Honda S1 - slow?
Discussion
This is going to be slightly controversial I know. I've just been to have a look at a NA Honda S1. I was coming at it from the point of view it would be a little bit quicker than my last performance car (M3 V8) but it would feel a lot more raw. When the guy took me out I genuinely thought he was taking it easy and wondered when he was going to put his foot down. I didn't get any kind of kick in the back, and it subjectively felt slower than my old M3.
I had a quick drive of it to see if it was a perception from the passenger seat, although I normally find a car feels faster when you're in the passenger seat. No real difference... didn't feel that quick. I was revving to about 7.5k, so there is a bit more oomph above that, but not huge amounts. I've also driven an S2 Exige S/C Toyota, and the Exige felt quicker than this Honda too.
My head was telling me it was quick, but it just didn't *feel* right. I got straight out of Lotus and into a 335d, and the diesel felt quicker. The only thing I can think is that because the Honda was so bloody noisy, it "toned down" the other element of the experience.
Hopefully I'll get a chance to sample another one soon and the experience will be very different. If it's not, I'm saving up for a S/C'd one
I had a quick drive of it to see if it was a perception from the passenger seat, although I normally find a car feels faster when you're in the passenger seat. No real difference... didn't feel that quick. I was revving to about 7.5k, so there is a bit more oomph above that, but not huge amounts. I've also driven an S2 Exige S/C Toyota, and the Exige felt quicker than this Honda too.
My head was telling me it was quick, but it just didn't *feel* right. I got straight out of Lotus and into a 335d, and the diesel felt quicker. The only thing I can think is that because the Honda was so bloody noisy, it "toned down" the other element of the experience.
Hopefully I'll get a chance to sample another one soon and the experience will be very different. If it's not, I'm saving up for a S/C'd one
edb49 said:
This is going to be slightly controversial I know. I've just been to have a look at a NA Honda S1. I was coming at it from the point of view it would be a little bit quicker than my last performance car (M3 V8) but it would feel a lot more raw. When the guy took me out I genuinely thought he was taking it easy and wondered when he was going to put his foot down. I didn't get any kind of kick in the back, and it subjectively felt slower than my old M3.
I had a quick drive of it to see if it was a perception from the passenger seat, although I normally find a car feels faster when you're in the passenger seat. No real difference... didn't feel that quick. I was revving to about 7.5k, so there is a bit more oomph above that, but not huge amounts. I've also driven an S2 Exige S/C Toyota, and the Exige felt quicker than this Honda too.
My head was telling me it was quick, but it just didn't *feel* right. I got straight out of Lotus and into a 335d, and the diesel felt quicker. The only thing I can think is that because the Honda was so bloody noisy, it "toned down" the other element of the experience.
Hopefully I'll get a chance to sample another one soon and the experience will be very different. If it's not, I'm saving up for a S/C'd one
not contravertial at all...I had a quick drive of it to see if it was a perception from the passenger seat, although I normally find a car feels faster when you're in the passenger seat. No real difference... didn't feel that quick. I was revving to about 7.5k, so there is a bit more oomph above that, but not huge amounts. I've also driven an S2 Exige S/C Toyota, and the Exige felt quicker than this Honda too.
My head was telling me it was quick, but it just didn't *feel* right. I got straight out of Lotus and into a 335d, and the diesel felt quicker. The only thing I can think is that because the Honda was so bloody noisy, it "toned down" the other element of the experience.
Hopefully I'll get a chance to sample another one soon and the experience will be very different. If it's not, I'm saving up for a S/C'd one
who's car/converstion was it for starters, they are not all the same by any imagination...
http://www.exiges.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=...
Surely 220bhp + 750kg = fast... I don't see how one conversion would be much faster/slower than another, if they weigh the same and have the same Honda donkey in the back.
Surely 220bhp + 750kg = fast... I don't see how one conversion would be much faster/slower than another, if they weigh the same and have the same Honda donkey in the back.
Edited by edb49 on Saturday 7th June 10:44
maybe an Audi car will suit you better...get 300bhp, and 300lbft and when that wacks you in the back at 2000rpm it does feel fast
the Honda is very smoothly mapped, theres no kicks or anything, so I guess yeah, if you just accelerate smoothly through the box then that is what it will feel like maybe.
Maybe you should try a supercharged car if its straight line silliness you are after
the Honda is very smoothly mapped, theres no kicks or anything, so I guess yeah, if you just accelerate smoothly through the box then that is what it will feel like maybe.
Maybe you should try a supercharged car if its straight line silliness you are after
I don't think this is surprising at all, the feeling of thump that you get when you put your foot down in a more torquey, powerful car is very different from what you get in an elise, even though the actual change in pace might be similar. My old Chimaera V8 (with only 240bhp, but 270 lb/ft and 1060kg) 'felt' like a rocketship, with rear tyres squirming and you had to hang on, there is absolutely no drama in the excelleration in my 111s but the actual change of pace is almost identical - horses for courses. I got myself deliberately lost on way home in elise down B roads yesterday in middle of night with top off, stereo on full blast and had one of the best drives of my life. If you want 'foot down' type of performance - go elsewhere (or get a modded car), if you want driving experience, go with an elise.
Not all Honda'd cars are equal.... none of them will exactly be slow... but some of them are only just over 200bhp, which doesn't make them a LOT quicker than a quick worked S1 K. But yeah.... sometimes even the quicker Honda'd cars don't FEEL that quick... at least not until the revs get up there.
I had both an E36 M3 evo and an E46 M3. I now have a link-up kit NA honda S2. Now while I acknowledge that the V8 M3 is a different animal, both my M3's were MUCH slower than my current elise at any speed I would do on a road in the UK - around a second and a half quicker to 60.
At very high speed (living in South Africa), the M3 was great - combination of power and aero, but at sane speeds, my elise which has just short of 230bhp gives me a kick in the back that far exceeds the beemers.
I would agree with scuffers - not all conversions are the same. Another factor I found on mine, was that if the air filter isn't cleaned regularly, the power got noticeably worse. Every time I clear the leaves and cr*p out of the induction system, the car feels like it gains 30 bhp.
At very high speed (living in South Africa), the M3 was great - combination of power and aero, but at sane speeds, my elise which has just short of 230bhp gives me a kick in the back that far exceeds the beemers.
I would agree with scuffers - not all conversions are the same. Another factor I found on mine, was that if the air filter isn't cleaned regularly, the power got noticeably worse. Every time I clear the leaves and cr*p out of the induction system, the car feels like it gains 30 bhp.
edb49 said:
http://www.exiges.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=...
Surely 220bhp + 750kg = fast... I don't see how one conversion would be much faster/slower than another, if they weigh the same and have the same Honda donkey in the back.
this is exactly where your gloing wrong..Surely 220bhp + 750kg = fast... I don't see how one conversion would be much faster/slower than another, if they weigh the same and have the same Honda donkey in the back.
(and yes, I know I will be slated for being bias etc etc).
the reality of it is that the different converstions are just not the same, the engine setup's are different, and whist some may tell you they have 220Bhp how do you know that? and even if the peak is 220, what's the torque curve on the way up there look like?
the one you have linked to is likley the same install as this one I did a comparison on some time ago, the difference is very evident...
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-1675924...
http://www.exiges.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=...
Doesn't mention price in the advert, but the guy said £16k when I called up.
Doesn't mention price in the advert, but the guy said £16k when I called up.
That car has a heck of a lot of kit on it - just about every mod you would want to go with a honda engine, but to be fair, I have been on track with that car and it wasn't the fastest honda elise in straight line. (I didn't find myself being subtantially outdragged and I had a k series engine in my car at the time)It probably just needs some tweaks to the map, because it's a great car generally.
My car is quicker in a straight line than a lotus exige 240R and noticeably faster than an exige S. I'll find some video later if I have a chance - at Snetterton I was pulling out quite a few car lengths along the main straight vs an exige S which is no slouch. Of course there is always the option to go supercharged, but if it's your first elise, you might want NA for a while.
My car is quicker in a straight line than a lotus exige 240R and noticeably faster than an exige S. I'll find some video later if I have a chance - at Snetterton I was pulling out quite a few car lengths along the main straight vs an exige S which is no slouch. Of course there is always the option to go supercharged, but if it's your first elise, you might want NA for a while.
Edited by shangani on Saturday 7th June 17:49
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