New potential Biker...any help much appreciated.
Discussion
Hello all,
my son is looking to entertain himself with 2 wheels instead of 4. Basic reasoning includes a heavy interest (most of the family rides!), the sense of community and the shere fun of riding.
As my son is only nearing 18 years old, any "nice" bike is out of the question. He is determined to pay the full cost out of his own money, which would be about 5 thousand gbp including everything (gear, bike, tutoring/learning, insurance etc).
Personally I have never looked into bikes much, but I am guessing that the insurance costs (like younger car drivers) are absolutely killer.
any general advice about what to do would be much appreciated. I do not mind throwing in an extra 1k for a better bike (being his 18th).
Most importantly I think is that neither I or my wife are badgering him about how dangerous it is to ride as opposed to driving, he knows the risk is much higher but we feel that he doesn't need to worry about our opinion every time he gets his leg over (WAHEY!)
anyway, I am blathering now.
Thankyou in advance for the help
my son is looking to entertain himself with 2 wheels instead of 4. Basic reasoning includes a heavy interest (most of the family rides!), the sense of community and the shere fun of riding.
As my son is only nearing 18 years old, any "nice" bike is out of the question. He is determined to pay the full cost out of his own money, which would be about 5 thousand gbp including everything (gear, bike, tutoring/learning, insurance etc).
Personally I have never looked into bikes much, but I am guessing that the insurance costs (like younger car drivers) are absolutely killer.
any general advice about what to do would be much appreciated. I do not mind throwing in an extra 1k for a better bike (being his 18th).
Most importantly I think is that neither I or my wife are badgering him about how dangerous it is to ride as opposed to driving, he knows the risk is much higher but we feel that he doesn't need to worry about our opinion every time he gets his leg over (WAHEY!)
anyway, I am blathering now.
Thankyou in advance for the help
Has your son passed his test? If not, then that needs to get sorted as quickly as possible.
Check out the sticky at the top of the page with regards to what is required for the test etc.
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0...
Once he has passed his test he will only be allowed to ride a restricted bike (33bhp I think) for 2 years. This may be as big an influence on the ‘what bike’ decision as the cost of insurance.
Get a list of bikes that are OK under the 33bhp limit and use the Insurance Centre on the likes of the MCN or Bike Trader web site to get a couple of example quotes for specific models.
When the decision is made as to which bikes meet all the criteria then do some shopping around to find the best deal. Again, MCN and Bike Trader(as well as e-bay and the local ‘rag’) are good for second hand bikes and MCN is good for new.
I hope that helps.
Check out the sticky at the top of the page with regards to what is required for the test etc.
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0...
Once he has passed his test he will only be allowed to ride a restricted bike (33bhp I think) for 2 years. This may be as big an influence on the ‘what bike’ decision as the cost of insurance.
Get a list of bikes that are OK under the 33bhp limit and use the Insurance Centre on the likes of the MCN or Bike Trader web site to get a couple of example quotes for specific models.
When the decision is made as to which bikes meet all the criteria then do some shopping around to find the best deal. Again, MCN and Bike Trader(as well as e-bay and the local ‘rag’) are good for second hand bikes and MCN is good for new.
I hope that helps.
cool. Cheers guys. Is it worth waiting till he is 21 for insurance purposes and the ability to get a better bike?
He has not passed his test yet, and I did notice the new rules that are being introduced in october regarding them (arse.)
The only problem is for call it 6k, how "good" a brand new bike could be afforded? Any examples from you lovely folk?
cheers.
He has not passed his test yet, and I did notice the new rules that are being introduced in october regarding them (arse.)
The only problem is for call it 6k, how "good" a brand new bike could be afforded? Any examples from you lovely folk?
cheers.
Let him take his test on a school owned bike and then he can shop around and try before he buys.
Most schools teach bikers to ride defensively these days and so, whilst riding a bike is potentially more dangerous, schools should make the rider more aware of the risks in any situation.
Good luck!
Most schools teach bikers to ride defensively these days and so, whilst riding a bike is potentially more dangerous, schools should make the rider more aware of the risks in any situation.
Good luck!
Davel said:
Let him take his test on a school owned bike and then he can shop around and try before he buys.
Seconded.While it's nice to start pondering and thinking of 'what bike' now, there's really little point thinking of what bike and how much insurance will be untill AFTER he has a license.
Do the DAS course, pass the test, get the license than think about what bike etc.
surreystyle said:
okay. I assume the process goes CBT then DAS correct? Or something like that?
CBT is the first part of the DAS.surreystyle said:
I did notice that suzuki's now come with free restrictors, so is it worth getting say a 400 - 600cc with restrictor or a cheaper, lower powered bike then a bigger bike after two years?
Forget about the bike now, concentrate on getting the license, not the bike, as the bike is as useful as a chocolate teapot without the license to ride it.Would you choose a car without a driving licence and a decent test drive?
Once he's got his test, he can try out all the bikes that might appeal.
Some look really sexy in the shop, but may be totally unsuitable for what he's looking for as a daily ride.
Besides, the best part of chossing a bike is riding a few to see how you like them.
A few weeks ago, I went out to try and buy a Harley Fat Bob - and ended up with a R1200GS!
Once he's got his test, he can try out all the bikes that might appeal.
Some look really sexy in the shop, but may be totally unsuitable for what he's looking for as a daily ride.
Besides, the best part of chossing a bike is riding a few to see how you like them.
A few weeks ago, I went out to try and buy a Harley Fat Bob - and ended up with a R1200GS!
£6K is going to get him all his kit, all his training and test fees and a brand new bike if you shop carefully (though probably not a GSX-R).
Training and tests should be around the £4-500 mark for a restricted license, a full set of kit should again be about £4-500 (much less if you shop budget) leaving over £4k for bike and insurance.
Training and test pass are the most important (obviously), but don't be too fussed about the changes in the test; it's still just a test after all, and the training schools and DSA are pretty much geared up for it now. I personally don't think there will be much difference in the pass rate with the new test, it's just a slightly different set of skills the examiner wil be looking for (and really, nothing you wouldn't expect a motorcyclist not to be able to do.)
Buying a bike from a dealer is just like buying a car; do your homework, know what the bike sells for in two or three different shops, don't be scared to be cheeky and make a low offer.
When the salesman refuses your offer (he'll always refuse your first offer, even if it's more than he would actually take) ask what the lowest price you would get the bike for is, then offer below it again; sometimes it works!
Don't tell the salesman you have the cash, ask him what the finance would work out at.
Ask for a better rate of finance, ask what the difference would be paying cash, make written notes as you go along (salesmen get really scared when you do this one!).
Don't get suckered by "we'll give you 5% off kit" or "we'll include the first service free."
Money off kit means you're spending even more money in the same place, so I would want even more off the costs of the bike then (and 5% off is only a fraction of the profit a shop makes on kit), first service is normally free anyway (sometimes you pay for parts, but not labour).
A restricted "full fat" bike is better than a 33BHP as standard machine; tyres, brakes and suspension are all capable of dealing with the full power, so will have no problem with 33bhp. Also, after two years on restricted power, when you take the kit off, the full power feels like a whole different ballgame.
Twins are better when restricted than inline fours (that'll be the SV instead of the Bandit) as they retain more of their torque (the bit that makes overtakes easier).
Insurance will be heavy due to his age and inexperience, however shop around and don't be scared to play one broker off against another.
There are serious margins in the insurance industry, and most brokers will happily eat into this if it means attracting a new customer.
Best time to get a good deal on all of the above is late Autumn/early winter when everyone is starting to get quiet again and the shops and brokers are starting to "squirrel" their profits to get them through winter.
Depending how a particular shop is doing over winter, January and February can be bargain central for existing stock if they are trying to keep from going to the wall (and this happens more often than shop owners care to admit).
Training and tests should be around the £4-500 mark for a restricted license, a full set of kit should again be about £4-500 (much less if you shop budget) leaving over £4k for bike and insurance.
Training and test pass are the most important (obviously), but don't be too fussed about the changes in the test; it's still just a test after all, and the training schools and DSA are pretty much geared up for it now. I personally don't think there will be much difference in the pass rate with the new test, it's just a slightly different set of skills the examiner wil be looking for (and really, nothing you wouldn't expect a motorcyclist not to be able to do.)
Buying a bike from a dealer is just like buying a car; do your homework, know what the bike sells for in two or three different shops, don't be scared to be cheeky and make a low offer.
When the salesman refuses your offer (he'll always refuse your first offer, even if it's more than he would actually take) ask what the lowest price you would get the bike for is, then offer below it again; sometimes it works!
Don't tell the salesman you have the cash, ask him what the finance would work out at.
Ask for a better rate of finance, ask what the difference would be paying cash, make written notes as you go along (salesmen get really scared when you do this one!).
Don't get suckered by "we'll give you 5% off kit" or "we'll include the first service free."
Money off kit means you're spending even more money in the same place, so I would want even more off the costs of the bike then (and 5% off is only a fraction of the profit a shop makes on kit), first service is normally free anyway (sometimes you pay for parts, but not labour).
A restricted "full fat" bike is better than a 33BHP as standard machine; tyres, brakes and suspension are all capable of dealing with the full power, so will have no problem with 33bhp. Also, after two years on restricted power, when you take the kit off, the full power feels like a whole different ballgame.
Twins are better when restricted than inline fours (that'll be the SV instead of the Bandit) as they retain more of their torque (the bit that makes overtakes easier).
Insurance will be heavy due to his age and inexperience, however shop around and don't be scared to play one broker off against another.
There are serious margins in the insurance industry, and most brokers will happily eat into this if it means attracting a new customer.
Best time to get a good deal on all of the above is late Autumn/early winter when everyone is starting to get quiet again and the shops and brokers are starting to "squirrel" their profits to get them through winter.
Depending how a particular shop is doing over winter, January and February can be bargain central for existing stock if they are trying to keep from going to the wall (and this happens more often than shop owners care to admit).
I took my CBT & rode a 125 for 3 years (obviously re-doin the CBT)
Then when i turned 21 i saved the cash up for my practical.
CBT is around £100
Theory is around £50
& your practical with bike hire & test fee is around £500.
I'd recommend either waiting until your 21 so you can do DAS or do your test @ 18 & get some sort of 400 or maybe even the 250 ninja they've just brought out.
For the simple reason a less powerful bike will be less insurance than a restricted bigger bike.
My 125cc scooter for me @ 18 was 450 TP to insure so do your homework on what the insurance on a "big bike" would be!
I also wouldnt say get a brand new bike unless you plan on keeping it for a fair few years as you just lose so much money on it!
I'm nearly 22 now and passed around 3-4months ago.
I think in relaistic terms you should be looking at the below sort of ranges for various things:
CBT - £100
Theor - £50
Practical - £500sh
Helmet - £40==>£500
Leathers - £200===>£1000++++
Gloves - £30===>£200
Boots - £70===>£300
Textiles - £120===>£500
Insurance @ 18 I'd say - Around £650+ for a 400cc
Insurance @ 21 I'd say - Around £700 for a 600cc
& then spend the rest on a bike lol!
Then when i turned 21 i saved the cash up for my practical.
CBT is around £100
Theory is around £50
& your practical with bike hire & test fee is around £500.
I'd recommend either waiting until your 21 so you can do DAS or do your test @ 18 & get some sort of 400 or maybe even the 250 ninja they've just brought out.
For the simple reason a less powerful bike will be less insurance than a restricted bigger bike.
My 125cc scooter for me @ 18 was 450 TP to insure so do your homework on what the insurance on a "big bike" would be!
I also wouldnt say get a brand new bike unless you plan on keeping it for a fair few years as you just lose so much money on it!
I'm nearly 22 now and passed around 3-4months ago.
I think in relaistic terms you should be looking at the below sort of ranges for various things:
CBT - £100
Theor - £50
Practical - £500sh
Helmet - £40==>£500
Leathers - £200===>£1000++++
Gloves - £30===>£200
Boots - £70===>£300
Textiles - £120===>£500
Insurance @ 18 I'd say - Around £650+ for a 400cc
Insurance @ 21 I'd say - Around £700 for a 600cc
& then spend the rest on a bike lol!
I reckon the amount you have to spend will more than adequately get your lad going.
I spent a similar amount earlier this year doing CBT/DAS and buying all gear. As he will not be doing DAS but a restricted licence so therefore not getting used to a 500 half way through you should find it a little cheaper most training schools have either 1 or 2 full days extra on DAS over restricted, although the insurance will probably be more than for a 31 year old laydee!
Like your son, I also fancied a Gixxer but couldn't justify it as a first bike when I'll still be learning after passing a test. I bought the Suzuki GS500F, similar look to the Gixxer without the out and out power which he won't be able to use anyway. Nobody will ever reccomend this as a sexy as hell bike but its unlikely that people will be close enough to really spot the difference unless they know what they are looking at anyway, I regularly get comments, including from the examiner and my instructor that the bike looks bigger than it is.
Also suzuki, if you buy new, will offer a free restrictor kit on most of their bigger bikes, for them its an investment in tomorrows riders, brand loyalty and all that.
Find him a decent training school, let him play with a couple of their bikes and then see what he can do by way of test riding once he's passed, not sure if he'll get the test rides on a restricted licence though.
Once he's ridden a little he will have his own ideas of what's important to him rather than second hand ideas from other people's experience.
Happy riding to your lad.
Kerry
I spent a similar amount earlier this year doing CBT/DAS and buying all gear. As he will not be doing DAS but a restricted licence so therefore not getting used to a 500 half way through you should find it a little cheaper most training schools have either 1 or 2 full days extra on DAS over restricted, although the insurance will probably be more than for a 31 year old laydee!
Like your son, I also fancied a Gixxer but couldn't justify it as a first bike when I'll still be learning after passing a test. I bought the Suzuki GS500F, similar look to the Gixxer without the out and out power which he won't be able to use anyway. Nobody will ever reccomend this as a sexy as hell bike but its unlikely that people will be close enough to really spot the difference unless they know what they are looking at anyway, I regularly get comments, including from the examiner and my instructor that the bike looks bigger than it is.
Also suzuki, if you buy new, will offer a free restrictor kit on most of their bigger bikes, for them its an investment in tomorrows riders, brand loyalty and all that.
Find him a decent training school, let him play with a couple of their bikes and then see what he can do by way of test riding once he's passed, not sure if he'll get the test rides on a restricted licence though.
Once he's ridden a little he will have his own ideas of what's important to him rather than second hand ideas from other people's experience.
Happy riding to your lad.
Kerry
I'm fairly sure you can only test ride on a full license although some shops maybe different!
The insurance will be the killer.
If he wants a big bike and restricts it, not only is it pointless having the extra power as you cant use it due to the restriction but itll just rape you on insurance.
I'd recommend just get a 250 like the new ninja as its sporty looking got a bit of poke or an older 400, keep it for a couple of years save the rest of the money and when he's got his full license invest in something newer...
My personal opinion anyway!
The insurance will be the killer.
If he wants a big bike and restricts it, not only is it pointless having the extra power as you cant use it due to the restriction but itll just rape you on insurance.
I'd recommend just get a 250 like the new ninja as its sporty looking got a bit of poke or an older 400, keep it for a couple of years save the rest of the money and when he's got his full license invest in something newer...
My personal opinion anyway!
I have just done the restricted test a few months back. This is what my training cost (bear in mind I didn't need too much training as I'd already been riding a year)
4 x 3 hour lessons
1 hour before practical test
Practical test
Bike hire
£350
Theory is £30 but your son would need a CBT first. I paid £80 just over a year ago.
I was thinking of going down the 4/600 route (but insurance meant I couldn't but with your budget you should have no problems at all) but in the end went with a 250. Its called a Yamaha Zeal and has a claimed 40hp but as its quite old now I would be surprised if it has more than 33hp at the wheel. Another reason I didn't have a restricted bike is because I would always want the restrictor out (its quite unlikely you will get caught but if you do its classed as no licence and insurance).
I was thinking of going down the 4/600 route (but insurance meant I couldn't but with that budget you should have no problems at all) but in the end went with a 250. Its called a Yamaha Zeal and has a claimed 40hp but as its quite old now I would be surprised if it has more than 33hp at the wheel. Another reason I didn't have a restricted bike is because I would always want the restrictor out.
Regarding insurance its ALOT cheaper than a car. At the moment I'm riding a bike that will do 0-60 in just over 6 seconds and will probably do 110mph if you could find a road long enough. I'm paying £300 TPFT. My mate with a 1.2 Clio (same age but no NCD whereas I have 1 year) is currently paying nearly £3000 TPFT and performance wise the bikes alot quicker.
Also, don't wait untill your sons 21 as I went to my training school to say hello today and they said the DAS (so you can jump on any bike) age is going up to 25.
Thanks, Carl
4 x 3 hour lessons
1 hour before practical test
Practical test
Bike hire
£350
Theory is £30 but your son would need a CBT first. I paid £80 just over a year ago.
I was thinking of going down the 4/600 route (but insurance meant I couldn't but with your budget you should have no problems at all) but in the end went with a 250. Its called a Yamaha Zeal and has a claimed 40hp but as its quite old now I would be surprised if it has more than 33hp at the wheel. Another reason I didn't have a restricted bike is because I would always want the restrictor out (its quite unlikely you will get caught but if you do its classed as no licence and insurance).
I was thinking of going down the 4/600 route (but insurance meant I couldn't but with that budget you should have no problems at all) but in the end went with a 250. Its called a Yamaha Zeal and has a claimed 40hp but as its quite old now I would be surprised if it has more than 33hp at the wheel. Another reason I didn't have a restricted bike is because I would always want the restrictor out.
Regarding insurance its ALOT cheaper than a car. At the moment I'm riding a bike that will do 0-60 in just over 6 seconds and will probably do 110mph if you could find a road long enough. I'm paying £300 TPFT. My mate with a 1.2 Clio (same age but no NCD whereas I have 1 year) is currently paying nearly £3000 TPFT and performance wise the bikes alot quicker.
Also, don't wait untill your sons 21 as I went to my training school to say hello today and they said the DAS (so you can jump on any bike) age is going up to 25.
Thanks, Carl
The age limit isn't coming into play yet. (i dont think)
But dont take thas as gospel.
http://www.dsa.gov.uk/Category.asp?cat=405
thats the new test info for DAS.
I heard a rumour they wanted to change the age to 28 but decided to bring it to 25 inline with the european union or somethign along those lines
But dont take thas as gospel.
http://www.dsa.gov.uk/Category.asp?cat=405
thats the new test info for DAS.
I heard a rumour they wanted to change the age to 28 but decided to bring it to 25 inline with the european union or somethign along those lines
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