Best 3 grand kit cars?
Discussion
I'm looking at buying a kit car and want to spend around £3000. I know this limits my options but I was after some advice/opinions.
It would seem, from browsing ebay/classifieds, that my choices are pretty much some breed of dutton, a slyva leader or a robin hood. I also quite fancy this; http://pistonheads.com/sales/524810.htm although I don't know much about them.
It would seem, from browsing ebay/classifieds, that my choices are pretty much some breed of dutton, a slyva leader or a robin hood. I also quite fancy this; http://pistonheads.com/sales/524810.htm although I don't know much about them.
Lots to choose from. Although you seem to be hitting the Sevens there are many more bodystyles available in or around that sort of money.
Some will require little if any work to use as is, others will need a lot more. Depends what you want out of the car and what plans you've got for it
Some will require little if any work to use as is, others will need a lot more. Depends what you want out of the car and what plans you've got for it
I'm after that something that handles well and is quick (or feels quick - the more important thing!). It'll mainly be a weekend toy although I'll drive it work on the days I can't face the walk! I probably won't track it unless I finally make the nurburgring trip I've been threatening for years.
Practicality is fairly unimportant although some kind of wet weather gear would be a bonus. I'm not too fussed about looks; seven style or other is fine. I'm not the worlds greatest mechanic so I'd rather something that was pretty much ready to go.
Practicality is fairly unimportant although some kind of wet weather gear would be a bonus. I'm not too fussed about looks; seven style or other is fine. I'm not the worlds greatest mechanic so I'd rather something that was pretty much ready to go.
Anything you look at and end up buying will need work at some point or other.
It's worth going into it eyes open so to speak, so if you dont want to get involved yourself, buy something that still has a spares network that you can get hold of parts fairly easily for not much money. There's nothing worse than having something break and be waiting for another owner to take the bit you need off their car before you can get yours running again.
Ebay or a forum of other owners is usually a good bet for second hand parts. A lot of kits are based around older Fords/Rovers etc and some motor factors are still supplying new old stock
Sounds like a Seven'esque car would suit you fairly well, but just be aware that not all of them come with wet weather gear. Some of those I've seen, the wet weather gear isnt all that great, so you'll also need either a decent car cover or a garage.
You're probably not going to get Caterham type handling and acceleration from say a Dutton, but it's not what the cars about. Would definately be fun to own though
It's worth going into it eyes open so to speak, so if you dont want to get involved yourself, buy something that still has a spares network that you can get hold of parts fairly easily for not much money. There's nothing worse than having something break and be waiting for another owner to take the bit you need off their car before you can get yours running again.
Ebay or a forum of other owners is usually a good bet for second hand parts. A lot of kits are based around older Fords/Rovers etc and some motor factors are still supplying new old stock
Sounds like a Seven'esque car would suit you fairly well, but just be aware that not all of them come with wet weather gear. Some of those I've seen, the wet weather gear isnt all that great, so you'll also need either a decent car cover or a garage.
You're probably not going to get Caterham type handling and acceleration from say a Dutton, but it's not what the cars about. Would definately be fun to own though
Two cars spring to mind, both of which can probably be had for somewhat under £3k (one definitely can...)
GTM Rossa K3. Mid-engined, RWD. K-series powered. Don't know a huge amount abouth them, but always fancied one.
Sylva Leader. A significant step up from most of the Duttons dynamically, but the same sort of price, if not cheaper still. Unfortunately it shares the Phaetons 'styling' (and I use the word lightly), but the chassis on the later cars is very similar to the early Sylva Striker's, they're also significantly lighter than the 'forementioned competitor. I bought mine complete with a breathed-on 1800 Fiat Twin cam, spare engine and recent rebuild for £1,400. I subsequently sold it when I ran out of garage space and I now really wish I hadn't. Some new dampers were all that was needed to make an excellent track car.
You may also be able to get a basic-spec Locost for not much more.
GTM Rossa K3. Mid-engined, RWD. K-series powered. Don't know a huge amount abouth them, but always fancied one.
Sylva Leader. A significant step up from most of the Duttons dynamically, but the same sort of price, if not cheaper still. Unfortunately it shares the Phaetons 'styling' (and I use the word lightly), but the chassis on the later cars is very similar to the early Sylva Striker's, they're also significantly lighter than the 'forementioned competitor. I bought mine complete with a breathed-on 1800 Fiat Twin cam, spare engine and recent rebuild for £1,400. I subsequently sold it when I ran out of garage space and I now really wish I hadn't. Some new dampers were all that was needed to make an excellent track car.
You may also be able to get a basic-spec Locost for not much more.
Thanks for the ideas.
I never really fancied the GTM; I think it'll be a bit too much like my old mk1 mr2 (not a bad thing, just want something a bit different). I think the slyva is favourite at the moment but there doesn't seem to be many of them about - there's one in the classifieds but that's the only one I can find. Any opinions on the vindicator sprint?
I never really fancied the GTM; I think it'll be a bit too much like my old mk1 mr2 (not a bad thing, just want something a bit different). I think the slyva is favourite at the moment but there doesn't seem to be many of them about - there's one in the classifieds but that's the only one I can find. Any opinions on the vindicator sprint?
Yes, the Matra Djet used the R8 engine and was launched in 1962. The Matra M530 used a Ford V4.
I didn't realise we were talking about 'first mid-engined car to use a drivetrain package from a front engined car', though.
It's a pretty spurious claim, since it's a mere manufacturing expediency - transverse mid-engine installations are a fundamentally bad idea which have to have their worst shortcomings 'engineered out', rather that a concept to be proud of - but even if you narrow it down to 'Mini-based mid-engined sports cars', GTM wouuldn't be the first. The earliest car I know to use the idea was Nota, back in 1963. I believe one of Tom Killeen's monocoque designs used a Mini drivetrain, much earlier than GTM, too.
I think the best you can say about GTM is that they were the first manufacturer called GTM to build a Mini based mid-engined car!
I didn't realise we were talking about 'first mid-engined car to use a drivetrain package from a front engined car', though.
It's a pretty spurious claim, since it's a mere manufacturing expediency - transverse mid-engine installations are a fundamentally bad idea which have to have their worst shortcomings 'engineered out', rather that a concept to be proud of - but even if you narrow it down to 'Mini-based mid-engined sports cars', GTM wouuldn't be the first. The earliest car I know to use the idea was Nota, back in 1963. I believe one of Tom Killeen's monocoque designs used a Mini drivetrain, much earlier than GTM, too.
I think the best you can say about GTM is that they were the first manufacturer called GTM to build a Mini based mid-engined car!
Or maybe just to make a decent go of it!!!! Even my personal favourite, the Unipower faded away. 
'Tis true that the transverse engine/gearbox layout isn't ideal. However, as a cheap way of offering a mid-engined kit car it's a decent idea. Quite what excuse the mainstream manufacturers have, I'm not sure!!
'Tis true that the transverse engine/gearbox layout isn't ideal. However, as a cheap way of offering a mid-engined kit car it's a decent idea. Quite what excuse the mainstream manufacturers have, I'm not sure!!
Didn't the terrapin use a mini drive train in a mid engined chassis? That was early 60's. Not exactly a road car though!
I can only find one slyva leader for sale and the guy hasn't got back to me yet. I'm going to have a look at that vindicator on Friday; I've found mixed reviews of them so I'll have to decide for myself!
I can only find one slyva leader for sale and the guy hasn't got back to me yet. I'm going to have a look at that vindicator on Friday; I've found mixed reviews of them so I'll have to decide for myself!
hairykrishna said:
Didn't the terrapin use a mini drive train in a mid engined chassis? That was early 60's. Not exactly a road car though!
I can only find one slyva leader for sale and the guy hasn't got back to me yet. I'm going to have a look at that vindicator on Friday; I've found mixed reviews of them so I'll have to decide for myself!
Yes, the Terrapin did indeed use Mini drive train, and several people widened the 'book' chassis to create road-going 2-seaters, but I've got a copy of the first edition on the shelf beside me and it's dated 1969, so the GTM (and Unipower, Nota and Killeen) pre-date it.I can only find one slyva leader for sale and the guy hasn't got back to me yet. I'm going to have a look at that vindicator on Friday; I've found mixed reviews of them so I'll have to decide for myself!
The Vindicator had a reasonable reputation when new, but is quite a big old thing in comparison to a Sylva and is compromised by the Sierra semi-trailing arm rear suspension, which isn't ideal for a car of this sort. Obviously looks are down to personal taste, but quite lot of people find the Vindicator, erm, aesthetically challenging. Then again, the Sylva Leader and Star are a bit 'cubist' for some, too.
It's a buyers market at the moment, so if you shop around long enough and make cash offers, there's every chance you'd get a nice Crossflow engined Sylva Striker or Westfield SE within your budget. Realistically, I'd only expect to get £4K for my Sylva if I needed to shift it quickly, and mine's to quite a high engine spec.
Sam_68 said:
transverse mid-engine installations are a fundamentally bad idea which have to have their worst shortcomings 'engineered out', rather that a concept to be proud of
Didn't the Muira have a transverse engine?Sam_68 said:
I've got a copy of the first edition on the shelf beside me and it's dated 1969
I thought I was doing well with a third edition (1973)I don't think it would be possible to spend £3k on a crossflow powered Leader. I would expect anything over £2k to be a bit special. It's a shame really as they must be as good as some of the budget 'sevens and it's probably only the styling which keeps the price down. They go well, they handle well, they don't even look too bad in the flesh.
I would show you mine if I still had it. There are some shots here if that's of any interest: http://good-times.webshots.com/album/560818817VuFb...
I'd say join the Sylva Google Group and put some feelers out. I found mine there for very little money. Ebay is another place to try, but (possibly coincidentally) all the ones I saw on there were project cars. Still very worth setting up a search for them though.
I would show you mine if I still had it. There are some shots here if that's of any interest: http://good-times.webshots.com/album/560818817VuFb...
I'd say join the Sylva Google Group and put some feelers out. I found mine there for very little money. Ebay is another place to try, but (possibly coincidentally) all the ones I saw on there were project cars. Still very worth setting up a search for them though.
you should look at a UVA fugitive, I'm biased as I have one, but believe me they are great fun, yes, horrid VW beetle front beam and gearbox, but believe me, my 1.7 alfa boxer powered fugitive-4 handles like its on rails, as the flat engine creates a stupidly low C of G, and I have sorted the steering and suspension geometry......you can go for the off road look, or the low down street racer, as I have, and either way I can assure you will be well chuffed with it......no longer available new, but check ebay......best source of info is the www.fugitives.co.uk website, and look on the forum too....expect to pay around 800 to 3000ish
knighty said:
you should look at a UVA fugitive,
Did you see this thread?http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Thanks for the advice. I've joined the Slyva google group. I actually don't mind the looks of the leader; miles better than another anonymous hatchback at least! I'll be having a look around for one. If anyone happens to know of one for sale, drop me a message.
I'd never considered the UVA. I assumed that a VW buggy based car would handle dubiously on the road. I like the look of the V6 F30 that's for sale in the forum though.
I'd never considered the UVA. I assumed that a VW buggy based car would handle dubiously on the road. I like the look of the V6 F30 that's for sale in the forum though.
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