S1 Honda/Audi depreciation

[edb49]

I'd be interested to hear thoughts on depreciation for engine-swap cars, as I'm trying to work out if it makes sense to buy a car and get it converted.

A rough budget:
Basic S1: £7k
Engine swap: £10k
Suspension/brakes/tyres/tidy: £5k

That's £22k to build a decent engine swap car. The question is, let's say I tried to sell the day after it was finished, how much would I get for it? Is there a rule of thumb e.g. value of basic S1 plus X% of addons?

Thanks

[Shnozz]

too few examples to really set a precedent. Stu Malt's car was a belting S1 NA Honda and was up at £19k for a long time without selling. Its now sold I believe, at what price I dont know.

From what I have seen I would expect a good spec NA S1 with decent nitrons, brakes et al sorted to be worth around £18k, SC around £22k. S2 add £2k-£3k to those prices.

[edb49]

It's not unheard of for engine swap cars to change hands in the 14s and 15s though too. Seems to be a large range of prices.

[bogie]

for general mods, people used to use the old rule and take the base car price + 50% price of mods, but with engine conversions its more like 80% of the conversion cost and 50% of other stuff + base car ...it all really depends on the individual car, the state of the market i.e are the 5 cars for sale at the same time, and the buyer/seller obviously

[Paul RN]

Seeing what sells, it seems to be the total cost - 25% However problem is the market at the moment as everyones holding on to any savings.

[Scuffers]

seems odd to me that nobody ever mentions what state the car is in?

at the end of the day, a shed + a £10K converstion is still going to be a shed, and thus worth shed money.

on the other hand a pristine example +£10K coverstion is going to be worth decent car money.

the ones that have sold to date have demostrated this, with S1 Honda's going for anything from £14K to £25K.. it really is a case of you get what you pay for...

[kambites]

His 5k can do a lot of changing the state of the car though. Once you've rebuilt the suspension and steering; and replaced the engine and drive train there's not much left really...

[edb49]

I haven't seen any Honda/Audi sheds around... everyone seems to get a decent amount of work done at the same time as the engine swap. They seem to be from above average to bloody fantastic.

[Shnozz]

I think you are being somewhat optimistic with the prices to be honest. The only "cheap" converted cars I have seen have been cheap for a reason; DIY conversions, poor paintwork, basic spec suspension/brakes etc (yes, in the majority of cases these have been upgraded but occasionally there are those without..).

If you are after a link-up kitted car, with a decent spec on the remainder of the car, together with good paintwork etc, I think you'd be very lucky to pick up a bargain, regardless of the small market that may be interested in such a modified example.

If you are prepared to go with a non-link-up car, or but in a bit of hard graft on paintwork etc yourself, there are some good deals out there.

[edb49]

The problem I am having is expectation creep. I'll want 300bhp anyway, so might just save up and wait for one of those to come along.

[bogie]

edb49 said:

The problem I am having is expectation creep. I'll want 300bhp anyway, so might just save up and wait for one of those to come along.

a guy called Pley sold his SC Honda recently, it was a very nice car, S2 based and went for £25K ...i think for a road going car, if it had every mod you could imagine , to your taste, you would be looking at £35K for a mint one


just remember...as has been said before, if something is cheap, its cheap for a reason......

[edb49]

What I'm looking for is either a 300bhp Audi S1 or S/C Honda S1, suspension and brakes sorted, and some sticky tyres. Not too bothered about paint condition or interior. I'm hoping something will come up in the next few months that meets those criteria and I can get change from £20k. I don't think I'm being unrealistic... am I?

[bogie]

£20K would get you a nice NA Honda or 250bhp Audi for sure, but the 300+ cars are more, the conversions cost a few grand more, and generally owners of such cars have spent even more on the interiors or paint....you dont get many crap cars with £15K of engine conversion in them ...usually its the last thing to be done, to a mint car

[slatess1]

bogie said:

£20K would get you a nice NA Honda or 250bhp Audi for sure, but the 300+ cars are more, the conversions cost a few grand more, and generally owners of such cars have spent even more on the interiors or paint....you dont get many crap cars with £15K of engine conversion in them ...usually its the last thing to be done, to a mint car

I know bogie had rather a special honda conversion in his s2, ive just had a sc honda fitted to my s1 exige with pretty much every extra going plus roll cage (had 4 pots, nitrons and tyres sorted too) along some other bits etc and that cost me 19k on top of the cost of the car... i think 30-35k for a fully sorted one with everything done to it in mint condition is the right area for 300bhp+

[edb49]

I must admit £20k for a "standard" NA Honda or 260 Audi would be too expensive in my eyes, it would have to be amazing for that price with just about everything conceivable done to it. As has been pointed out, there was a Silver NA Honda on here for ages at £18.5k that had a really good spec.

[slatess1]

edb49 said:

I must admit £20k for a "standard" NA Honda or 260 Audi would be too expensive in my eyes, it would have to be amazing for that price with just about everything conceivable done to it. As has been pointed out, there was a Silver NA Honda on here for ages at £18.5k that had a really good spec.

I guess it comes down to how much each person thinks a car is worth at the end of the day based on spec and condition, and also which models you prefer as some go for higher prices, s1 exige for example is still selling for around 18-23k in its original form with low mileage that ive seen

[edb49]

Yep, I've seen that Exiges carry quite a big premium over a similar Elise. I'm not after an Exige though

[slatess1]

edb49 said:

Yep, I've seen that Exiges carry quite a big premium over a similar Elise. I'm not after an Exige though

Thats fair enough, im sure most of the chaps would tell you on here if you fully sort an elise and an exige with tyres, suspension, geo & engine etc etc then the difference would be marginal, dependant then on driver ability.

im still learning to drive mine after two years of ownership

[LivinLaVidaLotus]

edb49 said:

What I'm looking for is either a 300bhp Audi S1 or S/C Honda S1, suspension and brakes sorted, and some sticky tyres. Not too bothered about paint condition or interior. I'm hoping something will come up in the next few months that meets those criteria and I can get change from £20k. I don't think I'm being unrealistic... am I?

Yes, I think £20k for such a spec is being unrealistic, we're not talking oversold bandwidth here, we're talking about something that has cost many £1000s and can only be sold once

If you look at the market, 111Rs are going for around £20k. Even taking in to account that a decent S1 is going to be maybe £10k, I don't think you're going to get a car that's had £15-20k+ spent on it, for under £20k. As others have said, a good conversion is going to have been around £15k for 300bhp, without any suspension upgrades, brakes etc.

[edb49]

OK, so can someone explain to me:

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/551561.htm
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/559332.htm

Two Hondas that are up for £16k. Is it unrealistic to expect similar cars but with a supercharger and get change from £20k? I thought that a S/C was a £3k upgrade, so both of those cars could be upgraded and you would have spent ~£19k.