but are spinning the facts and being economical with the truth (no surprise)How many people buy a new car outright every year? very few.
Vast majority of road users buy second hand cars every few years, and in that segment of the market, people tend to spend about the same amount everytime they change.
Instead of looking at "car ownership costs", they should be focusing on "car running costs" because there is a massive difference between the two.
Balmoral Green said:
mmm-five said:
Car was made 18 years ago...cost £44,000 (new e60 M5 costs £65,000)
Well, there you go, £44,000 is £75,240 in today's money, allowing for inflation, so an M5 is ten grand cheaper than it was 18 years ago.But you're quite right, this is only relevant if you buy new cars on a regular change cycle. If you're running an older car, all your costs are centred around fuel and tax more or less, not the initial purchase, and they've all gone up.
Very true BG, but it's not like the government have had an affect on the price drop of a car. That's competition, and it's frankly appalling that an MP feels justified to comment on such a matter.
To be honest, I'm surprised the VAT rate hasn't gone up....
In real terms it means that it is compared with the inflation rate and discounted by it.
Everything moves with inflation. Food, house prices, rents, salaries etc. If the average annual inflation rates for the last 10 years was 2.5% then if 1 litre of fuel cost 1 pound 10 years ago now it should cost 1.24 pounds (and inflation in the UK has been higher than 2.5%. For example this year it is at 4.2%).
Everything else went up. Look at the cost of the M5? Your house? Has it gone up or down?
So in "real" terms the cost of motoring has not gone up.
Everything moves with inflation. Food, house prices, rents, salaries etc. If the average annual inflation rates for the last 10 years was 2.5% then if 1 litre of fuel cost 1 pound 10 years ago now it should cost 1.24 pounds (and inflation in the UK has been higher than 2.5%. For example this year it is at 4.2%).
Everything else went up. Look at the cost of the M5? Your house? Has it gone up or down?
So in "real" terms the cost of motoring has not gone up.
911teo said:
If the average annual inflation rates for the last 10 years was 2.5% then if 1 litre of fuel cost 1 pound 10 years ago now it should cost 1.24 pounds (and inflation in the UK has been higher than 2.5%. For example this year it is at 4.2%).
Have to question your maths.starting at £1 a litre and with average inflation of 2.5%, a litre of fuel would now cost £1.28. If inflation were really 4.2% then that £1 would now be £1.51...
SEN 18 said:
Its a sad fact of life if you vote them in you get what you get, SCREWED. So what do we do? don't vote.
Lets look at the hard facts MPs have been robbing the public purse and screwing the system since the days going back to the Sheriffh of Nottingham when he was robbing the poor to feed the greedy rich.
What a s**t hole this land of ours has become.
You are quoting one of my posts, you know. Sadly I don't think there is a way back for the UK. Lets look at the hard facts MPs have been robbing the public purse and screwing the system since the days going back to the Sheriffh of Nottingham when he was robbing the poor to feed the greedy rich.
What a s**t hole this land of ours has become.
There's noone left for them to rob, and we don't have natural resources on the scale we need, they have sold off the family silver, and the family gold, privatised (ie flogged off to the highest bidder) all our utilities, (The Scottish Gas Distribution Network is owned by a Swedish Teachers Pension Fund, for example), built schools and hospitals through PFI/PPP (ie on the never never, at a horrific cost which has not yet been fully identified) robbed the pension funds, connived with 'The City' to fleece the punters, made savings valueless, looted the value of houses to inflate a consumer led economy, diverted 'Road Tax' and 'National Insurance' to prop up a huge public sector.
Who can they screw next? They think that they can raise taxes to unprecedented levels, provided that they attach an environmental tag to them, but we know the game too well now and we don't trust them. Climate Change. Crap. All it is, is 'The End of the World is Nigh', for the modern era. They think that they can turn the motorist over, yet again, but they have been to the well to often, and they are finding peoples ultimate limits.
As for Michael Meacher, like them all nowadays, they think that if they tell a barefaced lie with sufficient confidence it will be accepted as fact. Like Arthur Scargill used to do.
Politicians are valueless scum.
Edited by cardigankid on Wednesday 28th May 13:47
Yep that is the e-mail he sent to me, i nearly fell off my chair when i read it.
i replied to him stating that he must be living in cloud cookoo land if he thinks that the cost of motoring has gone down. I asked him did he have the figures to back this up
Needless to say i never got a reply!!!!
i replied to him stating that he must be living in cloud cookoo land if he thinks that the cost of motoring has gone down. I asked him did he have the figures to back this up
Needless to say i never got a reply!!!!
I've been thinking about this, and at least one answer is obvious. Graverobbing.
What they will do, Tories or Labour, will be to hold or increase the real rate of Inheritance Tax. They will gamble on the propensity of Baby-Boomers, first to believe they are going to live forever, and second not to feel like giving up to their kids or anyone else, money they have earned themselves. So they will by default give it to HMRC.
Anybody else on here got any ideas. If you were a British politician, who would you rob now? As a starting point, you have to ask yourself, like any professional criminal, who has got the cash available to be stolen.
What they will do, Tories or Labour, will be to hold or increase the real rate of Inheritance Tax. They will gamble on the propensity of Baby-Boomers, first to believe they are going to live forever, and second not to feel like giving up to their kids or anyone else, money they have earned themselves. So they will by default give it to HMRC.
Anybody else on here got any ideas. If you were a British politician, who would you rob now? As a starting point, you have to ask yourself, like any professional criminal, who has got the cash available to be stolen.
cardigankid said:
I've been thinking about this, and at least one answer is obvious. Graverobbing.
What they will do, Tories or Labour, will be to hold or increase the real rate of Inheritance Tax. They will gamble on the propensity of Baby-Boomers, first to believe they are going to live forever, and second not to feel like giving up to their kids or anyone else, money they have earned themselves. So they will by default give it to HMRC.
Anybody else on here got any ideas. If you were a British politician, who would you rob now? As a starting point, you have to ask yourself, like any professional criminal, who has got the cash available to be stolen.
Rather alarmingly, I think you are correct! And we thought the Vikings were bad when it came to rape & pillage!!!!!!What they will do, Tories or Labour, will be to hold or increase the real rate of Inheritance Tax. They will gamble on the propensity of Baby-Boomers, first to believe they are going to live forever, and second not to feel like giving up to their kids or anyone else, money they have earned themselves. So they will by default give it to HMRC.
Anybody else on here got any ideas. If you were a British politician, who would you rob now? As a starting point, you have to ask yourself, like any professional criminal, who has got the cash available to be stolen.
cardigankid said:
I've been thinking about this, and at least one answer is obvious. Graverobbing.
What they will do, Tories or Labour, will be to hold or increase the real rate of Inheritance Tax. They will gamble on the propensity of Baby-Boomers, first to believe they are going to live forever, and second not to feel like giving up to their kids or anyone else, money they have earned themselves. So they will by default give it to HMRC.
Anybody else on here got any ideas. If you were a British politician, who would you rob now? As a starting point, you have to ask yourself, like any professional criminal, who has got the cash available to be stolen.
I dont know. I agree with a lot of what you say. Equally, if you have a good accountant \ lawyer, there are ways and means of arranging your affairs legally, so that you can minimise the impact of these thieving scum.What they will do, Tories or Labour, will be to hold or increase the real rate of Inheritance Tax. They will gamble on the propensity of Baby-Boomers, first to believe they are going to live forever, and second not to feel like giving up to their kids or anyone else, money they have earned themselves. So they will by default give it to HMRC.
Anybody else on here got any ideas. If you were a British politician, who would you rob now? As a starting point, you have to ask yourself, like any professional criminal, who has got the cash available to be stolen.
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