Discussion
What car are they for? If they are for the S1 and for the use you described then Nitron.
S2 I would still say Nitron.
I personally use Blistein from the S2 for my S1 cars. They are cheap and very good in general. If you use Nitrons, remember they do need servicing even if you just do road. Bit of overkill if is just road.
Ohlins are a great unit but I think you need to be racing to really need these.
francelise
S2 I would still say Nitron.
I personally use Blistein from the S2 for my S1 cars. They are cheap and very good in general. If you use Nitrons, remember they do need servicing even if you just do road. Bit of overkill if is just road.
Ohlins are a great unit but I think you need to be racing to really need these.
francelise
Edited by Francelise on Thursday 12th June 07:15
They are both very good dampers.
Realistically, for road & track day use:
a) Are you a good enough driver (and skilled enough at chassis set-up) for it to make a ?
b) Does it really matter, given that at best the difference might be a couple of 10ths of a second a lap and that track days are not competitive?
If you can genuinely answer 'yes' to both the above questions, buy a set of 4-way adjustable Penske dampers made to your own valve spec.
If not, it's mainly down to bragging rights at the pub. Ohlins are more expensive, therefore carry more kudos than Nitrons which in turn carry more kudos than S2 Bilsteins, which are still a perfectly acceptable damper for most people's needs and skill level...
Realistically, for road & track day use:
a) Are you a good enough driver (and skilled enough at chassis set-up) for it to make a ?
b) Does it really matter, given that at best the difference might be a couple of 10ths of a second a lap and that track days are not competitive?
If you can genuinely answer 'yes' to both the above questions, buy a set of 4-way adjustable Penske dampers made to your own valve spec.
If not, it's mainly down to bragging rights at the pub. Ohlins are more expensive, therefore carry more kudos than Nitrons which in turn carry more kudos than S2 Bilsteins, which are still a perfectly acceptable damper for most people's needs and skill level...
Sam_68 said:
They are both very good dampers.
Realistically, for road & track day use:
a) Are you a good enough driver (and skilled enough at chassis set-up) for it to make a ?
b) Does it really matter, given that at best the difference might be a couple of 10ths of a second a lap and that track days are not competitive?
If you can genuinely answer 'yes' to both the above questions, buy a set of 4-way adjustable Penske dampers made to your own valve spec.
If not, it's mainly down to bragging rights at the pub. Ohlins are more expensive, therefore carry more kudos than Nitrons which in turn carry more kudos than S2 Bilsteins, which are still a perfectly acceptable damper for most people's needs and skill level...
How do Ohlins carry more kudos than Nitron when it's Nitron dampers getting all the results?Realistically, for road & track day use:
a) Are you a good enough driver (and skilled enough at chassis set-up) for it to make a ?
b) Does it really matter, given that at best the difference might be a couple of 10ths of a second a lap and that track days are not competitive?
If you can genuinely answer 'yes' to both the above questions, buy a set of 4-way adjustable Penske dampers made to your own valve spec.
If not, it's mainly down to bragging rights at the pub. Ohlins are more expensive, therefore carry more kudos than Nitrons which in turn carry more kudos than S2 Bilsteins, which are still a perfectly acceptable damper for most people's needs and skill level...
The honest truth is than Bilstien are an excellent OEM dampers but a way off bespoke race dampers. The 36mm Ohlin is s
t but the proper race Ohlins are excellent as are Nitrons, Penske, Quantum etc etc. The real difference between proper adjustable dampers out there for Elises is development and the nitron's have had the lion's share of this.randy said:
Sam_68 said:
They are both very good dampers.
Realistically, for road & track day use:
a) Are you a good enough driver (and skilled enough at chassis set-up) for it to make a ?
b) Does it really matter, given that at best the difference might be a couple of 10ths of a second a lap and that track days are not competitive?
If you can genuinely answer 'yes' to both the above questions, buy a set of 4-way adjustable Penske dampers made to your own valve spec.
If not, it's mainly down to bragging rights at the pub. Ohlins are more expensive, therefore carry more kudos than Nitrons which in turn carry more kudos than S2 Bilsteins, which are still a perfectly acceptable damper for most people's needs and skill level...
How do Ohlins carry more kudos than Nitron when it's Nitron dampers getting all the results?Realistically, for road & track day use:
a) Are you a good enough driver (and skilled enough at chassis set-up) for it to make a ?
b) Does it really matter, given that at best the difference might be a couple of 10ths of a second a lap and that track days are not competitive?
If you can genuinely answer 'yes' to both the above questions, buy a set of 4-way adjustable Penske dampers made to your own valve spec.
If not, it's mainly down to bragging rights at the pub. Ohlins are more expensive, therefore carry more kudos than Nitrons which in turn carry more kudos than S2 Bilsteins, which are still a perfectly acceptable damper for most people's needs and skill level...
The honest truth is than Bilstien are an excellent OEM dampers but a way off bespoke race dampers. The 36mm Ohlin is s
t but the proper race Ohlins are excellent as are Nitrons, Penske, Quantum etc etc. The real difference between proper adjustable dampers out there for Elises is development and the nitron's have had the lion's share of this.Also lotus sport use ohlins.
Gooby said:
Though disagreeing with randy is not something I would recommend, my opinion is that it depends on the car. The yota powered cars seem to do better on ohlins.
Also lotus sport use ohlins.
have you ever considered why that is? (hint, cause they pay sod all for them and no other make would go down to that level of pricing - also why Ohlins went with the 36mm damper for them, they are cheaper to make)Also lotus sport use ohlins.
randy said:
How do Ohlins carry more kudos than Nitron when it's Nitron dampers getting all the results?
Because they cost more, and since there's no real technical justification for that level of sophistication for road/track day use, you're mainly after the right to say 'I'm considerably richer than yow'randy said:
The honest truth is than Bilstien are an excellent OEM dampers but a way off bespoke race dampers.
Yes, I agree totally. And I can see the desire to have dampers that are at least adjustable, for track day use, if only to learn about their effects.But to get the best from high quality multi-adjustable dampers - enouigh to make the difference between the brands important - you need to know what you're doing. Let's be honest, unless you are chasing the last fraction of a second per lap in direct competition with other cars, all most people really want from adjustable dampers is to be able to stiffen the car up for track use and soften it off for road use... and maybe to be able to stiffen one end in relation to the other to tune the handling balance.
...and if you know enough to need more than that from your dampers, to be blunt, you don't need to be asking for a concensus of opinion on an internet forum to help you choose.
Scuffers said:
Gooby said:
Though disagreeing with randy is not something I would recommend, my opinion is that it depends on the car. The yota powered cars seem to do better on ohlins.
Also lotus sport use ohlins.
have you ever considered why that is? (hint, cause they pay sod all for them and no other make would go down to that level of pricing - also why Ohlins went with the 36mm damper for them, they are cheaper to make)Also lotus sport use ohlins.
What is your point? My point is that they work well. I did not specify size, my 2 way 36mm valved for a 240R work superbly, they are perfect for my intended use and the larger versions work even better.
I think it's possible to discern the diffenence between dampers without being a Senna behind the wheel. As for asking for others opinion, most poeple on here are commited and pretty knowledgeable so I don't think it's a crime to seek the opinion of others in that context. Lets face it most of us aren't going to do a head to head so I just wanted to gather a few well informed opinions.
If you did back-to-back tests of an Ohlins equipped car versus an otherwise identical Nitron equipped car, set to similar stiffness, you might well be able to discern the difference. If you're really good, you might even be able to say within a few laps which you preferred the feel of.
Put 99% of drivers (myself included for sure, and I consider myself a Suspension Geek) into an Elise without telling them which dampers were fitted and ask them to tell you whether it was Ohlins or Nitrons equipped, they'd be reduced to random guesswork, in all honesty.
They are both very good dampers, and if you can afford to fit either, I'm sure you'll be more than happy with them... provided the dampers are adjusted and the car is set up correctly.
Put 99% of drivers (myself included for sure, and I consider myself a Suspension Geek) into an Elise without telling them which dampers were fitted and ask them to tell you whether it was Ohlins or Nitrons equipped, they'd be reduced to random guesswork, in all honesty.
They are both very good dampers, and if you can afford to fit either, I'm sure you'll be more than happy with them... provided the dampers are adjusted and the car is set up correctly.
Sam_68 said:
If you did back-to-back tests of an Ohlins equipped car versus an otherwise identical Nitron equipped car, set to similar stiffness, you might well be able to discern the difference. If you're really good, you might even be able to say within a few laps which you preferred the feel of.
sorry, whist that might be the case for you, some of us can easily tell the difference between dampers...why?
easy, different makes have different basic charicteristics, and as a driver, it's relatively easy to work out which is which, as to which is better is another matter....
as for the cheap lotus Ohlins, I can demostrate the difference, just takes me 10+ laps to do it (when they will have heated up way faster than the proper versions).
what I don't get is the Lotus Fan-boys going on about how good they are when they cleary have no idea if they are good/bad/indiferent, and when you factor in what you the end user is paying for this, they just don't make sence on any level.
Scuffers said:
easy, different makes have different basic charicteristics, and as a driver, it's relatively easy to work out which is which, as to which is better is another matter....
This looks like a question for you then, Scuffers. Enlighten us as to the different basic characteristics between Nitrons and Ohlins?Sam_68 said:
Scuffers said:
easy, different makes have different basic charicteristics, and as a driver, it's relatively easy to work out which is which, as to which is better is another matter....
This looks like a question for you then, Scuffers. Enlighten us as to the different basic characteristics between Nitrons and Ohlins?it's all about feel, and no, I can't put that into words (if I could I would be a rich man I suspect!)
From a complete numpties point of view:
I'd been running around on original konis on my S1 and was aware that they needed to be renewed.
Last December I did my first track day and spent a fair bit of time spinning around(driver error). In January I did a wet day at the same track and spent the morning spinning and the afternoon staying on the track (getting better). In February I had a third day at the same track but now had Nitrons fitted to the car. Erm....suddenly I was keeping up with other cars - in fact I was even overtaking some and I even had a couple of cars blue flagged for me!!! And I stayed on the track all day.
Obviously my driving had come on a bit but the car was on another level in terms of how it felt, how I could feel it and react to it, how much more planted it felt and how much more grip I could get out of the tyres.
On the way to and from the track (300 miles each way) I didn't feel uncomfortable either despite the much stiffer springs than oe.
All in all I reckon the Nitrons have made a massive difference to my car and I doubt spending twice the amount on more power would have got me round the track faster.
I'd been running around on original konis on my S1 and was aware that they needed to be renewed.
Last December I did my first track day and spent a fair bit of time spinning around(driver error). In January I did a wet day at the same track and spent the morning spinning and the afternoon staying on the track (getting better). In February I had a third day at the same track but now had Nitrons fitted to the car. Erm....suddenly I was keeping up with other cars - in fact I was even overtaking some and I even had a couple of cars blue flagged for me!!! And I stayed on the track all day.
Obviously my driving had come on a bit but the car was on another level in terms of how it felt, how I could feel it and react to it, how much more planted it felt and how much more grip I could get out of the tyres.
On the way to and from the track (300 miles each way) I didn't feel uncomfortable either despite the much stiffer springs than oe.
All in all I reckon the Nitrons have made a massive difference to my car and I doubt spending twice the amount on more power would have got me round the track faster.
Scuffers said:
Sam_68 said:
If you did back-to-back tests of an Ohlins equipped car versus an otherwise identical Nitron equipped car, set to similar stiffness, you might well be able to discern the difference. If you're really good, you might even be able to say within a few laps which you preferred the feel of.
sorry, whist that might be the case for you, some of us can easily tell the difference between dampers...why?
easy, different makes have different basic charicteristics, and as a driver, it's relatively easy to work out which is which, as to which is better is another matter....
as for the cheap lotus Ohlins, I can demostrate the difference, just takes me 10+ laps to do it (when they will have heated up way faster than the proper versions).
what I don't get is the Lotus Fan-boys going on about how good they are when they cleary have no idea if they are good/bad/indiferent, and when you factor in what you the end user is paying for this, they just don't make sence on any level.
It is not all about "the track" and that is an incredibly blinkered point of view and one that utterly fails to see what an elise is used for.
As for a "lotus Fan-boy", you are serious? Yes I am a fan of Lotus - big time. That is why I am here. Why are you here because it seems that your posts are incredibly critical of lotus in every way. It may be the way I read them.
Once again we are back to scuffers being the engineering "savant". A "cul-de-sack" of knowledge of a neich aspect of a neich product and blinkered to everything else.
Because I am not in the LoT race series and because I do not race endurance in my lotus does not make my opinion worthless. Yes I do know a little about the characteristics of Nitrons and Ohlins. Yes it does come down to individual preference and feel and my ohlins work very well and feel great. They work well on a yota powered car, especially when that is what they were designed to do and I had them set up by people who know how to set up ohlins. Who also says that he would choose ohlins over nitrons, anytime.
They work really well on the road and on the track.
To the OP. If you are using your car for a mixture of road and track, the ohlins are pricey but superb. Lotus sport use them and they work very well (contrary to the miserable Scuffers, Lotus sport do know more than a little about setting up cars and have been doing it for a little while, quite successfully). It is a personal preference and it is easy to try a car with nitrons because they are cheaper and many cars have them. I am sure that someone with nitrons will let you expreience them (as they did me). If you want to spend hours chatting spring rates then nitrons are probably your bag. If you want a shock that works really well, that you can tighten up for each track and then loosen off for the drive home, then try the ohlins.
I am also interested in the differences between Nitrons and Ohlins as I am after some for my Europa. I would guess that the difference is small and in most cases not worth the extra cash. However if anyone has just bought a set of either and lives near Oxford I will put them on the dyno FOC and do a bit of a report on each. I have worked on dampers for many years on race cars and work with true damper nuts who spend all their time tuning them so we should be able to do a reasonable job. As a bit of a plus I should be able to balance the dampers so that they are the same left to right, and not they don't always come like this.
There are some cleaver things you can put on dampers which we should be able to feel, I just don't know if either Nitrons or Ohlins are doing them.
cheers
C43
There are some cleaver things you can put on dampers which we should be able to feel, I just don't know if either Nitrons or Ohlins are doing them.
cheers
C43
Gooby said:
If you want a shock that works really well, that you can tighten up for each track and then loosen off for the drive home, then try the ohlins.
Forgive the lack of knowledge here but don't ohlins etc use the same sort of method for changing charateristrics - knobs with clicks? So wouldn't job numpty (me) change from track to road in the same way - click, clikc, click, job done? Or is there something that I've missed?Thanks
Miles
miles_stylus said:
don't ohlins etc use the same sort of method for changing charateristrics - knobs with clicks?
Yes most/all single way adjustable dampers have a single clicker you wind (+) more damping rate or (-) less damping rate. Things to consider when selecting a damper; Your driving style, spring rate range the valving will cope with, manufacturers Lotus experience, single tube or twin tube, air or inert gas, bump/rebound ratio, bump & rebound or rebound only adjustment. If you dont understand these terms, then please look them up bacause based on the contents of this thread (LOL) no informed buying decisons will be made.
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