Discussion
You can get streaming video from the circuit webcam(s), the lap timing, and timing and result pdf's here: http://www.race-rally.be/2008/ser2008/results/live...
James
Excellent that you read this and so should all involved with Britcar
Three teams have been excluded from qualifying at Spa as a result of the DL 1 loggers not providing information. It is my understanding that six cars were tested after Qualifying yesterday and three failed to give data.
So the teams put the card in, make sure the DL1 is switched on and then hope that the data is recorded?
The Clerk of the Course made the decision to exclude these three teams and make them start the race from the Pit lane?
One of the drivers was told that it is his responsibility to check the data logger is working, but it does not start logging until the vehicle is moving and the driver cannot see the logger from the drivers seat? Perhaps one of the team should run down the pit lane following the car to check if the lights are functioning?
Even the email from the EERC suggest that the cars need to be moving to work, this is an extract from that email:
"The loggers are set to automatically start logging at relatively low speeds with no driver intervention required"
So assuming we have checked everthing else in the email, we have done everything possible to ensure we are complying.
There has been a failure rate of 50% and it is pretty clear that based on the three cars involved, there would be very little chance of a any of them trying to 'cheat'.
So Mr Tucker, what will happen if ours [or anyones] data logger fails during the race for whatever reason, based on this, we would be excluded from the race. Based on the current failure rate, this is very likely. The Clerk of the Course has set a precedent after qualifying.
Excellent that you read this and so should all involved with Britcar
Three teams have been excluded from qualifying at Spa as a result of the DL 1 loggers not providing information. It is my understanding that six cars were tested after Qualifying yesterday and three failed to give data.
So the teams put the card in, make sure the DL1 is switched on and then hope that the data is recorded?
The Clerk of the Course made the decision to exclude these three teams and make them start the race from the Pit lane?
One of the drivers was told that it is his responsibility to check the data logger is working, but it does not start logging until the vehicle is moving and the driver cannot see the logger from the drivers seat? Perhaps one of the team should run down the pit lane following the car to check if the lights are functioning?
Even the email from the EERC suggest that the cars need to be moving to work, this is an extract from that email:
"The loggers are set to automatically start logging at relatively low speeds with no driver intervention required"
So assuming we have checked everthing else in the email, we have done everything possible to ensure we are complying.
There has been a failure rate of 50% and it is pretty clear that based on the three cars involved, there would be very little chance of a any of them trying to 'cheat'.
So Mr Tucker, what will happen if ours [or anyones] data logger fails during the race for whatever reason, based on this, we would be excluded from the race. Based on the current failure rate, this is very likely. The Clerk of the Course has set a precedent after qualifying.
There is a solution to this that is quite simple.
The setup for the DL1 is saved to the card that you all put in before the race.
Just change the setup so that you have to press the button on the DL1 for it to log? That way there cannot be any confusion! Only down to the team/driver.
However this does not bode well for using the loggers anyway. Assuming that no one cheated, and we must make that assumption, how can any data be relied upon from these loggers if a large number dont think the car is moving?
The setup for the DL1 is saved to the card that you all put in before the race.
Just change the setup so that you have to press the button on the DL1 for it to log? That way there cannot be any confusion! Only down to the team/driver.
However this does not bode well for using the loggers anyway. Assuming that no one cheated, and we must make that assumption, how can any data be relied upon from these loggers if a large number dont think the car is moving?
matt1300 said:
There is a solution to this that is quite simple.
The setup for the DL1 is saved to the card that you all put in before the race.
Just change the setup so that you have to press the button on the DL1 for it to log? That way there cannot be any confusion! Only down to the team/driver.
However this does not bode well for using the loggers anyway. Assuming that no one cheated, and we must make that assumption, how can any data be relied upon from these loggers if a large number dont think the car is moving?
No, I disagree. The DL1 is a "scrutineering device" in effect, therefore the series eligibility scrutineer should be the only person allowed to touch it. It should be sealed. No driver or team involvement other than that they install it as per the recommendations.The setup for the DL1 is saved to the card that you all put in before the race.
Just change the setup so that you have to press the button on the DL1 for it to log? That way there cannot be any confusion! Only down to the team/driver.
However this does not bode well for using the loggers anyway. Assuming that no one cheated, and we must make that assumption, how can any data be relied upon from these loggers if a large number dont think the car is moving?
If this were F1 (which is certainly is not), and they used a device like the DL1, it would be something that perhaps only Charlie Whiting, or one of his technical crew could lay their paws on it. Any other fingerprints on it would result in a Spanish Inquisition with McLaren fined £1bn....
TO be fair though I think the F1 technical committee has a slightly larger budget...
Also the autostart of the DL1's is the only bit we've had trouble with.. I think the TVR boys have gone back to pressing the button. You can fit external start/stop loggin buttons with indicator lights or just an external logging indicator to the dl1's if that might help. ( thats what I have on the Tuscan)
G
Also the autostart of the DL1's is the only bit we've had trouble with.. I think the TVR boys have gone back to pressing the button. You can fit external start/stop loggin buttons with indicator lights or just an external logging indicator to the dl1's if that might help. ( thats what I have on the Tuscan)
G
Enjoyed watching the race and listerning to the commentry on the britcar website although mine lost connection 15minutes before the end which was slightly annoying, but the number 7 mosler was disqualified from qualifying but was running in the race from what I could tell, was it allowed to run after all along with the other disqualified cars??
If the TVR boys have had troubles, this only means that the DL1 is far more fragile that it would first appear. The autostart turns on when the car is moving, from GPS data, if it is not turning on, the GPS data is telling it that it is not moving, or it is not receiving any GPS data. Therefore it cannot be relied upon for power calculations!
Hang on. If the TVR boys have gone back to pressing the buttoin, this means that they have fiddled with the DL1 setup!!!
I am sure this is for valid reasons, and i am NOT saying they are cheating, but i thought the cards were 'sealed'????
Hang on. If the TVR boys have gone back to pressing the buttoin, this means that they have fiddled with the DL1 setup!!!
I am sure this is for valid reasons, and i am NOT saying they are cheating, but i thought the cards were 'sealed'????
Edited by matt1300 on Sunday 1st June 13:30
Graham said:
TO be fair though I think the F1 technical committee has a slightly larger budget...
Also the autostart of the DL1's is the only bit we've had trouble with.. I think the TVR boys have gone back to pressing the button. You can fit external start/stop loggin buttons with indicator lights or just an external logging indicator to the dl1's if that might help. ( thats what I have on the Tuscan)
G
They may well have a larger budget, but what does it take for the cars to stop at pit exit at the beginning of practice for the scrutineer or his appointed nominee to poke their head in and make sure that the varmint is working/and/or pressing the button as an appointed person to do so.Also the autostart of the DL1's is the only bit we've had trouble with.. I think the TVR boys have gone back to pressing the button. You can fit external start/stop loggin buttons with indicator lights or just an external logging indicator to the dl1's if that might help. ( thats what I have on the Tuscan)
G
They can see that the relevant lights are flashing properly, and if they're not, they can say "one lap, back in, and fix it". Rather than find out after qualifying that it hasn't worked and kick the car out.
I say that the onus of responsibility should be with the championship, not the competitor in this respect. The only requirement from the competitor should be that they buy one, install it as per the spec, and ensure that it is switched on/powered up.
It would be like saying - we have to weigh your car every race, but YOU have to provide the calibrated & certified weighbridge. Errrr no.
matt1300 said:
If the TVR boys have had troubles, this only means that the DL1 is far more fragile that it would first appear. The autostart turns on when the car is moving, from GPS data, if it is not turning on, the GPS data is telling it that it is not moving, or it is not receiving any GPS data. Therefore it cannot be relied upon for power calculations!
Hang on. If the TVR boys have gone back to pressing the buttoin, this means that they have fiddled with the DL1 setup!!!
I am sure this is for valid reasons, and i am NOT saying they are cheating, but i thought the cards were 'sealed'????
Matt, the 'TVR boys' Graham is referring to are the guys competing in the Dunlop European TVR Challenge, not the Racesport team running the Sagaris in Britcar.Hang on. If the TVR boys have gone back to pressing the buttoin, this means that they have fiddled with the DL1 setup!!!
I am sure this is for valid reasons, and i am NOT saying they are cheating, but i thought the cards were 'sealed'????
Edited by matt1300 on Sunday 1st June 13:30
People are mighty fast to damn a team aren't they?!!!!
taffyracer said:
Well done to Rod, Jan, Jay and all at Neil Garner Performance, great great win in Class 2, only wished I could have been there with you lads.
Thanks Dom, just arrived back in the UK, it was indeed a great race, full of incidents but I've got to say that it was by far the best race we have had in terms of driver standards. Everyone was a star, the paddock was as usual very friendly and the Spa atmosphere amazing. I know there were a few unhappy teams regarding the Data loggers, we were one of the 6 teams tested, we passed luckily 
Racing Rod said:
taffyracer said:
Well done to Rod, Jan, Jay and all at Neil Garner Performance, great great win in Class 2, only wished I could have been there with you lads.
Thanks Dom, just arrived back in the UK, it was indeed a great race, full of incidents but I've got to say that it was by far the best race we have had in terms of driver standards. Everyone was a star, the paddock was as usual very friendly and the Spa atmosphere amazing. I know there were a few unhappy teams regarding the Data loggers, we were one of the 6 teams tested, we passed luckily 
Well done again Rod and Team, looks like I missed a corkerEdited by taffyracer on Sunday 1st June 20:54
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