I think ive made a friend.
Discussion
As i said on general gassing, i contacted about 20 scamera partnerships the other night. This one has just got to be the best reply ive had so far. I sincerely mean it. This guys is just so "nice" about it and makes a good argument.
Read it and decide for yourself. Oh, sorry in advance for the huge length of this one...(ooerr missus)
From: "Philip Gwynne"
To:
Subject: Your camera websote comments...
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 12:16:33 +0100
Dear *****,
Thank you for your query to the West Yorkshire Casualty Reduction
Partnership. I WILL be absolutely and completely honest with you...
though I
suspect you may not believe/want to hear an honest reply. Prove me
wrong...
Yes - we do not seek to catch speeding motorists... that's the job of
the
police, not the West Yorkshire Casualty Reduction Partnership
"We just don't want you to speed in the first place"... yes, but,
that's not
quite what we're about. ..
The West Yorkshire Casualty Reduction Partnership is a
legally-constituted
partnership of the five metropolitan district councils of Bradford,
Calderdale, Kirklees, Leeds and Wakefield. We are tasked by government
to
reduce the number of crashes, casualties and fatalities on West
Yorkshire
roads. The government has ambitions for specific percentage reductions
within specific sets of road user groups (e.g. drivers, passengers,
cyclists, powered, two-wheel riders etc., and we have responsibility to
try
and meet or exceed those percentages.
We do this by installing road safety improvement measures at the worst
casualty hot spots. These measures are for all road users and include,
for
example, improved crossings outside schools, better parking, pedestrian
refuges, wider footpaths, installation of speed control safety cameras,
mobile police speed camera patrols, etc etc.
In short, the West Yorkshire Casualty Reduction Partnership is
dedicated to
preserving life and limb of all road users and passing on the resulting
benefits to the community at large
So...in fact... what we don't want you to do "in the first place" is
become
a road casualty.
We'll try other solutions/remedies to try and reduce/prevent casualties
BEFORE we install speed control safety cameras. But when you bear in
mind
that speed is a contributory factor to over a third of all casualties
on
West Yorkshire Roads, you'll understand why cameras are so important in
the
worst casualty hotspots... and why they are so effective in helping
encourage motorist to observe limits and thereby make the roads safer
for
everyone, especially themselves.
As for your comment about parading with a placard next to a mobile
patrol: I
say: Go for it! The mobile crew would probably be grateful for your
help.
Mobile patrols operate to strict government visibility guidelines so
that
they can be seen by approaching motorists, as well as see approaching
motorists.
They put out signs in advance of their vehicle to advise motorists that
they
are subject to a safety camera scrutiny but - let's be honest - the
signs
are not always easy to see ...and we do get the occasional complaint
via the
website that vans did not observe the visibility rules...so - frankly -
the
crew would probably be grateful for your help in ensuring that
approaching
motorists "couldn't miss" seeing the van!
I suggest you talk to the crew first, though, before you take up your
position (I promise you, they're decent human beings just like you -
they
don't bite!!) to make sure you won't be breaching any obscure by-laws
or
getting accidentally zapped by a laser.
I honestly can't see that you'd be charged with obstruction but I guess
it
depends upon where you are, what you're doing, how big your placard is,
etc... like I say, chat to the guys in the van first and they'll help
you.
Because - yes - your idea probably would be a hell of a lot more
effective
at slowing drivers down that the existing (legally binding)
requirements!
I'm obliged to warn you however, that mobile patrols are sometimes the
subject of abuse from passing motorists (despite the fact that they're
only
there to try and help motorists avoid crashes in a proven accident
"black
spot") so if you do decide to help us out by walking up an down with a
placard, you may be subjected to abuse and the occasional hurled
missile
from a passing car.
Finally, at the risk of seriously disappointing you, I do
compliment
you upon getting in touch with your suggestion. We are always delighted
to
hear from concerned citizens like you, who recognise that the purpose
of
speed control safety cameras is to save lives and reduce the number of
casualties on our roads.
As a small token of appreciation, please accept, with our compliments,
a
copy of our motorists' guide, "7 Simple Steps That Will GUARANTEE
You'll
Never Exceed The Speed Limit!"
As a conscientious motorist, you probably already know - and are doing
-
some, most or even all of the "7 steps". Sometimes, though, it's
helpful to
have a gentle reminder, however experienced a motorist we may be.
That's why the West Yorkshire Casualty Reduction Partnership has
produced
this simple guide - to remind drivers of some of the basics of speed
control.... things that were learned when we first learned to drive....
but
because they are basic, they tend to get forgotten or neglected as we
cope
with the ever-increasing challenge and stress of getting about on our
crowded and busy roads.
<>
If we may, we'd like to contact you again from time to time to inform
you
about other safety camera initiatives... and if you have any other
concerns,
questions or comments in the meantime, please do not hesitate to
contact me,
or visit our website www.safetycameraswestyorkshire.com
<www.safeytycameraswestyorkshire.com>
Best wishes,
Philip J Gwynne
PR Manager, West Yorkshire Safety Cameras
(01274) 437420
Heres the "booklet" they attached..(how nice of them).
“7 Simple Tips That Will ‘GUARANTEE’ You’ll Never
Exceed The Speed Limit!”
Respect the speed limit. Speed limits are there to keep people safe… local communities, people travelling through, young people, old people, families - you!
Watch out for the speed limit signs. On familiar roads, it’s common to “stop noticing” traffic signs. On unfamiliar roads, simply finding our way may divert our attention. Make it a habit to look out for the limits. Don’t assume. Remember, also, that speed limits sometimes change: neighbourhoods that used to be 30mph are reduced to 20mph; 50mph limits can be extended into former de-restricted zones, and so on. Temporary speed limits are often imposed at road works. Whatever the speed limit normally is, the temporary limit is the one that applies. On motorways, temporary limits are displayed on the matrix signs in the central reservation and must be observed.
Assume the limit is 30 in built up areas. All roads in West Yorkshire are signed in accordance with the Highway Code, which also states “streetlights usually mean that there is a 30mph limit unless there are signs showing another limit”. If the road isn’t 30mph, you will find “repeater” signs to tell you the speed limit. Not knowing the speed limit - or saying you couldn’t find/see a speed limit sign - won’t get you off a speeding fine. If in doubt, stick to 30mph or under.
Check your speed regularly. Many people can’t believe they were caught speeding… are convinced they were travelling within the limit… simply because they didn’t notice their speed had crept up. They were travelling at the speed they usually drive at… or at the same speed “everyone else” was driving at…. or because they felt that the road conditions were suitable to drive at a higher speed… or because they felt harassed by other drivers to go little faster…or because they made a split-second decision to speed up “to get out of trouble”…or because they were late for an appointment…or because their attention wandered momentarily… or because of a score of other perfectly “ordinary” and believable reasons. They did not speed in order to flout the law. Unfortunately, the courts don’t make allowances. Speeding is speeding. Magistrates may take into consideration exceptional circumstances… but they’d have to be very exceptional to avoid the fixed penalty. Best way to avoid letting your speed unintentionally creep up is: Check your speed as often as you check your mirror.
“7 Simple Tips That Will ‘GUARANTEE’ You’ll Never
Exceed The Speed Limit!”
Allow extra time to get there. We all lead busy lives, and it’s a lot less stressful to leave 10 minutes sooner to get to an appointment/pick the kids up from school/ get the shopping done, etc. than dashing out at the last minute only to end up rushing between traffic queues! When you know you’ll be driving, build in “buffer zones” of 10-15 minutes, or longer, around departures times. In addition, allow an extra 10-15 minutes for short journeys (that would normally take 30mts-1hr), half-an-hour extra for medium journeys (1hr-2hr) and an hour for journeys over 2hours, to allow for unexpected delays, traffic jams, roadworks, looking for a parking space, etc. Better to arrive early and have time for coffee, than arrive late, flustered, anxious…and having been ‘clocked’ for speeding. It won’t kill you to be late… but it just might, if you’re in too much of a hurry.
Don’t be bullied by other motorists. Sometimes “everyone else” is travelling above the limit and it’s understandable to feel that it might be dangerous not to do the same. Or we may be shouted at or abused by other motorists for “holding them up”. Just because they want to commit a crime by breaking speed limits is no reason for us to do the same. Sometimes, though, it’s “easier said than done” to remain calm, composed and on the right side of the speed limit if you’ve got some speed-freak dangerous idiot up your back bumper, flashing his lights, honking his horn and waving two fingers at you to get a move on. But “sod’s law” says that.. if you speed up to get out of his way… you will be the one caught for speeding! Don’t do it.
Remember IT’S A CRIME to break the speed limit!
Heres the second email i sent followed by the one recieved afterwards.
-----Original Message-----
From:
Sent: 21 August 2003 13:05
To: Philip Gwynne
Subject: Re: Your camera websote comments...
Hi there.
Thanks very much for your pretty much overwhelmingly
positive response!
Totally unexpected as it is.
Ill take your suggestions under advisement though, as
id really not wish to be arrested for obstruction!!
Id go along with pretty much all of what youve said,
but i must, (and i intend no hostility) take you to
task on this part of your response, hopefully youll
see why when ive finished this reply.
Quoted from your response;" But when you bear in
mind
that speed is a contributory factor to over a third of
all casualties"
The one third figure you quote is, I presume, taken
from the Traffic Research Laboratory report titled TRL
323. The report broke down accident causation into a
number of categories and has been subject to such
damaging criticism that it is seldom now used to
support the speed kills argument. It should be noted
that excessive speed is given it's own separate code
within the report and this figure is only 7.3%, not
33% or one third.
Ive contacted the Transport Research Laboratory and
asked them specific questions, to which they seem
unable to give an adequate response.
Eg. " Please supply figures/statistics that give the
percentage of accidents initiated by speed alone".
TRL responded thus;" There are no figures for speed as
the initiator in crashes"........ Interesting
statement i thought.
Road safety is sadly becoming all about speed and
money. Of course, it's about so much more than that.
Unless the authorities tackle the many causes of
accidents, road safety won't improve. The most
dramatic falls in British road deaths occurred before
speed cameras were in widespread use. From their
introduction in the early 1990s, reductions in road
deaths gradually stalled. As the numbers of speed
cameras have ballooned, this trend has become more
marked.
Ive noticed that joyriders, drunks, illegal drivers
who have fatal rta's while being (rightly) persued by
police, these figures are added into the KSI's for a
road. This cannot be condoned, and is a distortion of
the true safety figures for a stretch of road.
Driver standards are pretty poor at the moment.
I cannot see that having a driver concentrating on his
speedo or looking out for cameras, is anything more
than folly.
It takes 0.8 seconds to do a speedo check. If a driver
checks his speedo 15 times every minute, then for
every minute, his attention is diverted away from the
road for a minimum of 12 seconds. On a 100 minute
journey thatd be 120 seconds, or 2 whole minutes
(conservative) in which he may as well have his eyes
closed.
Id suggest that far from fining and giving points to
drivers "speeding", that they instead HAD to attend an
Advanced Driver course that THEY pay for, youd then
see a drop in accidents for sure, and no need for any
speed cameras or speed camera vans either.
However, i cant see you guys supporting such an idea,
itd be like turkeys voting for Xmas.
I hope that you can take on board what ive
suggested/commented on and taken it in good spirit,
for that is very much the spirit in which it was
intended.
Regards.
From: "Philip Gwynne" |
To:
Subject: RE: Your camera website comments...
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 13:52:25 +0100
Dear *****(or ****, if you prefer!)
Thank you very much for your prompt response. I do take your comments
in the
spirit they are offered, as I'm always "open" to honest and
conscientious
motorists like you who want to contribute meaningfully to the safety
cameras
debate... whether you/they agree with our position or not! So... keep
the
comments coming!!
If I may, I'd like to reply to a couple of your points.
The one-third figure quoted is taken from West Yorkshire's own
statistics,
but is, of necessity, modelled on the TRL's analysis, All safety camera
partnerships in the UK use the same "measure", which is the one that
the
government uses to measure casualty statistics and causation factors,
and to
determine finding levels for highways/road safety programmes.
As you rightly observe, one of the key measurement criteria is KSI,
which
include all causation factors, not just speeding. The reason is that
government prefers to err on the side of having excuses to take
remedial
action, rather than being accused of seeking excuses not to do so...
or, to
put it another way, of "allowing" deaths and casualties to happen
through
inertia or inaction.
I know it's not the most accurate or true measurement of a casualty
causation profile but until someone smarter than us comes up with a
better
alternative, it's the only measure we have so it's the one we must work
with.
As you might expect, I don't buy the old (well-worn) argument about
motorists being fixated on their speedo or looking out for cameras.
1. The law says (i.e. magistrates courts) that motorists shouldn't need
to be reminded to drive legally, within the speed limits. And they
should
make sure they know what the speed limit is. Therefore, no "additional
burden" is required to drive legally.
2. Motorists don't complain about the time or attention it takes to
check the rear view mirrors... or change radio channels... or turn over
a
cassette tape... or (horror of horrors!) talk on a mobile phone... or
chat
to their passengers... or turn round and check the kids are alright in
the
back... or read roadside destination/direction signs... or look out for
the
name of the street they need or...or... or... You get the point!
If a motorist is so fixated on the speedo and looking out for cameras
that
their attention is not on the road ahead, I'd have to question whether
they're fit to be behind the wheel in the first place!
Anyway, thanks again for your comments. I've taken the liberty of
including
you on the list of people who receive our free advance information and
news
service about safety camera activities... and I hope you'll continue to
visit our website.
Best wishes.
Philip J Gwynne
PR Manager, West Yorkshire Safety Cameras
(01274) 437420
Sorry about the length of these guys, but it does make for interesting reading...(well i think it does..
)
Read it and decide for yourself. Oh, sorry in advance for the huge length of this one...(ooerr missus)
From: "Philip Gwynne"
To:
Subject: Your camera websote comments...
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 12:16:33 +0100
Dear *****,
Thank you for your query to the West Yorkshire Casualty Reduction
Partnership. I WILL be absolutely and completely honest with you...
though I
suspect you may not believe/want to hear an honest reply. Prove me
wrong...
Yes - we do not seek to catch speeding motorists... that's the job of
the
police, not the West Yorkshire Casualty Reduction Partnership
"We just don't want you to speed in the first place"... yes, but,
that's not
quite what we're about. ..
The West Yorkshire Casualty Reduction Partnership is a
legally-constituted
partnership of the five metropolitan district councils of Bradford,
Calderdale, Kirklees, Leeds and Wakefield. We are tasked by government
to
reduce the number of crashes, casualties and fatalities on West
Yorkshire
roads. The government has ambitions for specific percentage reductions
within specific sets of road user groups (e.g. drivers, passengers,
cyclists, powered, two-wheel riders etc., and we have responsibility to
try
and meet or exceed those percentages.
We do this by installing road safety improvement measures at the worst
casualty hot spots. These measures are for all road users and include,
for
example, improved crossings outside schools, better parking, pedestrian
refuges, wider footpaths, installation of speed control safety cameras,
mobile police speed camera patrols, etc etc.
In short, the West Yorkshire Casualty Reduction Partnership is
dedicated to
preserving life and limb of all road users and passing on the resulting
benefits to the community at large
So...in fact... what we don't want you to do "in the first place" is
become
a road casualty.
We'll try other solutions/remedies to try and reduce/prevent casualties
BEFORE we install speed control safety cameras. But when you bear in
mind
that speed is a contributory factor to over a third of all casualties
on
West Yorkshire Roads, you'll understand why cameras are so important in
the
worst casualty hotspots... and why they are so effective in helping
encourage motorist to observe limits and thereby make the roads safer
for
everyone, especially themselves.
As for your comment about parading with a placard next to a mobile
patrol: I
say: Go for it! The mobile crew would probably be grateful for your
help.
Mobile patrols operate to strict government visibility guidelines so
that
they can be seen by approaching motorists, as well as see approaching
motorists.
They put out signs in advance of their vehicle to advise motorists that
they
are subject to a safety camera scrutiny but - let's be honest - the
signs
are not always easy to see ...and we do get the occasional complaint
via the
website that vans did not observe the visibility rules...so - frankly -
the
crew would probably be grateful for your help in ensuring that
approaching
motorists "couldn't miss" seeing the van!
I suggest you talk to the crew first, though, before you take up your
position (I promise you, they're decent human beings just like you -
they
don't bite!!) to make sure you won't be breaching any obscure by-laws
or
getting accidentally zapped by a laser.
I honestly can't see that you'd be charged with obstruction but I guess
it
depends upon where you are, what you're doing, how big your placard is,
etc... like I say, chat to the guys in the van first and they'll help
you.
Because - yes - your idea probably would be a hell of a lot more
effective
at slowing drivers down that the existing (legally binding)
requirements!
I'm obliged to warn you however, that mobile patrols are sometimes the
subject of abuse from passing motorists (despite the fact that they're
only
there to try and help motorists avoid crashes in a proven accident
"black
spot") so if you do decide to help us out by walking up an down with a
placard, you may be subjected to abuse and the occasional hurled
missile
from a passing car.
Finally, at the risk of seriously disappointing you, I do
compliment
you upon getting in touch with your suggestion. We are always delighted
to
hear from concerned citizens like you, who recognise that the purpose
of
speed control safety cameras is to save lives and reduce the number of
casualties on our roads.
As a small token of appreciation, please accept, with our compliments,
a
copy of our motorists' guide, "7 Simple Steps That Will GUARANTEE
You'll
Never Exceed The Speed Limit!"
As a conscientious motorist, you probably already know - and are doing
-
some, most or even all of the "7 steps". Sometimes, though, it's
helpful to
have a gentle reminder, however experienced a motorist we may be.
That's why the West Yorkshire Casualty Reduction Partnership has
produced
this simple guide - to remind drivers of some of the basics of speed
control.... things that were learned when we first learned to drive....
but
because they are basic, they tend to get forgotten or neglected as we
cope
with the ever-increasing challenge and stress of getting about on our
crowded and busy roads.
<
If we may, we'd like to contact you again from time to time to inform
you
about other safety camera initiatives... and if you have any other
concerns,
questions or comments in the meantime, please do not hesitate to
contact me,
or visit our website www.safetycameraswestyorkshire.com
<www.safeytycameraswestyorkshire.com>
Best wishes,
Philip J Gwynne
PR Manager, West Yorkshire Safety Cameras
(01274) 437420
Heres the "booklet" they attached..(how nice of them).
“7 Simple Tips That Will ‘GUARANTEE’ You’ll Never
Exceed The Speed Limit!”
Respect the speed limit. Speed limits are there to keep people safe… local communities, people travelling through, young people, old people, families - you!
Watch out for the speed limit signs. On familiar roads, it’s common to “stop noticing” traffic signs. On unfamiliar roads, simply finding our way may divert our attention. Make it a habit to look out for the limits. Don’t assume. Remember, also, that speed limits sometimes change: neighbourhoods that used to be 30mph are reduced to 20mph; 50mph limits can be extended into former de-restricted zones, and so on. Temporary speed limits are often imposed at road works. Whatever the speed limit normally is, the temporary limit is the one that applies. On motorways, temporary limits are displayed on the matrix signs in the central reservation and must be observed.
Assume the limit is 30 in built up areas. All roads in West Yorkshire are signed in accordance with the Highway Code, which also states “streetlights usually mean that there is a 30mph limit unless there are signs showing another limit”. If the road isn’t 30mph, you will find “repeater” signs to tell you the speed limit. Not knowing the speed limit - or saying you couldn’t find/see a speed limit sign - won’t get you off a speeding fine. If in doubt, stick to 30mph or under.
Check your speed regularly. Many people can’t believe they were caught speeding… are convinced they were travelling within the limit… simply because they didn’t notice their speed had crept up. They were travelling at the speed they usually drive at… or at the same speed “everyone else” was driving at…. or because they felt that the road conditions were suitable to drive at a higher speed… or because they felt harassed by other drivers to go little faster…or because they made a split-second decision to speed up “to get out of trouble”…or because they were late for an appointment…or because their attention wandered momentarily… or because of a score of other perfectly “ordinary” and believable reasons. They did not speed in order to flout the law. Unfortunately, the courts don’t make allowances. Speeding is speeding. Magistrates may take into consideration exceptional circumstances… but they’d have to be very exceptional to avoid the fixed penalty. Best way to avoid letting your speed unintentionally creep up is: Check your speed as often as you check your mirror.
“7 Simple Tips That Will ‘GUARANTEE’ You’ll Never
Exceed The Speed Limit!”
Allow extra time to get there. We all lead busy lives, and it’s a lot less stressful to leave 10 minutes sooner to get to an appointment/pick the kids up from school/ get the shopping done, etc. than dashing out at the last minute only to end up rushing between traffic queues! When you know you’ll be driving, build in “buffer zones” of 10-15 minutes, or longer, around departures times. In addition, allow an extra 10-15 minutes for short journeys (that would normally take 30mts-1hr), half-an-hour extra for medium journeys (1hr-2hr) and an hour for journeys over 2hours, to allow for unexpected delays, traffic jams, roadworks, looking for a parking space, etc. Better to arrive early and have time for coffee, than arrive late, flustered, anxious…and having been ‘clocked’ for speeding. It won’t kill you to be late… but it just might, if you’re in too much of a hurry.
Don’t be bullied by other motorists. Sometimes “everyone else” is travelling above the limit and it’s understandable to feel that it might be dangerous not to do the same. Or we may be shouted at or abused by other motorists for “holding them up”. Just because they want to commit a crime by breaking speed limits is no reason for us to do the same. Sometimes, though, it’s “easier said than done” to remain calm, composed and on the right side of the speed limit if you’ve got some speed-freak dangerous idiot up your back bumper, flashing his lights, honking his horn and waving two fingers at you to get a move on. But “sod’s law” says that.. if you speed up to get out of his way… you will be the one caught for speeding! Don’t do it.
Remember IT’S A CRIME to break the speed limit!
Heres the second email i sent followed by the one recieved afterwards.
-----Original Message-----
From:
Sent: 21 August 2003 13:05
To: Philip Gwynne
Subject: Re: Your camera websote comments...
Hi there.
Thanks very much for your pretty much overwhelmingly
positive response!
Totally unexpected as it is.
Ill take your suggestions under advisement though, as
id really not wish to be arrested for obstruction!!
Id go along with pretty much all of what youve said,
but i must, (and i intend no hostility) take you to
task on this part of your response, hopefully youll
see why when ive finished this reply.
Quoted from your response;" But when you bear in
mind
that speed is a contributory factor to over a third of
all casualties"
The one third figure you quote is, I presume, taken
from the Traffic Research Laboratory report titled TRL
323. The report broke down accident causation into a
number of categories and has been subject to such
damaging criticism that it is seldom now used to
support the speed kills argument. It should be noted
that excessive speed is given it's own separate code
within the report and this figure is only 7.3%, not
33% or one third.
Ive contacted the Transport Research Laboratory and
asked them specific questions, to which they seem
unable to give an adequate response.
Eg. " Please supply figures/statistics that give the
percentage of accidents initiated by speed alone".
TRL responded thus;" There are no figures for speed as
the initiator in crashes"........ Interesting
statement i thought.
Road safety is sadly becoming all about speed and
money. Of course, it's about so much more than that.
Unless the authorities tackle the many causes of
accidents, road safety won't improve. The most
dramatic falls in British road deaths occurred before
speed cameras were in widespread use. From their
introduction in the early 1990s, reductions in road
deaths gradually stalled. As the numbers of speed
cameras have ballooned, this trend has become more
marked.
Ive noticed that joyriders, drunks, illegal drivers
who have fatal rta's while being (rightly) persued by
police, these figures are added into the KSI's for a
road. This cannot be condoned, and is a distortion of
the true safety figures for a stretch of road.
Driver standards are pretty poor at the moment.
I cannot see that having a driver concentrating on his
speedo or looking out for cameras, is anything more
than folly.
It takes 0.8 seconds to do a speedo check. If a driver
checks his speedo 15 times every minute, then for
every minute, his attention is diverted away from the
road for a minimum of 12 seconds. On a 100 minute
journey thatd be 120 seconds, or 2 whole minutes
(conservative) in which he may as well have his eyes
closed.
Id suggest that far from fining and giving points to
drivers "speeding", that they instead HAD to attend an
Advanced Driver course that THEY pay for, youd then
see a drop in accidents for sure, and no need for any
speed cameras or speed camera vans either.
However, i cant see you guys supporting such an idea,
itd be like turkeys voting for Xmas.
I hope that you can take on board what ive
suggested/commented on and taken it in good spirit,
for that is very much the spirit in which it was
intended.
Regards.
From: "Philip Gwynne"
To:
Subject: RE: Your camera website comments...
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 13:52:25 +0100
Dear *****(or ****, if you prefer!)
Thank you very much for your prompt response. I do take your comments
in the
spirit they are offered, as I'm always "open" to honest and
conscientious
motorists like you who want to contribute meaningfully to the safety
cameras
debate... whether you/they agree with our position or not! So... keep
the
comments coming!!
If I may, I'd like to reply to a couple of your points.
The one-third figure quoted is taken from West Yorkshire's own
statistics,
but is, of necessity, modelled on the TRL's analysis, All safety camera
partnerships in the UK use the same "measure", which is the one that
the
government uses to measure casualty statistics and causation factors,
and to
determine finding levels for highways/road safety programmes.
As you rightly observe, one of the key measurement criteria is KSI,
which
include all causation factors, not just speeding. The reason is that
government prefers to err on the side of having excuses to take
remedial
action, rather than being accused of seeking excuses not to do so...
or, to
put it another way, of "allowing" deaths and casualties to happen
through
inertia or inaction.
I know it's not the most accurate or true measurement of a casualty
causation profile but until someone smarter than us comes up with a
better
alternative, it's the only measure we have so it's the one we must work
with.
As you might expect, I don't buy the old (well-worn) argument about
motorists being fixated on their speedo or looking out for cameras.
1. The law says (i.e. magistrates courts) that motorists shouldn't need
to be reminded to drive legally, within the speed limits. And they
should
make sure they know what the speed limit is. Therefore, no "additional
burden" is required to drive legally.
2. Motorists don't complain about the time or attention it takes to
check the rear view mirrors... or change radio channels... or turn over
a
cassette tape... or (horror of horrors!) talk on a mobile phone... or
chat
to their passengers... or turn round and check the kids are alright in
the
back... or read roadside destination/direction signs... or look out for
the
name of the street they need or...or... or... You get the point!
If a motorist is so fixated on the speedo and looking out for cameras
that
their attention is not on the road ahead, I'd have to question whether
they're fit to be behind the wheel in the first place!
Anyway, thanks again for your comments. I've taken the liberty of
including
you on the list of people who receive our free advance information and
news
service about safety camera activities... and I hope you'll continue to
visit our website.
Best wishes.
Philip J Gwynne
PR Manager, West Yorkshire Safety Cameras
(01274) 437420
Sorry about the length of these guys, but it does make for interesting reading...(well i think it does..
) 
When you think about it speed must be a contributy (sp) in the vast majority of accidents.As when the car is parked its unlikely to have an accident.
So the question is how big a factor the speed was and was it the major factor.
A question as an example a tired, drunk driver who is speeding hits a car (stationary)
What was the major factor in causing the accident?
>> Edited by pies on Thursday 21st August 20:59
So the question is how big a factor the speed was and was it the major factor.
A question as an example a tired, drunk driver who is speeding hits a car (stationary)
What was the major factor in causing the accident?
>> Edited by pies on Thursday 21st August 20:59
lolol...hey no worries. He can be as patronizing as he likes, but he has given us something, approval to protest at sites they enforce, and hes's effectively signed it and given his blessing.
It may come in useful at a later stage.
Better to take what we can now, and be in a better fighting position a little further down the line.
It may come in useful at a later stage.
Better to take what we can now, and be in a better fighting position a little further down the line.
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