Canadian GP aftermath: F1 rules?

[Rob P]

What do the rules state can be done in a situation similar to the pit lane events at the Canadian GP?

Do the cars have to "line up", if so why did two cars end up next to each other? Can they "race" off the mark when exiting the pit lane when the lights go green? This is what would have happened if the incident didnt occur surely?

Could Hamilton have within his rights pulled up next to Raki?

Please dont let this turn into another argument, lets just discuss the rules??!

[MrKipling43]

Rob P said:

Do the cars have to "line up", if so why did two cars end up next to each other?

I don't think it's illegal to line up abreast at the pitlane exit, especially in a situation like that where one of them was released almost into the other car only for them to encounter a red light before they could sort themselves out.

Rob P said:

Can they "race" off the mark when exiting the pit lane when the lights go green? This is what would have happened if the incident didnt occur surely?

Yep, they could race off the line - green lights mean you can race.

Rob P said:

Could Hamilton have within his rights pulled up next to Raki?

If he hadn't been too busy picking his bumhole to notice a red light and could have stopped in time then probably yeah. But, he wouldn't want to because the pitlane narrows soon after the line and he'd end up having to back off to let Kimi and Robert through and probably Rosberg too.

[ganglandboss]

Shirley as they were under safety car conditions, they cannot 'race' anywhere and therefore they would have to line up in the order they left their pit?

[Derek Smith]

Mansell was once black-flagged after a marshall waved him out of the pitlane (in Spain?) against the red light.

[Rob P]

ganglandboss said:

Shirley as they were under safety car conditions, they cannot 'race' anywhere and therefore they would have to line up in the order they left their pit?

Exactly, but what order if they are literally running alongside?!

[Rob P]

MrKipling43 said:

If he hadn't been too busy picking his bumhole to notice a red light and could have stopped in time then probably yeah. But, he wouldn't want to because the pitlane narrows soon after the line and he'd end up having to back off to let Kimi and Robert through and probably Rosberg too.

So you think they could have lines up and launched off technically? Maybe that was what Lewis was trying to do anyway when he dived to the left admittedly in vain?

Trying to find some detailed FIA rules via Google....

[ganglandboss]

Rob P said:

ganglandboss said:

Shirley as they were under safety car conditions, they cannot 'race' anywhere and therefore they would have to line up in the order they left their pit?

Exactly, but what order if they are literally running alongside?!

In order for that to happen though, wouldn't the car in the furthest back pit have to leave first and the furthest car along leave as he was passing? I would guess the front car would have to let the rear car go as he has already left his pit.

[Martin Keene]

PW said:

Rob P said:

What do the rules state can be done in a situation similar to the pit lane events at the Canadian GP?

Whilst it should be the driver's responsibility to ensure that they know and follow the rules and regulations of the sport, including red lights at the end of the pit lane, it does seem odd that this is the 3rd Canadian GP to feature this problem;

2005 - Juan Pablo Montoya
2007 - Felipe Massa, Giancarlo Fisichella
2008 - Hamilton and Rosberg would have been DQ'd had there not been a Ferrari in the way...

The current pit-stop/ safety car rules do seem to be ill-considered, as "innocent" drivers can be severely punished because someone else crashed at the "wrong" moment - you might as well have the race directors/stewards throwing dice to see who should get a stop-go penalty.

It does seem odd that more people fall foul of the red light rule in Canada than anywhere else. Sure Canada seems to bring more safety cars than anywhere else, but it appears to be the only track where people run the lights.

[anonymous-user]

Not that odd. The pit entry is before the final chicane; pit exit into turn two, so the pit lane short circuits quite a chunk of the track proper. Coming in from the front of the train and having a good pit-stop can easily be quicker than the entire train parading through the final chicane, pit straight and turn one. That's a fairly unique situation to Canada. On most (all?) other tracks the safety car and all other cars will be clear of the pit exit by the time the pit-stopping-cars are on their way.

[Mr_Thyroid]

At what point does it become illegal to pass under safety car conditions?

Clearly when a car is stationary in the pit box you can pass it, but if it is accelerating away and is at 40kph the moment you pass and you are doing the 80kph limit is that still legal?

Kubica gets very fractionally in front as Kimi pulls away but as they ease up to the lights Kimi clearly edges into the lead so who should lead out of the pits??


and on a slightly pedantic point I thought it was illegal to reverse in the pit lane - if so Rosberg should have been disqualified for the metre or so he went backwards.

[Plug550]

With all due respect to the original poster, and this thread does indeed throw up some interesting questions, but it also highlights just how controled the sport has now become. Does it not show just how insane the modern rules are - When can you, or can you not race? Should one be disqualified for reversing a metre? Who's responsibily is it to wave a car out of the pit box? When is the pit open, when is it closed? Who is a foot further foward than the next guy. Who should be penalised, who should get a medal? Etc, etc, etc....

What wrong with just switching the lights off, and the first one to the chequered flag wins? That's what it used to be like. Long, long ago, when I were a lad.

[FourWheelDrift]

The pit exit lights are on the right and from the on board camera look as if they are unsighted by pit wall obstructions until you get quite close. If they had them on both sides of the exit there would be no problems.

[superkartracer]

FourWheelDrift said:

The pit exit lights are on the right and from the on board camera look as if they are unsighted by pit wall obstructions until you get quite close. If they had them on both sides of the exit there would be no problems.

The others seemed to see them?

[ganglandboss]

superkartracer said:

FourWheelDrift said:

The pit exit lights are on the right and from the on board camera look as if they are unsighted by pit wall obstructions until you get quite close. If they had them on both sides of the exit there would be no problems.

The others seemed to see them?

And the Ferrari in front wasn't hid by a wall!

[anonymous-user]

The others had to pull up by the line. Hamilton/Rosberg needed to pull up several metres behind that, therefore needed to see the light several metres earlier. If they could not, they would not be able to stop behind the already stationary cars. Not making excuses for their mistake, but one light that could be obscured seems a little inadequate given the hindsight of what happened. Another on the other side of pit exit or repeaters along the pit wall would (should) avoid a repeat in future.

[superkartracer]

So you think they spend millions on a pitlane and only assume one car needs to see the light? and only one car will ever be parked there, the other clue was Kimi and ros were not moving and another would be the team telling him about the red light, also he knows the rules for sure.

[MrKipling43]

Something from the sporting regs...

FIA said:

When cars are permitted to leave the pit lane they must do so in the order they arrived at the end of
the pit lane unless another car is unduly delayed. At all times drivers must follow the directions of the
marshals.

Presumably a longer pitstop constitutes 'undue delay'.

There's nothing about racing off the line at the end of the pitlane, although presumably whomever got theri nose ahead first would get the advantage.

[Rob P]

MrKipling43 said:

Something from the sporting regs...

FIA said:

When cars are permitted to leave the pit lane they must do so in the order they arrived at the end of
the pit lane unless another car is unduly delayed. At all times drivers must follow the directions of the
marshals.

Presumably a longer pitstop constitutes 'undue delay'.

There's nothing about racing off the line at the end of the pitlane, although presumably whomever got theri nose ahead first would get the advantage.

Holy st thats open to opinion! What a crazy rule IMO. Let them fight over the space and roar out of the pitlane, proper racing

[Exige46]

I think the last two posts are reading 'beginning of the pitlane' for 'end of the pitlane'. Whoever gets to the exit of the pitlane first leaves the pitlane first. An extra long pitstop is before the end of the pitlane and irrelevant to the rule.

Rob P said:

MrKipling43 said:

Something from the sporting regs...

FIA said:

When cars are permitted to leave the pit lane they must do so in the order they arrived at the end of
the pit lane unless another car is unduly delayed. At all times drivers must follow the directions of the
marshals.

Presumably a longer pitstop constitutes 'undue delay'.

There's nothing about racing off the line at the end of the pitlane, although presumably whomever got theri nose ahead first would get the advantage.

Holy st thats open to opinion! What a crazy rule IMO. Let them fight over the space and roar out of the pitlane, proper racing

[Mr_Thyroid]

Plug550 said:

With all due respect to the original poster, and this thread does indeed throw up some interesting questions, but it also highlights just how controled the sport has now become. Does it not show just how insane the modern rules are - When can you, or can you not race? Should one be disqualified for reversing a metre? Who's responsibily is it to wave a car out of the pit box? When is the pit open, when is it closed? Who is a foot further foward than the next guy. Who should be penalised, who should get a medal? Etc, etc, etc....

What wrong with just switching the lights off, and the first one to the chequered flag wins? That's what it used to be like. Long, long ago, when I were a lad.

Maybe next year if the new aero regulations work out we will be talking about the racing rather than the rules.