Best kit for a 13 year old to build?
Discussion
As per above.
My little brother wants to build a kit car, and I was wondering what you experienced guys thought would be the best kit?
He's certainly not adverse to getting his hands dirty (shamefully I admit he's more mechanically savvy than myself) and has a bit of money to throw at it.
Personally I applaud him, hopefully he can get it done and SVA'd before all these changes come in.
Any tips comments?
Cheers
My little brother wants to build a kit car, and I was wondering what you experienced guys thought would be the best kit?
He's certainly not adverse to getting his hands dirty (shamefully I admit he's more mechanically savvy than myself) and has a bit of money to throw at it.
Personally I applaud him, hopefully he can get it done and SVA'd before all these changes come in.
Any tips comments?
Cheers
Fair play to him. I got into kits at about the same age and read everything I could find on Westfields. Never built one myself I cheated and bought one in the end.
Heard some great advice in this forum including that the best way to get into them is to buy one, strip it, rebuild it and upgrade parts. That way you know how its taken appart and how you put it back together!. I thought that was good advice and could see myself attempting this rather than building one from scratch.
Heard some great advice in this forum including that the best way to get into them is to buy one, strip it, rebuild it and upgrade parts. That way you know how its taken appart and how you put it back together!. I thought that was good advice and could see myself attempting this rather than building one from scratch.
BoRED S2upid said:
Fair play to him. I got into kits at about the same age and read everything I could find on Westfields. Never built one myself I cheated and bought one in the end.
Heard some great advice in this forum including that the best way to get into them is to buy one, strip it, rebuild it and upgrade parts. That way you know how its taken appart and how you put it back together!. I thought that was good advice and could see myself attempting this rather than building one from scratch.
Whilst it isn't a bad theory, one thing it does do is introduce you to possible errors made by the original builder which you can then merrily replicate - if going down this route I think it needs to be done with a full build manual anyway and everything the original builder did assumed to be incorrect or even possibly dangerous!Heard some great advice in this forum including that the best way to get into them is to buy one, strip it, rebuild it and upgrade parts. That way you know how its taken appart and how you put it back together!. I thought that was good advice and could see myself attempting this rather than building one from scratch.
Funny someone should bring this up. I have a 6 year old daughter who fortunately, is the son I will never have! At Stoneleigh we went on the Dakar 4x4 course and she loved it. She then took a shine to the Blitzworld off roaders....... Sat in a few. A few of my BEC owning buddies will probobly give me some abuse for this but I am seriously considering building one of the road-legal buggies. With her help and input of course.... she knows how spanners, screwdrivers and sockets work. And spraycans, and sewing, and lying about how much things cost... Will probobly end up bright pink! I know Robin Hoods have a bad reputation, but that new Zero is visually about as close as you can get to a Caterham (to the point I think they could get sued) but not sure how well it was reviewed in this months kit car mag? And flippin' cheap. How easy it will be to build for a 13 year old is another question. Anyone read the review? At the show it looked just like any other locost-type to me so maybe it could be a good car???
I would avoid locost and plump for a Caterfield.
The reason is the technical difficulty of the kit, and the quality of the backup. There are lots of manufacturers out there who will sell you a good product, but fail to deliver it. I waited 4 years for all the parts of my kit to arrive, when parts did arrive at my door, they seldom fitted without major modification.
Since build has completed, I've had a series of failures, oil leaks, suspension failures etc. All related to the quality (and design) of the kit.
As a 38 year old professional engineer, I'm glad to say that I weatherd the storm and now have a reliable vehicle. As a 13year old I'd have been swamped.
Yes, there's a price premium for a Westfield or Caterham, but they arrive in a box with every nut and bolt labelled (if you want them to). Problem free assembly.
The reason is the technical difficulty of the kit, and the quality of the backup. There are lots of manufacturers out there who will sell you a good product, but fail to deliver it. I waited 4 years for all the parts of my kit to arrive, when parts did arrive at my door, they seldom fitted without major modification.
Since build has completed, I've had a series of failures, oil leaks, suspension failures etc. All related to the quality (and design) of the kit.
As a 38 year old professional engineer, I'm glad to say that I weatherd the storm and now have a reliable vehicle. As a 13year old I'd have been swamped.
Yes, there's a price premium for a Westfield or Caterham, but they arrive in a box with every nut and bolt labelled (if you want them to). Problem free assembly.
mikeveal said:
I would avoid locost and plump for a Caterfield.
The reason is the technical difficulty of the kit, and the quality of the backup. There are lots of manufacturers out there who will sell you a good product, but fail to deliver it. I waited 4 years for all the parts of my kit to arrive, when parts did arrive at my door, they seldom fitted without major modification.
Since build has completed, I've had a series of failures, oil leaks, suspension failures etc. All related to the quality (and design) of the kit.
As a 38 year old professional engineer, I'm glad to say that I weatherd the storm and now have a reliable vehicle. As a 13year old I'd have been swamped.
Yes, there's a price premium for a Westfield or Caterham, but they arrive in a box with every nut and bolt labelled (if you want them to). Problem free assembly.
When you say "locost" - who exactly do you mean? I know a lot of people that have built locost sevenesques and it's a term applied to both a lot of kits, and more frequently ones that do not come in kit form at all - you just buy a book and build it. The Locost forum is full of hundreds who have built locosts happily.The reason is the technical difficulty of the kit, and the quality of the backup. There are lots of manufacturers out there who will sell you a good product, but fail to deliver it. I waited 4 years for all the parts of my kit to arrive, when parts did arrive at my door, they seldom fitted without major modification.
Since build has completed, I've had a series of failures, oil leaks, suspension failures etc. All related to the quality (and design) of the kit.
As a 38 year old professional engineer, I'm glad to say that I weatherd the storm and now have a reliable vehicle. As a 13year old I'd have been swamped.
Yes, there's a price premium for a Westfield or Caterham, but they arrive in a box with every nut and bolt labelled (if you want them to). Problem free assembly.
I'm also not sure you can apply "oil leaks" to the kit?!
They are more expensive but Id agree with Mike in saying that something like a Westie would be the best bet for someone so inexperienced. Admittedly about 6 years ago now, but when I built my BEC Locost a mate of mine started off helping me then about 2 months into my build (with a ready built chassis) he decided he wanted to build one himself, so bought a Westie kit. Within a couple of weeks of that being delivered, he was ahead of me and finished his build a good couple of months before mine!
The problem with a genuine Locost type build is that you really need some experience to know how to engineer a satisfactory solution. Often there aren't off the shelf bits available so you need to make bits yourself, so need access to various power tools and welding gear etc, which Im not sure many 13 year olds would be comfortable or experienced enough to handle on their own.
That said, today there's a hell of a lot more support from forums etc than when I built mine, so Im certain mine would be easier to build today than when I did it. The relative complexity still rings true though, even the Locost based complete kits now available (MK, Mac1, MNR etc) don't seem to be quite as polished or comprehensive as the Westie kits, but they're a hell of a lot easier than doing a book Locost virtually from scratch thats for sure.
The problem with a genuine Locost type build is that you really need some experience to know how to engineer a satisfactory solution. Often there aren't off the shelf bits available so you need to make bits yourself, so need access to various power tools and welding gear etc, which Im not sure many 13 year olds would be comfortable or experienced enough to handle on their own.
That said, today there's a hell of a lot more support from forums etc than when I built mine, so Im certain mine would be easier to build today than when I did it. The relative complexity still rings true though, even the Locost based complete kits now available (MK, Mac1, MNR etc) don't seem to be quite as polished or comprehensive as the Westie kits, but they're a hell of a lot easier than doing a book Locost virtually from scratch thats for sure.
mikeveal said:
I would avoid locost and plump for a Caterfield.
The reason is the technical difficulty of the kit, and the quality of the backup. There are lots of manufacturers out there who will sell you a good product, but fail to deliver it. I waited 4 years for all the parts of my kit to arrive, when parts did arrive at my door, they seldom fitted without major modification.
Since build has completed, I've had a series of failures, oil leaks, suspension failures etc. All related to the quality (and design) of the kit.
As a 38 year old professional engineer, I'm glad to say that I weatherd the storm and now have a reliable vehicle. As a 13year old I'd have been swamped.
Yes, there's a price premium for a Westfield or Caterham, but they arrive in a box with every nut and bolt labelled (if you want them to). Problem free assembly.
I ordered and built a Robin Hood at 17.. People have alot of bad things to say about them but but im afraid they are wrong. The reason is the technical difficulty of the kit, and the quality of the backup. There are lots of manufacturers out there who will sell you a good product, but fail to deliver it. I waited 4 years for all the parts of my kit to arrive, when parts did arrive at my door, they seldom fitted without major modification.
Since build has completed, I've had a series of failures, oil leaks, suspension failures etc. All related to the quality (and design) of the kit.
As a 38 year old professional engineer, I'm glad to say that I weatherd the storm and now have a reliable vehicle. As a 13year old I'd have been swamped.
Yes, there's a price premium for a Westfield or Caterham, but they arrive in a box with every nut and bolt labelled (if you want them to). Problem free assembly.
The kit cost me 3500 to build and put on the road at the time, and I learnt Everthing while doing it, eg. the correct way to angle a drill bit for stainless), stripping the sierra ect.
Forget all the handleing comments ect.. I learnt how to drive it, and it helped me. The internet helps.. everybody has an improvement of prefered way of doing somehing, and at the end of the day thats how you learn.
Im lucky enogh to be putting together an Ultima now (my fourth car), and im many ways its quite boring. Everything just bolts together..
Ron champion is going a bit too far for me.. I think its better to actually have something to start with rather than some square tube.. gets the interest going.
IMHO go with at real budget 7 clone.
Jim Spencer said:
Hi
It's got to be a Locost, either by buying the book and building all of it, or there are lots of suppliers out there so you can buy it just like a kit. Bits are cheap and simple and the 750 Motor Club locost series is there at the end of it.
Building one from scratch can be quite 'involved' (I did so at university). I don't know what it's like these days though, now there's virtually a whole industry built up around them, but at the time there was a lot more to it than the usual Caterfield 'kit in a box' arrangement.It's got to be a Locost, either by buying the book and building all of it, or there are lots of suppliers out there so you can buy it just like a kit. Bits are cheap and simple and the 750 Motor Club locost series is there at the end of it.
That said, if he wants to go circuit racing, the Locost series has to be about the best formula going for a novice on a budget.
Davi said:
mikeveal said:
I would avoid locost and plump for a Caterfield.
The reason is the technical difficulty of the kit, and the quality of the backup. There are lots of manufacturers out there who will sell you a good product, but fail to deliver it. I waited 4 years for all the parts of my kit to arrive, when parts did arrive at my door, they seldom fitted without major modification.
Since build has completed, I've had a series of failures, oil leaks, suspension failures etc. All related to the quality (and design) of the kit.
As a 38 year old professional engineer, I'm glad to say that I weatherd the storm and now have a reliable vehicle. As a 13year old I'd have been swamped.
Yes, there's a price premium for a Westfield or Caterham, but they arrive in a box with every nut and bolt labelled (if you want them to). Problem free assembly.
When you say "locost" - who exactly do you mean? I know a lot of people that have built locost sevenesques and it's a term applied to both a lot of kits, and more frequently ones that do not come in kit form at all - you just buy a book and build it. The Locost forum is full of hundreds who have built locosts happily.The reason is the technical difficulty of the kit, and the quality of the backup. There are lots of manufacturers out there who will sell you a good product, but fail to deliver it. I waited 4 years for all the parts of my kit to arrive, when parts did arrive at my door, they seldom fitted without major modification.
Since build has completed, I've had a series of failures, oil leaks, suspension failures etc. All related to the quality (and design) of the kit.
As a 38 year old professional engineer, I'm glad to say that I weatherd the storm and now have a reliable vehicle. As a 13year old I'd have been swamped.
Yes, there's a price premium for a Westfield or Caterham, but they arrive in a box with every nut and bolt labelled (if you want them to). Problem free assembly.
I'm also not sure you can apply "oil leaks" to the kit?!
When I say Locost, I mean to Ron Champions book.
I guess what I was trying to do was highlight the difference between a book built car and a Caterfield, where al the parts arrive nicely bagged.
Yes, i can definatatley apply oil leaks to the car.
The car uses a crown an pinion unit from a shaft drive BMW motorcycle.
In the motorcycle the prop runs inside the swingarm, and the swingarm is full of oil. There is an oil seal between the oil resevoir in the swingarm and the resevoir in the crown and pinion unit.
In the bike the oil pressure in the swingarm is higher than the oil pressure in the C&P unit. The seal keeps oil OUT of the C&P unit.
On my car, the prop runs in an open prop tunnel. In this installation, the oil seal must keep the oil IN the C&P unit.
When a C&P unit is removed from a bike and transplanted to the car, the oil seal must be removed and replaced with a seal fitted the other way round.
I think it is absolutely right that I should expect a kit supplier to have tried this setup and debugged the leak.
Instead, he left at least two of his customers with oil in their footwells.
Got just the machine for him to have a go at and it wouldn't be long till he could drive it too as he should be able to drive it on the road at age 16! And what's really good is it's cheap to run at about 3p a mile as it's electric!
How about this?
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How about this?
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