Rallying problem.... please help!
Discussion
Hello 
I usually post on the Lotus Elise forum, but I also co-drive for my partner in a BMW 3 series compact in stage rallies.
Our last rally was successful by way of the car and driver - although the car was overheating massively and we has to run with the heaters and fan on full. With plastic windows on a hot day, the heat in car was unbearable... Anyway, I let the side down by feeling so horrendously car sick that in the end we had to retire. Gutted
I had taken Stugeron the morning of the rally, but this obviously didn't stop the motion sickness. I am planning a chat with my GP as apparently stronger drugs are available - does anyone have any experience of this? Any tips to feel better?
The stages are so short that it's really keeping it under control for the 10 mins so that I can co-drive! And before anyone suggests just not doing it, I am completely passionate about rallying and our car so I have no intention of stopping. This is just a minor hurdle to overcome...!
Please, please help as I need to sort this out. I don't want to stop co-driving
Thanks!
I usually post on the Lotus Elise forum, but I also co-drive for my partner in a BMW 3 series compact in stage rallies.
Our last rally was successful by way of the car and driver - although the car was overheating massively and we has to run with the heaters and fan on full. With plastic windows on a hot day, the heat in car was unbearable... Anyway, I let the side down by feeling so horrendously car sick that in the end we had to retire. Gutted
I had taken Stugeron the morning of the rally, but this obviously didn't stop the motion sickness. I am planning a chat with my GP as apparently stronger drugs are available - does anyone have any experience of this? Any tips to feel better?
The stages are so short that it's really keeping it under control for the 10 mins so that I can co-drive! And before anyone suggests just not doing it, I am completely passionate about rallying and our car so I have no intention of stopping. This is just a minor hurdle to overcome...!
Please, please help as I need to sort this out. I don't want to stop co-driving
Thanks!
This probably sounds daft, but in the airforce they have a solution for pilots who get airsick. Basically its constant exposure until the body adapts. Get your hubby to drive you round and round until your sick. Then drink lots of water and repeat.
Not very pleasant, but it will cure you in the long run.
Not very pleasant, but it will cure you in the long run.
I know the feeling. i have been Co-Driving since 1978 !! and last year for the first time due to sickness we had to retire due to my stomach contents wanting out. It would have been OK had it not been I was using a borrowed full face helmet and it happened 2 miles into a 5 mile stage!
I took some travel tablets and water but only got another 2 stages before it all happened again. I decided my problem was more of an eyesight problem causing motion sickness, so off to the optitians I went and got new specs. I havnt had a chance to see if it works yet.
I gave up night rallies due to keep being sick.
Good luck, It's not an unusual problem, many of my Co-Driving friends will tell you it's always been a problem. One thing I did find is that being out at regular intervals does condition the body better, so my answer is do more events.
Dave
I took some travel tablets and water but only got another 2 stages before it all happened again. I decided my problem was more of an eyesight problem causing motion sickness, so off to the optitians I went and got new specs. I havnt had a chance to see if it works yet.
I gave up night rallies due to keep being sick.
Good luck, It's not an unusual problem, many of my Co-Driving friends will tell you it's always been a problem. One thing I did find is that being out at regular intervals does condition the body better, so my answer is do more events.
Dave
Thanks for the replies - I was half expecting people to tell me just to give up (not my style), so I am geniunely pleased to have some quality advice instead!
We have lots of events planned so I will hopefully adapt and it will lessen (as it did sailing). Do you have any tips for lessening the nausea feeling in the car? Obviously the heat / petrol fumes don't help. Would mints helps? Also, how often do you look up from your notes?
It's good to know that other co-drivers suffer from it - I honestly thought that I was the only one and that my days were numbered
We have lots of events planned so I will hopefully adapt and it will lessen (as it did sailing). Do you have any tips for lessening the nausea feeling in the car? Obviously the heat / petrol fumes don't help. Would mints helps? Also, how often do you look up from your notes?
It's good to know that other co-drivers suffer from it - I honestly thought that I was the only one and that my days were numbered
Getting all scientific and all that, I believe the cause of the sickness is a dis-association between what the body is feeling and what the eyes are seeing. The body feels movement, but, because you are looking at your notes, they eyes say that you are stationary. If you can, look out of the windscreen as much as you can so that your senses can resynchronise.
Rather bizarely I've devloped the opposite problem. If I play computer games like Quake, from a first person perspective, I start to get motion sickness as my eyes tell me that I am moving, but my body tells me that I'm stationary. Bizarre. Fortunately, it doesn't happen with car racing games though.
Rather bizarely I've devloped the opposite problem. If I play computer games like Quake, from a first person perspective, I start to get motion sickness as my eyes tell me that I am moving, but my body tells me that I'm stationary. Bizarre. Fortunately, it doesn't happen with car racing games though.
Thanks for the advice!
On the final stage on Saturday Chris drove it blind and I just looked out and didn't call anything - but I still felt ill. With hindsight I think I was feeling so rough by then that nothing would stop it! I think mints might overcome the fumes etc, but not much we can do about the heat (apart from stopping the car overheating!)...
On the final stage on Saturday Chris drove it blind and I just looked out and didn't call anything - but I still felt ill. With hindsight I think I was feeling so rough by then that nothing would stop it! I think mints might overcome the fumes etc, but not much we can do about the heat (apart from stopping the car overheating!)...
My Co-driver used to suffer quite badly especially on Road Rallies. He found wristbands helped, but also changing his posture/sitting position by making the seat more upright and moving the footrest helped too.
There is also an element of doing it until your body gets used to it as well.
Good Luck
There is also an element of doing it until your body gets used to it as well.
Good Luck
The suspension maybe too stiffly sprung / damped if its adjustable try a test with the dampers on the softest setting.
Its an incredibly common problem, even for passengers who are not actually looking at notes.
The heat is a real problem for many (i go through a litre of water per ten miles) you really do need to drink until you can no more, if the car is that hot. Its not actually a problem and loosens muscles up nicely but you have to drink shed loads otherwise you will be properly ill with headaches and poor concentration.
Kwells (SP) used to be the std solution on night road rallies in the 80's for many many co-drivers.
Good luck - keep plugging away
Its an incredibly common problem, even for passengers who are not actually looking at notes.
The heat is a real problem for many (i go through a litre of water per ten miles) you really do need to drink until you can no more, if the car is that hot. Its not actually a problem and loosens muscles up nicely but you have to drink shed loads otherwise you will be properly ill with headaches and poor concentration.
Kwells (SP) used to be the std solution on night road rallies in the 80's for many many co-drivers.
Good luck - keep plugging away
If you go over to the British Rally Forum and do a search, there's a very long thread about this issue on there.
I've navigated about 6 night rallies myself and do get sick, but I found it made a big difference if you have the window half open. I think someone said the sickness is caused by conflicting signals to the brain i.e. looking at a stationary map, no wind rushing by, and feeling motion. Having the window open helps with the conflicting wind part.
I've navigated about 6 night rallies myself and do get sick, but I found it made a big difference if you have the window half open. I think someone said the sickness is caused by conflicting signals to the brain i.e. looking at a stationary map, no wind rushing by, and feeling motion. Having the window open helps with the conflicting wind part.
I had to overcome quite serious sea sickness in order to become a professional sailor. I also suffer from car sickness if I read - otherwise I'm fine. You have my sympathies. It is doable and largely due to knowing the problems and how to deal with them.
In my experience the following will improve matters (no doubt you are already doing some of these)
Stugeron or other motion sickness pill
Ginger (in any form; I like ginger snaps but ginger ale or stem ginger will also help)
Looking at horizon or scenery/glancing away from notes
Staying busy and focusing on the job in hand not the sickness
The knowledge that you've been in this situation before and you managed it (over time this improves matters greatly)
Knowing what the bad factors are and doing all you can to minimise them
I never found patches behind the ear or wrist bands to work for me but it clearly works for other people. Don't ignore the psycological effect of using these devices.
Avoid
Excessive heat or cold
Feeling of constriction or potentially claustrophobic spaces
Fumes and strong smells (particularly fuel)
Not being able to see the horizon/not being in fresh air and a breeze.
Bearing these in mind I would suspect that in feeling sick you are in the majority rather than the minority.
If excessive heat and fumes are causing you to drop out of rallies, or lose the ability to read the pace notes to the best of your ability then presumably curing the car of these problems (or at least improving them) will be the biggest performance enhancement you can make. ie fix the overheating/airflow/ducting/fuel tankage/distribution before you upgrade brakes, suspension etc.
Maybe a change in your racing attire would allow you to keep cooler? Can you get water cooled race suits?
In my experience the following will improve matters (no doubt you are already doing some of these)
Stugeron or other motion sickness pill
Ginger (in any form; I like ginger snaps but ginger ale or stem ginger will also help)
Looking at horizon or scenery/glancing away from notes
Staying busy and focusing on the job in hand not the sickness
The knowledge that you've been in this situation before and you managed it (over time this improves matters greatly)
Knowing what the bad factors are and doing all you can to minimise them
I never found patches behind the ear or wrist bands to work for me but it clearly works for other people. Don't ignore the psycological effect of using these devices.
Avoid
Excessive heat or cold
Feeling of constriction or potentially claustrophobic spaces
Fumes and strong smells (particularly fuel)
Not being able to see the horizon/not being in fresh air and a breeze.
Bearing these in mind I would suspect that in feeling sick you are in the majority rather than the minority.
If excessive heat and fumes are causing you to drop out of rallies, or lose the ability to read the pace notes to the best of your ability then presumably curing the car of these problems (or at least improving them) will be the biggest performance enhancement you can make. ie fix the overheating/airflow/ducting/fuel tankage/distribution before you upgrade brakes, suspension etc.
Maybe a change in your racing attire would allow you to keep cooler? Can you get water cooled race suits?
Thanks for all the advice!
Has anyone had any luck with these electric wrist band things? Someone on another forum suggested them and the reviews seem good...
http://www.lifejacketsdirect.co.uk/product/3838/se...
I would be interested to hear if anyone has sucessfully used them.
Has anyone had any luck with these electric wrist band things? Someone on another forum suggested them and the reviews seem good...
http://www.lifejacketsdirect.co.uk/product/3838/se...
I would be interested to hear if anyone has sucessfully used them.
From what I understand, the sickness and vomiting come from the brain effectively believing that the body has been poisoned because it is receiving so many mixed signals.
This is made much worse when your body is under stress already, so the smell and heat etc will have major impact. I found when I was sailing that 'knowing this' (whether it is actually true or not) helped, and allowed me to recognise when things might start to really trigger the sickness.
It's really important as already said to drink a lot, but also to make sure that you eat enough too. As your body starts to tire this can bring you into the stress type state where you might not be able to cope with everything else the body/brain is fighting while you read pace notes!
This is made much worse when your body is under stress already, so the smell and heat etc will have major impact. I found when I was sailing that 'knowing this' (whether it is actually true or not) helped, and allowed me to recognise when things might start to really trigger the sickness.
It's really important as already said to drink a lot, but also to make sure that you eat enough too. As your body starts to tire this can bring you into the stress type state where you might not be able to cope with everything else the body/brain is fighting while you read pace notes!
I've co driven a lot, and never really suffered badly. I do find that it helps to regularly look up and out of the windscreen to keep your forced movements in the correct frame of reference - shaking about, and looking down at your notes confuses the brain with the forces and the sights that are being seen.
Also sit with your bum right back in the seat so the lap belts don't push on your stomach, and most of the force holding you in is by the shoulder straps.
Hold your notes out a bit infront of you if you can, and not tucked into your lap, so that your head faces forwards more, and your throat and airway is clearer to breath ... If you have your head to far down you could restrict air movement and the forces would move the air around inside you, and not through you - pressure pushing inside you.
Last and most difficult - Don't think about it. Chat to your driver about anything to do with the forthcoming stage (even if it isn't 100% relevant) to take your mind off it ... first couple of bends and sections, tyres, times, balance, mileages, fuel, servicing, drinks ... Whatever it takes to fill your mind with the stage, and not your belly. Adrenalin will cure anything, so get him to drive faster
Also sit with your bum right back in the seat so the lap belts don't push on your stomach, and most of the force holding you in is by the shoulder straps.
Hold your notes out a bit infront of you if you can, and not tucked into your lap, so that your head faces forwards more, and your throat and airway is clearer to breath ... If you have your head to far down you could restrict air movement and the forces would move the air around inside you, and not through you - pressure pushing inside you.
Last and most difficult - Don't think about it. Chat to your driver about anything to do with the forthcoming stage (even if it isn't 100% relevant) to take your mind off it ... first couple of bends and sections, tyres, times, balance, mileages, fuel, servicing, drinks ... Whatever it takes to fill your mind with the stage, and not your belly. Adrenalin will cure anything, so get him to drive faster
jimmystratos said:
TVR MAN said:
Could mints perhaps be a liitle dangerous in the event of crash with choking?
Just an uneducated thought though....
Yes, I'll second that thought. It wouldn't need a crash either, a yump or just inhaling to speak at the wrong moment......Just an uneducated thought though....
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